The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => CZ Gunsmithing => Topic started by: john seeley on February 13, 2021, 08:46:25 PM
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I went to take the factory rear off my P-01 and it wouldn't move. Placed the slide in a padded vice and progressed from a small hammer (with Dawson aluminum nylon tipped punch), to a carpenters hammer and then to a large ball peen hammer and it still wouldn't budge with some big wacks. (Of course I removed the set screw.)
I took extra precaution with 18 quintillion layers of masking tape and managed to still mar the sight a little, but the slide is still untouched. Do you think an overnight soak of Zep, PB or Liquid Wrench will make a difference in this case and will it hurt the polycoat?
Does anyone know of a decent low-priced sight pusher because I only plan on using it once for my P-01. I did the sights on my PCR a couple years ago and the rear sight came out right away with a couple of light wacks, but this one IS IN THERE! Thx.
EDIT: I tried hitting it out from right to left because I can see it was installed at the factory from left to right. I even tried tapping it out the other way. No dice.
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I use the NCStar sight pusher. I done 8-10 rear sights with it so far (but it is the wrong shape for Novak 1911 front sights).
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Thanks. All NCStars are the same so just look for the least expensive one? How about this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Pistol-Slides-Rear-Sight-Tool-Pusher-for-Glock-1911-SIG-Handguns/274586701694?epid=16032162872&hash=item3feea48f7e:g:vX0AAOSw~jJbT8kc
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Ncstar sight pusher has worked on all my cz rear sights. Got cheap on amazon
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Thanks. I'm going to try to wack it one more time tomorrow. I just put some WD-40 in the set screw hole and capillary action pulled it out the sides.. I'll also try putting some ice on the sight just before I hit it.... if any of that matters. lol And then I'll order the Ncstar after that.
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You want the sight cold and the slide hot. Try heat as there may have been one of the stronger locktight used. Have had similar issues before and heat did more than anything else to get things moving.
Good luck.
JW
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You want the sight cold and the slide hot. Try heat as there may have been one of the stronger locktight used. Have had similar issues before and heat did more than anything else to get things moving.
Good luck.
JW
Thanks. It's a new P-01 so there shouldn't be loctite. But I'll try all heat first in case there is.
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I bought this tool about a year ago while it was on sale for about $100:
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/sight-scope-installation-tools/sight-movers/armorers-handgun-sight-tool-sku100024279-104737-200602.aspx?sku=100024279
I haven't used it too many times yet; but when I have it's worked perfectly.
The first time I used it was on a P01. That sight is in there tight! I was worried that it wasn't going to come out. But I kept slowly applying more pressure with the large drive knob until the sight finally budged. I'd hate to try removing that sight without some kind of good sight vise.
The price might seem high; but when compared to using a gunsmith, it only takes me a couple of times to break even. (my local gun store's smith mangled a revolver of mine doing a sight install; so now I'm a little picky about who works on my guns. The smith I use now does it right; but charges $50).
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with Dawson aluminum nylon tipped punch
Try the Dawson aluminum punch w/o the nylon tip, the nylon absorbs a lot of the impact. This is from personal experience. Also second the use of a little heat.
Good Luck
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with Dawson aluminum nylon tipped punch
Try the Dawson aluminum punch w/o the nylon tip, the nylon absorbs a lot of the impact. This is from personal experience. Also second the use of a little heat.
Good Luck
Thanks. There's not much of a nylon tip left! And the aluminum mushroomed on the hammer side! I'll try it after the heat later tonight. Yesterday I hit it as hard as I could without losing accuracy. Maybe the WD-40 and heat will be enough.
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I've used that same NC Star tool on several pistols. Mostly CZs.
I did use it on an M&P Shield the other day and succeeded in slightly bending the threaded shaft. I was using a "custom tool" to twist the rod as the rear sight was so tight I couldn't twist it by hand. So, maybe, just maybe, I pushed the tool past it's limit, but I got the sight out and the new one installed (amerglo night sights).
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I've used that same NC Star tool on several pistols. Mostly CZs.
I did use it on an M&P Shield the other day and succeeded in slightly bending the threaded shaft. I was using a "custom tool" to twist the rod as the rear sight was so tight I couldn't twist it by hand. So, maybe, just maybe, I pushed the tool past it's limit, but I got the sight out and the new one installed (amerglo night sights).
Thanks. Like pipe for leverage? Any chance on distorting a CZ 75 slide with that much pressure? Wow. I'm trying it again either tonight or tomorrow with the hammer and will then buy this pusher. Thx.
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Any chance on distorting a CZ 75 slide with that much pressure?
Just hake sure the slide around the sight is well supported and not hanging past the end of the vise.
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I'm aware. Thanks. Can you bend/distort a slide using extreme pressure on a sight pusher?
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Thanks. All NCStars are the same so just look for the least expensive one? How about this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Pistol-Slides-Rear-Sight-Tool-Pusher-for-Glock-1911-SIG-Handguns/274586701694?epid=16032162872&hash=item3feea48f7e:g:vX0AAOSw~jJbT8kc
that looks to be the same one I use
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Thanks. All NCStars are the same so just look for the least expensive one? How about this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Pistol-Slides-Rear-Sight-Tool-Pusher-for-Glock-1911-SIG-Handguns/274586701694?epid=16032162872&hash=item3feea48f7e:g:vX0AAOSw~jJbT8kc
that looks to be the same one I use
Cool. Thanks for confirming. I'll get it after a few more tries with the hammer.
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You don't care about the rear sight, right? You are replacing it.
Why are you worried about marking up the rear sight? I understand the desire not to mark up the slide.
Maybe a brass punch (if you can't hold the punch on the sight when you striker it with the hammer) or a steel punch if you feel you can hold the punch on the sight when struck with the hammer.
Or even drill a small "dent" in the right side of the sight, then use a center punch style punch with the tip/point in the "hole" to help hold it in place when you hit it.
For awhile my standard "gunsmith tool box" hammer was a tack hammer. One day I was trying to drive a pin out of a hammer to put the spring guide in a different hammer and that little tack hammer just wasn't getting it done. Strike after strike with no movement. I went to the garage, got a bigger ball pein hammer and much more easily drove the pin out. I went out and bought a shop hammer style hammer with a short handle and it's in my "gunsmith" tool box now.
The bigger hammer has advantages. One is you can get plenty of force even with a low hammer velocity due to the increased weight. The other is you have a really large striking face vs. a smaller/lighter hammer which helps you keep the hammer on the punch easier/better.
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I've had a few sights that were just plain in there and wouldn't budge and since I was not going to reuse them They came out easily with a good hammer and steel punch. Trying to save a sight that you're never going to use again isn't hardly worth the effort when you consider taking a chance on damaging the slide trying to save a sight.
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Thanks. Good idea about drilling a dimple so the punch doesn't move. Don't have a center punch but I have finishing nail punch. I can also try the sledge hammer so I don't lose accuracy swinging so hard.
UPDATE: I just ordered the pusher. I managed to smash my finger with the sledge hammer. :-\ Nicked the slide just a bit.. not too much to feel bad about. I tried the steel finishing punch and heat. NOTHING. My workbench isn't the most solid... was rocking all over the place.
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I nicked one of my CZs while installing sights. Got the CZC tool, and it has all been a breeze eversince.
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/tools-punches-bench-blocks/cz-rear-sight-pusher.html
This info might be a little late for you, but could be beneficial for someone else.
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I nicked one of my CZs while installing sights. Got the CZC tool, and it has all been a breeze eversince.
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/tools-punches-bench-blocks/cz-rear-sight-pusher.html
This info might be a little late for you, but could be beneficial for someone else.
Thanks. Looks like a nice tool. And the rails fit in the bottom and the push screw can get deep in the dovetail unlike the universal pushers. Nice! I already ordered the NcSTAR. Oh well. Hey, if the NcSTAR fails or doesn't work, this may be in order. Thx.
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I have one of these CZC sight pushers and used it many many times. IMO it should really be named a “sight adjuster”.. It fits the rails perfectly but the throw is short for removing something. The adjustable tip is round and adjusts to slight angles but imo the stubborn sight the OP was talking about would not be a job I would use this particular pusher/adjuster on. By the way make sure you use a piece of something like an old credit card and place it between the sight and this adjuster. It WILL leave a round circle for sure. I used. Piece of chamois and it still marked a sight. I actually take this sight adjuster in my range tool box as it’s small and contained.
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...but imo the stubborn sight the OP was talking about would not be a job I would use this particular pusher/adjuster on.
Why's that? Because of the way the pusher head angles it may not be sturdy? Or the way the slide is anchored in there? Or just the general size of it? Thx.
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The frame of this pusher is a real good one piece. The bolt/screw has a .216 inch shaft, the small pin that actually pushes the small ( head/wobbling contact area) is .105 in, the actual contact pad area is round and .190 in. So on a really stuck rear sight as the OP said it is you might end up buying a new part for this $100 pusher. Like I said I’ve had this puppy for years and I only use it adjust not push on really tough stuff. IMO some thick belt leather, a vice, a good hammer and punch are needed for this one particular job being talked about. I have two other pushers I would use before the CZ unit. That’s just me
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Thanks. Sounds like a perfect tool for fine adjustments at the range. Hope the NcStar works. Should get it by Mon.
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Like I say John the CZ unit is a fine unit...but imo it has its limits and I’m thinking your sight be past it’s “recommended range” so to speak. Masking tape is your best friend in these jobs. Pieces of old leather boots are even better along with spall pieces of old credit cards.. And yup some of these CZ rear sights can be tough...but most of the time they are fine.. And don’t get mad at me for saying this but make sure there is not any kind of set screw in the sight causing you this problem. Ok now you can yell at me 🙃.
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Thanks. I took the set screw out before I started. But at a point where the darn thing wouldn't budge with a sledge hammer and steel punch, I had to stop and think, 'what am I forgetting". But as far as I know, there's only one set screw on the factory rear sights of the P01. My bench isn't the most solid, so it was rocking quite a bit on each strike. Vise is secure to the bench, but the bench is older than me and I'm in my 60s. :D
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You absolutely need to have your bench and vise STABLE. The instability of your bench decreases the force you are able to administer to the sight and has obviously increased the probability of damaging the slide. Hopefully the sight pusher you have coming will get the job done but in the mean time you really should think about a work surface to mount your vise on that does not move.
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Or, take the vise off the bench, mount it to a piece of 2X8 board, set the board/vise in the floor, stand on the board, bend down, use the punch and hammer to remove the sight. Between the flat piece of board on the floor and your weight on the board it should be pretty stable, if you can keep the punch on the sight and hit the punch with the hammer, something's gotta give.
I've (twice now) laid an AR15 upper receiver on the floor, put my foot on it and installed the barrel nut. Finally bought a barrel clamp fixture to go in my bench vise and do all that using a vise now, but my big foot and some of my (big) weight was enough to hold the receiver in place those two builds.
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Good advice. Thanks. If the pusher doesn't work I now have a few options.
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Or even drill a small "dent" in the right side of the sight, then use a center punch style punch with the tip/point in the "hole" to help hold it in place when you hit it.
NICE - good stuff.
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I got it! ;D That was really on there.
I couldn't resist going downstairs one more time after a beer with the sledge hammer. Of course I got it this time because my pusher's arriving tomorrow. >:( This time I took-out the vice padding and used some rubber magnet material instead. Some HEAVY wacks and it started moving. Even when the sight was almost all the way off, it was still harder than my PCR to remove that sight from scratch.
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Great to hear. That's how that stuff happens. You're getting the tool, so naturally the sight moves just before you get the new tool.
Now, new rear sight installation. The original rear sight was super hard to remove. Rust/corrosion? Rear sight too large? Slot in the slide too small? I don't know.
I do know that installation of a replacement rear sight can also be an issue if either the sight or the slot in the slide isn't sized right, one for the other.
If the new near sight won't fit into place in the slide without fears that you're going to break something trying to get it in you can "adjust" the rear sight to better fit the slot by removing some metal from the bottom of the rear sight. I use a stone. I've got a couple knife sharpening stones that only get used for gun parts. Metal removal for fitting and metal removal to remove rough spots to make the action smoother. Some oil on the stone, the rear sight bottom down on the stone and move the sight back and forth on the stone to remove some metal. I'm always worried about removing too much metal so I only remove a little and then do a test fit. If I think it won't move into place (and stay - it does need to be tight, but not so tight you need a big hammer and punch to install it - that sight tool should move it into place so you can tighten down the set screw) then remove it and take a little more metal off the bottom of the sight and then test fit it again. Repeat till you get it right. You can take metal off but can't put it back on, so go slow and repeat the test fitting attempts till you get what you want.
And, when you go to the range, take that little allen wrench for the set screw and the rear sight tool so you can move that rear sight if you need to during the sighting in process.
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Thanks. No corrosion. Some of the polycoat stuck or rubbed off onto the sight (#4) and the slide's dovetail shows bare metal in spots - the sides, not the bottom. Should I cover the bare metal or just oil before the new sight?
I don't know if it's out of spec. I can't measure the width of the slide dovetail at the widest point but the factory sight is is .375" - .376" on the widest point. The dovetail opening is .323". The dovetail depth is hard to measure with the protruding stick of the calipers... I'm getting .108" -.108.5".
I was going to return the sight pusher, but I'll keep it for fine adjustments and at the range.
Thx.
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john i fit the sight to my dovetail by sanding the sight base . not the slide! i used black magic marker as a guide when sanding once the bare metal started showing. i would taper the leading dovetail of the sight base that enters the slide dovetail first and ink the sight base and insert it to see where it rubbed the ink off. trial and error a bit at a time until i had it fitted part way into the slide dovetail . i had it about half way in place and used a brass punch and hammer to tap it in place. before i inserted the sight i cleaned it with alcohol and cold blued the bare metal and lightly oiled the base. i also put a dab of blue locktight on each side of the sight base and let it leach into the cracks and wiped the excess off with a q tip.
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john i fit the sight to my dovetail by sanding the sight base . not the slide! i used black magic marker as a guide when sanding once the bare metal started showing. i would taper the leading dovetail of the sight base that enters the slide dovetail first and ink the sight base and insert it to see where it rubbed the ink off. trial and error a bit at a time until i had it fitted part way into the slide dovetail . i had it about half way in place and used a brass punch and hammer to tap it in place. before i inserted the sight i cleaned it with alcohol and cold blued the bare metal and lightly oiled the base. i also put a dab of blue locktight on each side of the sight base and let it leach into the cracks and wiped the excess off with a q tip.
Thanks. My new sights are in. I measured with a calipers and got it dead center with the pusher. I won't loctite until I get to the range. I did clean with alcohol and blued the exposed metal. I also used a toothpick to blue the end of the front sight pin <--OCD!! The pusher worked good. I put some small pieces of rubber magnet material on the inside of the metal pusher to protect the new sight. I even took my PCR out and centered it better.
I file the back angle and not the bottom- of the sight ...just a matter of preference I guess. With the front sight I sanded the bottom in addition to filing the sides very carefully with the needle file. The front sight I used (link below) for my P-01 and PCR needs a lot of fitting. I learned from last time, when I only sanded the bottom of my front sight to get it to fit, the half moon cutout for the pin got too shallow and I barely got the pin in. Also the front sight was too low and crashed into my anti glare serrations on the top of the slide. This time, no issues. Thanks again.
Sights I used:
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/front-and-rear-sights/cz-rear-sights-all/cz-75-85-p01-rear-sights/cz75-short-tac-rear-sight.html
https://cajungunworks.com/product/050-390-correct-oem-fo-front-sight/
(https://i.postimg.cc/K8zKPYfN/03-08-21-48-55e.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkVJDcHc/03-08-21-53-23e-edited.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/FKk76n2k/03-08-22-03-43e-edited.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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john i fit the sight to my dovetail by sanding the sight base . not the slide! i used black magic marker as a guide when sanding once the bare metal started showing. i would taper the leading dovetail of the sight base that enters the slide dovetail first and ink the sight base and insert it to see where it rubbed the ink off. trial and error a bit at a time until i had it fitted part way into the slide dovetail . i had it about half way in place and used a brass punch and hammer to tap it in place. before i inserted the sight i cleaned it with alcohol and cold blued the bare metal and lightly oiled the base. i also put a dab of blue locktight on each side of the sight base and let it leach into the cracks and wiped the excess off with a q tip.
Good advice, go slow, can always take off more...can't put it back on.