Post by: jimjc on September 09, 2017, 08:12:19 PM
How do you guys feel about setting the gun up for a safety or decocker. I really the idea of being able to do it with the P07. Which do you like and why is one better over the other?
Post by: s0nspark on September 09, 2017, 08:47:55 PM
Post by: Tanners Owner on September 09, 2017, 09:40:27 PM
Post by: viking499 on September 09, 2017, 09:44:27 PM
Post by: SSGN_Doc on September 09, 2017, 09:57:11 PM
Post by: jimjc on September 09, 2017, 10:04:09 PM
Post by: DOC 1500 on September 09, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Do you guys feel it's a bit safer when you have one in the chamber if you use a decocker?Having One in the Chamber , I don't know if I call it safer but I call it being prepared. One in the Chamber means that you're ready . To me having a safety means an extra step to have to go through before pulling the trigger.
I like the decocker, because if I happen to be in the single action mode, ( Hammer all the way cocked ) I don't have to lower the hammer by pulling the trigger and lowering the hammer with my thumb. I just decock it and I believe that is safer.
Post by: Cyanide on September 09, 2017, 10:39:37 PM
Post by: jameslovesjammie on September 09, 2017, 10:56:06 PM
Manually decocking is neither unsafe nor difficult.
Post by: Winkel on September 09, 2017, 11:30:34 PM
Post by: DOC 1500 on September 09, 2017, 11:48:29 PM
I have decocked many DA manually so many times without incidents that I am used to it and can do it with my eyes close :o.HUH ?
Post by: SI_Pop on September 10, 2017, 02:28:58 AM
Post by: s0nspark on September 10, 2017, 04:54:18 AM
Do you guys feel it's a bit safer when you have one in the chamber if you use a decocker?
ALWAYS one in the chamber - regardless of the type of action - unless the gun is unloaded ;-)
A double action trigger does give you more opportunity to prevent mistakes due to the longer, heavier pull and the visual and tactile feedback you get with the hammer.
Yes, I feel it is safer.
Post by: armoredman on September 10, 2017, 07:04:35 AM
Any carry sidearm will be hot, i.e., loaded chamber, as any other method, in my mind, will require two hands/time to employ that just might not be there.
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on September 10, 2017, 07:17:32 AM
If you want to safely carry cocked and locked then go safety. Both are perfectly safe to carry chambered with the hammer down or at half cock.
Post by: SKILCZ on September 10, 2017, 07:32:25 AM
I did have a RAMI with a manual safety that I carried cocked and locked, but I ended up selling it and would have bought the decocker version if it were around back then. Other than SAO, like a 1911, I don't like manual safeties on handguns.
In fairness, one complaint against decockers is that they have more moving parts and can make your trigger pull worse, but I have no problems with the triggers on my decocker handguns.
Post by: djcvdv on September 10, 2017, 09:28:45 AM
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Post by: jameslovesjammie on September 10, 2017, 09:50:27 AM
...i tried lowering it manually, it slipped and i decided there and then its not something i will try again.
I don't know what method you used, but the best way most folks are using to decock their Safety guns is to pinch the hammer FROM THE SIDES with your thumb and forefinger and slowly moving it forward instead of riding your thumb on top and letting it move forward. You have much more control over the hammer, and it is almost impossible to slip out this way.
Post by: djcvdv on September 10, 2017, 09:55:46 AM
Thank you for that info. That makes sense! Will give it a go. That was not covered in my training i paid a lot for! Don't know why i did not think of that.......i tried lowering it manually, it slipped and i decided there and then its not something i will try again.
I don't know what method you used, but the best way most folks are using to decock their Safety guns is to pinch the hammer FROM THE SIDES with your thumb and forefinger and slowly moving it forward instead of riding your thumb on top and letting it move forward. You have much more control over the hammer, and it is almost impossible to slip out this way.
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Post by: jameslovesjammie on September 10, 2017, 10:30:21 AM
That was not covered in my training i paid a lot for! Don't know why i did not think of that....
I grew up shooting revolvers, both SA and DA. I will always consider myself a "Revolver Guy." When I first heard about the pinch method, I have to admit that I scoffed a little. Revolvers have been safely decocked for over a century before the invention of a decocker. Just slowly ride the hammer forward with your thumb on top and you're good to go.
I first heard about the pinch method here on the forum around 2008 when I first joined. From the first time I tried it, I know they were on to something. It gives you remarkably more control over the hammer than riding it with your thumb.
Post by: MadDuner on September 10, 2017, 03:27:00 PM
I have an old P-85 Ruger, and refuse to use it's decocker. I manually lower the hammer on that one. I will tr the 2-finger pinch idea next time though. I've ridden it down with my thumb for over 30 years already, but I am willing to try something new!
Post by: s0nspark on September 10, 2017, 06:15:41 PM
CZs are designed such that if you pull *and then fully release* the trigger before lowering the hammer when manually decocking, even if your thumb slips, the hammer will only fall to the half cock notch. The hammer only travels ALL the way if you pin the trigger to the rear. ;-)
Post by: Quercusmax on September 10, 2017, 08:32:16 PM
When I do carry, it is never with "one in the chamber". Why?
Use of my firearm is absolutely the means of last resort. Much, much more I rely upon situational awareness to avoid trouble, rather than than confront it. There are SO many reasons for this.
If you are professional LE, I get it. You need to be ready to respond to a threat in an instant. But for the rest of us, avoidance should be the first and best option.
I never expect to confront a "quick draw" situation, and if I ever do, I have no confidence that quickly firing off a round will be the right answer. And anyone who does that will surely come under a lot more LE scrutiny, including the likelihood of arrest, than I think is worth it.
I have a permit to carry and use it; I have more firearms than 98% of the population; and have been shooting longer than most have been born; and I'm not a libtard - but the above is just my opinion based on life experience.
Having said that, I strongly prefer a safety, since I grew up with them and have used safeties since before decockers came on the scene.
My wife once asked me "What is a deCocker anyway?" - and I told her that "You don't want to know, dear". 😂
Post by: nevada on September 10, 2017, 08:56:42 PM
Post by: MadDuner on September 10, 2017, 09:02:02 PM
We all get to decide what's best for each of us, and the conditions we expect to find ourselves in.
Personal preference is king!
Like I said above, I don't believe in any safeties other than the one between my ears that's connected to my booger hook. Which of course also means that if I'm carrying a weapon - I prefer a DA/SA trigger setup and one in the chamber. It's not going bang that first time unless I make the effort to pull that trigger all the way from home. I certainly don't want to get into a situation where I pull the weapon, then struggle to get the safety off or have to rack one into the chamber. I also don't want a rambunctious "target range only" 2# trigger in a defensive weapon. I love them at the range, but not if I'm planning on defending my life or someone else's with it. I know full well that those are just too twitchy to pull defensively in a tense situation and not risk a ND or worse - shooting somebody that didn't need being shot.
With that said, I'm much less comfortable with SA only striker-fire weapons with one in the chamber. Being "old school", or just plain old? I just don't have that much confidence in the extra doodad trigger or grip safeties they employ on some of the weapons I have. Even if the mags are loaded, I won't carry a DA striker fire with one in the chamber. If I'm defensively carrying - it's a DA/SA weapon.
Out in the desert or at the range? That's a different scenario.
Post by: Sod Buster on September 10, 2017, 10:41:56 PM
Post by: djcvdv on September 11, 2017, 09:11:51 AM
Well i have to admit, you taught me something useful thank you.That was not covered in my training i paid a lot for! Don't know why i did not think of that....
I grew up shooting revolvers, both SA and DA. I will always consider myself a "Revolver Guy." When I first heard about the pinch method, I have to admit that I scoffed a little. Revolvers have been safely decocked for over a century before the invention of a decocker. Just slowly ride the hammer forward with your thumb on top and you're good to go.
I first heard about the pinch method here on the forum around 2008 when I first joined. From the first time I tried it, I know they were on to something. It gives you remarkably more control over the hammer than riding it with your thumb.
There is often situations i want to get the hammer down completely and this is the answer. Still love my decocker though
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Post by: jimjc on September 12, 2017, 09:37:00 PM
Post by: FakeCZName on September 13, 2017, 11:56:16 AM
Aside from the fact that the pistol was originally designed to be decocked using the Decocker and is safe that way, those who choose to convert to "Safety" must rely upon the flimsy, easily bendable, kinkable and definately losable little "Safety" spring. You also are at the mercy of the plastic "detent" part that fits into a detent when the pistol is "on safe".
When my P-07 was new, I too thought a safety might be a good thing (before I saw how the Firing Pin block works).
First "Safety" spring kinked and jammed between the lever and the frame, turning my self-defense weapon into a scratchy-levered fidget-spinner.
2nd "Safety" spring disappeared completely, never to be found again.
Needless to say, there will never be a 3rd "Safety" spring, plastic detent or so-called "Safety".
Once I switched to Decocker--it has functioned flawlessly, safely and reliably and the Decocker will stay on my P-07.
Those who choose to go with the "Safety"; I hope none of this ever happens to you. But a thin spring is a thin spring...so take a look at that flimsy little slinky and ask yourself if you can really depend on it if your life depends on it. And if you can't...why did you want the little slip-bendy-fidget spinner in the first place? It does NOTHING to make a FP blocked pistol safer anyway.
Post by: Sledzep01 on October 01, 2017, 10:04:11 PM
I did use my new P07 (first polymer pistol) with the decocker. It was fine. but before I was going to carry it I switched it over to a safety and carry it cocked and locked.
Not because I did not trust it. And I would never manually decock a weapon.
Both of my previous pistols (one I still own) were SAO. If you train that way there is really no difference. To each his own.
Motor skills under stress? OK, but that means you are just as likely to pull the trigger fully under stress before you mean it. That little extra effort will mean nothing in my mind. Does anyone struggle to pull it in DA mode?
Plus I like to train with a single trigger pull for better trigger control in those high stress bad motor skills situations.
We all know it is your brain and finger that are the real safeties.
Sled
FYI
I sold my 2010 DW CBOB to buy the P07
Still own my Sig P238
Post by: nevada on October 02, 2017, 05:56:19 AM
Post by: TheSurvivalist on October 02, 2017, 01:56:05 PM
Post by: DW6395 on October 02, 2017, 03:06:37 PM