The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: CaliforniaGunner on November 01, 2018, 05:34:09 PM
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Is there any type of ammo that is recommended to not shoot in the 97B?
I thought I read somewhere that its not okay to shoot SWC but cannot confirm. Anyone else ever heard this?
Is it okay to shoot HC Lead Flat Point?
Basically I am looking for a good commercial woods carry load. I go up to the Sierra Nevada Mountain's in Northern California. BB has a 255 gr. Hard Cast FN in 45ACP that should do the trick and DT has a 255gr Keith Style SWC Hardcast Lead that would do as well.
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Mine has been flawless with anything I've tried. Sometimes SWC's need to be fine tuned to the gun but they will work if you handload and are willing to work out any issues that arise.
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Older versions wouldn't take JHP well. That was fixed with a change to feed ramp geometry several years ago -- don't remember what year.
SWC have a very narrow window in which they will operate. It's an outstanding pistol, but not a super popular pistol. It never hurts to ask, of course, but I'd be surprised if someone has experience with that ammo, possibly even flat points.
Have you considered another caliber? I'm not sure what mountains I'd be trekking off into where I'd be thinking ".45, yeah, that's the right tool for the job." ;)
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I have a 2013 97B with the CGW ?E? conversion and all I shoot in it are either my 185 or 200gr coated LSWC reloads. They run perfectly. I?ve also run 225gr TC loads too with no problems there either.
The 97B is a heavy gun empty and, with a full 10rd. Magazine, it?s probably pushing 4#s. I might rethink that as a choice to carry while hiking.
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I don't think I would trek with critter that can eat me and think a .45 AP is good choice. All other critter? sure.
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I have a 44 mag for the trails. I was thinking more for at camp, weights not really an issue. The most I would run into is a black bear.
So people will say a 240gr 44 special SWC going 900-950fps is fine for black bear but a 230gr 45acp going 1000fps isn't? That math doesn't add up.
Those Buffalo Bore flat points in 45acp would be fine to stop a black bear. A lot of people underestimate how deap a heavy hard cast flat pointed bullet will penetrate. Just ask Elmer Keith.
I was just wondering if there was any issue with lead non-jacketed bullets in a NEW 97B. Wasn't looking for opinions on what I should carry. To many opinions on that if you ask me.
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All you can do is load the bullets you want to try and shoot them. The heaviest that I have shot in my 97B is a 225gr TC ?Flathead? Bullet from Missouri Bullet Co. Ran fine in my 97B.
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... but a 230gr 45acp going 1000fps isn't?
A lot of people underestimate how deap a heavy hard cast flat pointed bullet will penetrate.
Most of your 230gr .45 is 850-900 feet/sec.
A 230gr at 1000 is FAST. You're right, that's a heck of devastating load. I just wouldn't want to shoot it in my 97B.
I've seen accounts of people with 1911s using stout loads with particularly heavy bullets damaging the weapons because the weapons weren't designed for it. In the case of the 97B, we had someone here in the forums a couple of years ago who bought one used, and the recoil spring housing was cracking/peeling off the slide, and the only apparent explanation was someone battering it with overly-stout ammo.
I'm not one of those guys who thinks you shouldn't walk into bear country with anything less than a Redhawk in .454 Casull, but maybe 10mm in a gun built to deal with it. ;)
And if you plan on going forward with that load in your 97, may I recommend a stouter recoil spring to protect your pistol.
Food for thought. ;)
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I didn't buy this gun for woods carry, just doing some research to see if it's an option for some circumstances. Not rushing anything, I have only had it out for about 300 rounds, lots of breaking in to do. I like your idea of the stout recoil spring, that a good idea. And for sure I wouldn't be shooting crazy hot 45acp everyday. The Buffalo Bore loads are 255gr HCFP running 960fps from a 5" barrel, that'll leave a mark (and plenty of power to put down a Black Bear). Not something you would shoot every day in any gun most likely.
But like I said, for now I got my 44 magnum that should do the trick, I'm not looking to buy any more guns.... for now, so 10mm is not an option. 454 makes sense if you are hunting or in Brown Bear country, but I load my 44 with a 240gr SWC truckin around 1200fps, plenty of stomping power but not so much recoil that it blurs the sight picture (I think 1200fps is the sweet spot).
But it sounds like there aren't any bullet restrictions for the 97B. Just like any other gun, hotter ammo = faster wear and tear. If anyone know something CZ specifically says let me know, I would depreciate it. Maybe I should read the manual, lol.
Still, I think a lot of people underestimate what a big heavy hard cast bullet can do.
... but a 230gr 45acp going 1000fps isn't?
A lot of people underestimate how deap a heavy hard cast flat pointed bullet will penetrate.
Most of your 230gr .45 is 850-900 feet/sec.
A 230gr at 1000 is FAST. You're right, that's a heck of devastating load. I just wouldn't want to shoot it in my 97B.
I've seen accounts of people with 1911s using stout loads with particularly heavy bullets damaging the weapons because the weapons weren't designed for it. In the case of the 97B, we had someone here in the forums a couple of years ago who bought one used, and the recoil spring housing was cracking/peeling off the slide, and the only apparent explanation was someone battering it with overly-stout ammo.
I'm not one of those guys who thinks you shouldn't walk into bear country with anything less than a Redhawk in .454 Casull, but maybe 10mm in a gun built to deal with it. ;)
And if you plan on going forward with that load in your 97, may I recommend a stouter recoil spring to protect your pistol.
Food for thought. ;)
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I have a 44 mag for the trails. I was thinking more for at camp, weights not really an issue. The most I would run into is a black bear.
So people will say a 240gr 44 special SWC going 900-950fps is fine for black bear but a 230gr 45acp going 1000fps isn't? That math doesn't add up.
Those Buffalo Bore flat points in 45acp would be fine to stop a black bear. A lot of people underestimate how deap a heavy hard cast flat pointed bullet will penetrate. Just ask Elmer Keith.
I was just wondering if there was any issue with lead non-jacketed bullets in a NEW 97B. Wasn't looking for opinions on what I should carry. To many opinions on that if you ask me.
A 1000 fps 230 in a .45 AP would be a hot and mildly capable round. I wouldn't want to shoot a bunch in my gun. I'm curious as to what recommended .45 load in 230 goes 1000 fps? I know it would beat up a 1911 however a 97 has to be stronger.
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"The 97B is a heavy gun empty and, with a full 10rd. Magazine, it?s probably pushing 4#s. I might rethink that as a choice to carry while hiking."
My 97B from CZ Custom weighs 49.2 oz when full up at 10+1 of 230 Gr. JHP cartridges.
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All you can do is load the bullets you want to try and shoot them.
And therein lies the rub. Lots of test firings to get the spring rate and feeding tested on any auto loader.
;)
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I don?t get the impression that the OP reloads so he just needs to order enough rounds to test before taking a 97B with him to have at his camp.
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I don?t get the impression that the OP reloads, so he just needs to order enough rounds to test before taking a 97B with him to have at his camp.
True, but you probably got a box of 50 to test the feeding before you trust any ammo to SD purposes. Then you might have another 50 used to test various stronger spring combinations.
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I don't at the moment. I plan to though. Were I live now doesn't allow for the space but I'm planning to move in the next year or so and will have the space then.
I don?t get the impression that the OP reloads so he just needs to order enough rounds to test before taking a 97B with him to have at his camp.
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1st Gen 97Bs are finicky, due to the ramp and OEM Mec-Gar magazines designed for the .45 Witness. I have used FMJ-RN, JHP, LSWC-HP, LSWC, and LRN with my old-timer...BUT I had to pay attention to the OAL quite a bit with bullet weights lighter than 230 gr. There's a lot of discussion on this in the archives/older posts. IIRC, my only real issue was using heavier JHPs with a straight ogive. 230 gr Federal Hydra-Shoks were not reliable in my '98, for example. However, I have never had any problem with any weight of Speer Gold Dot HPs.
I have zero experience with the newer 97Bs.
That said, I like my old 97B better than any .45 ACP that doesn't need moon clips. I've wasted a lot of time and money on other semi-autos, including a couple of lower-end Dan Wessons. As I'm getting older, I tend to prefer revolvers.
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I don?t get the impression that the OP reloads, so he just needs to order enough rounds to test before taking a 97B with him to have at his camp.
True, but you probably got a box of 50 to test the feeding before you trust any ammo to SD purposes. Then you might have another 50 used to test various stronger spring combinations.
Good advice. Always run at least a box through a pistol before trusting it, much less the practice considerations.
I was well into my 30s before I realized that my load preferences reflected my grip and stance. My father's getting quite elderly now, and he has been forced to adjust his handloads and carry loads. A really tight grip does affect feeding...
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I don't want to alarm anyone, but there has been a Radom sighting in the area. ;)
Welcome back, sir.
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We get Random reports from time to time. O0
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We get Random reports from time to time. O0
To be fair, I mostly shoot shotguns these days. I refuse to interact with people about shotguns, just for my own sanity.