The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: Jreeves on January 28, 2019, 04:27:00 PM
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Hello, I have made a after market part to replace the polymer striker carrier housing on the P10C anyone interested.
Need to have it Beta tested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXqWMg5uQE
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I'd be interested in testing in a P-10F when it arrives. I won't be shooting a P-10C enough after the P-10F arrives to be of much use to you, and I should put maybe a 1000 rounds through the new P-10F before I will be changing anything in it, just to make sure it is a good candidate for a bullseye gun. So I am not your guy for maybe two months. After that, sure, assuming I haven't gone back to a P-09 full time.
I like what you have done here, but I'm not the guy to give an expert opinion on the mechanical design changes you have made. Looks good to me. I have a hammer and a file, and several packets of Sugru, nothing much more sophisticated than that. I do have an experienced trigger finger and lots of cameras.
Joe
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That looks to be an original P-10C, before the updated striker with the anti rotation slot and flange. Still several originals out there that might be able to use an updated part.
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I haven't looked at the new one yet, just external images, if all that is changed is a added slot and a extension to ride in it, I personally would still put this in the new version also.
and the fix of just putting a longer pin in and drilling a hole in the back plate doesn't fix all these combined errors.
It just ties 2 loose parts together, into 1.
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I have an original P10C and I shoot a lot. IDPA and outlaw steel matches. I don?t have any issues with my P10C since I beveled the striker plate. I don?t know how I could improve on 100% reliability.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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https://youtu.be/Xix0X2GiHAA
I haven't heard of very many people having this issue, and they were all the first gen, not the new ones.
The new one is on the right, and the new NEW ones are being built in the US, don't know if they made more changes. As is, I have several thousand rounds through my FDE, original, with no problem. Have you had many approach you about this type of fix?
(https://i.imgur.com/Fu6AZ62.jpg)
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I have not had anyone approach me with issues, I saw the posts and the videos online of the "rotating striker" and disassembled my P10C with less than 200 rounds through it, and did not of course like the flaws/tolerances (which has been addressed in the new models)but did not like the polymer piece and its overly loose tolerances, upon questioning if the tolerances were too loose or correct compared to other firearms, I disassembled 3 Glocks a 25 year old up to a year old model, and they all have far tighter parts and tolerances.
In the video as with my opinion the design is slightly flawed, and this newer part negates those flaws.
If people wanted, I am a Mechanical Engineer, working in the field as a Polymer Injection Mold Engineer and head CNC machinist, that is where I get my opinions on that part in specific.
I could make a new injection mold that fit better.
As it stands I could not trust my life to this firearm as it is.
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It looks like you did some excellent machining. I got rid of my two black P10C's that were the older model. My FDE version has the newer groove. I never had any issue with the striker rotating when shooting. You go to great lengths showing how the show how the plastic rotates. Can you show that movement with slide on the frame? I don't see how you could get that much rotation with the pistol together.
I am also curious how the aluminum will wear with the steel striker sliding through it. Would the steel wear the aluminum enough to slow the striker down? I've seen people add enough grease to a striker spring to cause light strikes. I wonder if the two different metals would work well together. All questions aside I really do like the idea of the metal instead of the plastic. Good luck with the project. David
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I went to the range and tested this Aluminum part, uncoated, 250 rounds, it worked flawlessly, checked, drop safety, and it worked as well.
I also was allowed to take the slide off of a brand new P10C with the new slot cut in the slide mod from the factory.
I pulled the striker back into drop safety position, wiggled the back plate slightly 3 times and the drop safety released, I tried it 4 more times, it released the drop safety every time, the polymer part is not rigid enough and the parts are too loose. Drop safety doesnt work even on the new models.?
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It looks like you did some excellent machining. I got rid of my two black P10C's that were the older model. My FDE version has the newer groove. I never had any issue with the striker rotating when shooting. You go to great lengths showing how the show how the plastic rotates. Can you show that movement with slide on the frame? I don't see how you could get that much rotation with the pistol together.
I am also curious how the aluminum will wear with the steel striker sliding through it. Would the steel wear the aluminum enough to slow the striker down? I've seen people add enough grease to a striker spring to cause light strikes. I wonder if the two different metals would work well together. All questions aside I really do like the idea of the metal instead of the plastic. Good luck with the project. David
Aluminum is not a good wear material, it is soft and gummy, and can gall easily, but there are a lot of non polymer pistols that use Anodized Aluminum (Al 6061 no less) as the lower frame material and the slide rides on the aluminum rails, example, a KRISS Sphinx, or a Beretta.
That is why I am trying 7075 its the strongest and hardest Aluminum, and with Nickle Boron Nitride the coating should last longer than Hard Anodize, and has a lower coefficient for friction.
Even though I have had no issues with the firearm working, it is prematurely wearing, the drop safety doesn't work, even in the newer slide cut model. And the parts are showing wear marks from the parts slopping around all over.
I might Also try to machine a Delrin part the same as my Aluminum part, but I think the polymer piece is too flimsy. But I do like the no lubricant needed idea.
The polymer in the lower is a glass filled Nylon, I could use that also but Nylon is hydroscopic (absorbs liquid) and swells, and also becomes brittle, Delrin does not, and tensil and impact are close, chemical resistance is high. probably what the factory piece is made from.
If I jump to machining a Delrin piece and it works, I will make a new injection mold, and we can replace the factory part for either version for a upgraded part.
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Great idea. I am in for 2 if the price is right. Also, I recommend an aluminum backplate as well.
Yg
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It looks like you did some excellent machining. I got rid of my two black P10C's that were the older model. My FDE version has the newer groove. I never had any issue with the striker rotating when shooting. You go to great lengths showing how the show how the plastic rotates. Can you show that movement with slide on the frame? I don't see how you could get that much rotation with the pistol together.
I am also curious how the aluminum will wear with the steel striker sliding through it. Would the steel wear the aluminum enough to slow the striker down? I've seen people add enough grease to a striker spring to cause light strikes. I wonder if the two different metals would work well together. All questions aside I really do like the idea of the metal instead of the plastic. Good luck with the project. David
Aluminum is not a good wear material, it is soft and gummy, and can gall easily, but there are a lot of non polymer pistols that use Anodized Aluminum (Al 6061 no less) as the lower frame material and the slide rides on the aluminum rails, example, a KRISS Sphinx, or a Beretta.
That is why I am trying 7075 its the strongest and hardest Aluminum, and with Nickle Boron Nitride the coating should last longer than Hard Anodize, and has a lower coefficient for friction.
Even though I have had no issues with the firearm working, it is prematurely wearing, the drop safety doesn't work, even in the newer slide cut model. And the parts are showing wear marks from the parts slopping around all over.
I might Also try to machine a Delrin part the same as my Aluminum part, but I think the polymer piece is too flimsy. But I do like the no lubricant needed idea.
The polymer in the lower is a glass filled Nylon, I could use that also but Nylon is hydroscopic (absorbs liquid) and swells, and also becomes brittle, Delrin does not, and tensil and impact are close, chemical resistance is high. probably what the factory piece is made from.
If I jump to machining a Delrin piece and it works, I will make a new injection mold, and we can replace the factory part for either version for a upgraded part.
Any idea on pricing?
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I'm in to try.
Like you, I've not had a problem with rotation but why not. Keep us posted. I'd beta test if you need.
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Any idea on pricing?
Not sure yet, I am hoping under $50
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Not sure yet, I am hoping under $50
Thanks!
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Too all the Beta testers, the parts will be back from coating in a couple days, I tried to test a raw sample and it received scratches, without having a coating, not anywhere that mattered but in 1 cosmetic area.
These prototypes were made to dimension for no coating to be applied, but a minimal coating needs to be there, so I am having a minimal Type II Anodize added, which is very thin but will allow for testing.
I will send these out to those who asked to be signed up for testing as soon as I get them back, Thank You.
I have also received Delrin stock and will machine the same part from Delrin and send those out to you as well, as soon as I get them done.
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Too all the Beta testers, the parts will be back from coating in a couple days, I tried to test a raw sample and it received scratches, without having a coating, not anywhere that mattered but in 1 cosmetic area.
These prototypes were made to dimension for no coating to be applied, but a minimal coating needs to be there, so I am having a minimal Type II Anodize added, which is very thin but will allow for testing.
I will send these out to those who asked to be signed up for testing as soon as I get them back, Thank You.
I have also received Delrin stock and will machine the same part from Delrin and send those out to you as well, as soon as I get them done.
Are you still accepting beta testers? I'd be interested in the Delrin when it's available.
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Too all the Beta testers, the parts will be back from coating in a couple days, I tried to test a raw sample and it received scratches, without having a coating, not anywhere that mattered but in 1 cosmetic area.
These prototypes were made to dimension for no coating to be applied, but a minimal coating needs to be there, so I am having a minimal Type II Anodize added, which is very thin but will allow for testing.
I will send these out to those who asked to be signed up for testing as soon as I get them back, Thank You.
I have also received Delrin stock and will machine the same part from Delrin and send those out to you as well, as soon as I get them done.
Are you still accepting beta testers? I'd be interested in the Delrin when it's available.
PM me your shipping/contact information, I have not made the Delrin parts yet, been super busy, people ordering sights like CRAZY.
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To all on the Beta list, parts are in I will try to send them out Early next week, been super busy, I manufacturer all the sights for a sight company, people ordering them like crazy I guess, mostly police and military.
There is a tight spot on the part, where the cylinder inserts into the slide, this will be reduced in production, and also a thicker more durable surface treatment applied if all goes well.
Mine was tight enough that it got stuck first 3 shots, but then was fine after that, so should be fine on reduced production models.
This is considered a metal to metal interface so minor lube should be used, Delrin parts will not need lube.
And my drop safety worked every time, and I cannot get it to fail manually like the plastic part, that fails even in the newest model P10.
Thank Guys, CHEERS!
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Hello.
New member here. I watched your video with great interest. I am not an engineer but your video and the accompanying explanation make a lot of sense and much clearer than some others on youtube. I have held off getting the P10 simply because of the this problem and I am hoping that somebody can come up with a fix. Looks like your device may be the solution. I understand that the number of cases reported have been very small, although the actual number may be higher and some do not show up until after several hundred or thousands of rounds. I just have one nagging concern in the back of my mind:
How can one be certain that this device would work, considering the small random number of reported cases. This is because:
1. The number of rounds fired may be too low to trigger the malfunction;
2. The weapons used by the Beta testers may not malfunction at all, so one cannot tell if the normal functioning is a result of the new device or not.
I understand that there may not be an answer to this question, but I just have to voice my own concern.
Regardless, your demonstration is very convincing and I definitely would get one when it is in production because this pistol has a very good trigger and a trigger reach to boost. Thanks for the good work
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To all on the Beta list, parts are in I will try to send them out Early next week, been super busy, I manufacturer all the sights for a sight company, people ordering them like crazy I guess, mostly police and military.
There is a tight spot on the part, where the cylinder inserts into the slide, this will be reduced in production, and also a thicker more durable surface treatment applied if all goes well.
Mine was tight enough that it got stuck first 3 shots, but then was fine after that, so should be fine on reduced production models.
This is considered a metal to metal interface so minor lube should be used, Delrin parts will not need lube.
And my drop safety worked every time, and I cannot get it to fail manually like the plastic part, that fails even in the newest model P10.
Thank Guys, CHEERS!
Any further updates on this & the beta tests?
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Interesting...
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Interesting...
FYI - If you have the newer model with the extra channel in the slide by the striker, this mod/fix isn?t needed.
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FYI - If you have the newer model with the extra channel in the slide by the striker, this mod/fix isn?t needed.
I hope so. 8)
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Interesting...
FYI - If you have the newer model with the extra channel in the slide by the striker, this mod/fix isn?t needed.
So the newest CZ P10(2019 Editions) are made differently? When you say this mod/fix isn't needed, can you explain why?
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Interesting...
FYI - If you have the newer model with the extra channel in the slide by the striker, this mod/fix isn?t needed.
So the newest CZ P10(2019 Editions) are made differently? When you say this mod/fix isn't needed, can you explain why?
The 2018+ models have an extra channel machined by the striker that locks the assembly in place and keeps it from rotating. The assembly itself on those models has a notch that rides in that new channel which does the work.
The part detailed in the OP?s video actually doesn?t have the notch that rides in the channel, but the fitment is so good that it doesn?t rotate. CZ probably should have just machined it out of aluminum to the specs the OP did in the first place and they wouldn?t have had to come out with the fix they did.
Either solution is effective, and I would probably buy an aluminum part that HAD the notch if the OP produced one, just because the tolerances and fitment on it is really nice. As it stands, without the notch, I?m going to keep CZ?s stock fix in place.
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The 2018+ models have an extra channel machined by the striker that locks the assembly in place and keeps it from rotating. The assembly itself on those models has a notch that rides in that new channel which does the work.
The part detailed in the OP?s video actually doesn?t have the notch that rides in the channel, but the fitment is so good that it doesn?t rotate. CZ probably should have just machined it out of aluminum to the specs the OP did in the first place and they wouldn?t have had to come out with the fix they did.
Either solution is effective, and I would probably buy an aluminum part that HAD the notch if the OP produced one, just because the tolerances and fitment on it is really nice. As it stands, without the notch, I?m going to keep CZ?s stock fix in place.
Hopefully the OP chimes back in, do you know IF the CZ P10F uses the same size as a P10c?
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Hopefully the OP chimes back in, do you know IF the CZ P10F uses the same size as a P10c?
Unfortunately I don't know if the design is the same on the F. If I was a betting man I would say it probably is, but that's just a hunch.
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Since the S is the same, I'd be very surprised if it was different.
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Hello, I have made a after market part to replace the polymer striker carrier housing on the P10C anyone interested.
Need to have it Beta tested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXqWMg5uQE
Very informative and interesting video and solution.
I would be interested and left you a message.
Thank you for your efforts :)
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Gary, I received your message in email, but cannot find it in my CZ messages, anyway.
I have not had a high demand for this product, mainly I believe due to other knowledge it exists.
But with the low volume of need and the hi cost of product liability insurance, I would be paying people to take them at this point.
I am however still on the prowl to find a lower cost product liability provider so all is not lost yet.
If it ever becomes available I will post it on this site and the YouTube Video also.
Thank You.
PS I have been running this 7075-T6 Aluminum part with only a Mil-Spec type II anidize for testing, i have a older model p10 without the side cut, and a new model with the side cut.
both have had zero issues after initial testing and adjustments after prototyping.
Also the striker clicking over to one side is not fixed by the new model side cut, the striker rotating is due to large play and minimal interference from striker to the slide.
So newer models are still capable of rotating.
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Hi from South Africa!
Is this product available for purchase yet?