The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: Hickeroar on April 08, 2019, 03:27:07 PM
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UPDATE:
I?ve contacted CZ, and they?ve educated me on how the system works, and why it is indeed safe. I wrote up a full comment later in this thread explaining their take on the ?safe-action? system, but it is indeed safe. You can read on if you want to see that explanation. :)
ORIGINAL POST:
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I made a video to demonstrate what I'm seeing. I have a 2018 model with the anti-rotation fix in place, and I showed this in the video.
I asked on Reddit, and I'm not the only one experiencing this. I had multiple people PM me (and one reply in the thread) telling me that they also see this behavior, and none of us knows if this is somehow expected, mitigated by some other part of the mechanism, or something else. The thread ultimately got buried, but only one person replied saying theirs did not behave similarly, so I ultimately don't know how common this behavior might be, if it is indeed bad.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgVMt9rZWws
Steps:
- Clear and field strip the pistol
- Pull the striker rearward until the block/safety engages.
- Push the striker forward (toward the barrel).
- In my case, and in the case of at least some other users, the block simply slides out of the way and allows the striker to move forward.
- About 1 in 10 times, it does seem to properly grip, and doesn't slide forward.
- When it DOES properly grip, I can wiggle the striker side to side and it fails again.
So, is this nothing to worry about because some other aspect of the mechanism mitigates it, or is this a potential "big deal?"
The spring on the safety is in its proper place, functions as expected, and is in good shape. I tried to show that at the end, but it may not be clearly visible. I probably should have demonstrated that I could pull it back and it does spring back into position against the striker, but oh well.
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is the striker block spring broken or faulty (no or not enough tension)?
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No, it functions normally. I can pull it back and it springs back into it?s position.
It almost appears like the metal surfaces that are meeting are not squared off against each other properly, and so they?re just sliding off when pressure is applied.
I?m currently ?emotionally? preparing to have to send my baby in to CZ, but I?m hoping someone with some inner knowledge of this design can assure me this is normal.
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I want to say this exact same question came up on the forum a year or two ago. The issue with manipulating the striker safety off of the frame is you don?t have the nub on the trigger bar holding it all in place. Also what wiggling of the striker occurrs when the gun is together and in battery and a loaded magazine in place? The only way to truly test the striker safety is by dropping it while full assembled.
I believe if you take the slide and recoil spring off your pistol and turn the slide upright the barrel will fall out. The barrel falling out is a huge problem but not an issue when the pistol is together.
If you think it is broken send it back to CZ. David
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Yeah, I had the thought about the trigger bar as well. I just don't know what it all looks like and works like when it's fully put together. No other firing pin block I've ever seen has anything resembling this design. Seems like CZ just decided to roll their own for some reason.
I have thought about drop testing it myself, but I'd probably end up damaging the nose of the barrel or other internals (such as the locking block) in the process. I emailed CZ about it and sent them my video link, so maybe they'll get back to me and let me know that I can stop worrying.
Edit: From what I can tell (comparing positions of parts in their proper positions), when the trigger is in the forward position, there would be no contact between the "nub" and the firing pin block. The "nub" would be about 1/8" - 1/4" in front of the block at that point. That nub is also what looks to be the part that pulls the block OUT of the way, not holds it IN the way.
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Does anyone else have a P-10 C who can confirm or deny that this is happening for them?
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Contact CZ and ask if this the proper function.
With the slide on I believe it does what it?s meant to do.
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I contacted them just after making this thread, but I don't know how long it's going to be before they get back to me. That's why I was hoping someone who's knowledgeable about the inner workings around here would be able to chime in... CZ is not the fastest at replying to support or warranty requests.
If it turns out this is not normal behavior, there are probably a sizeable number of people out there with this issue considering I got a few affirmative responses from my 2-upvote reddit thread last week...
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I would place more faith in the membership of this forum than the CZ ?experts? on Reddit. If people here don?t see a problem then I would not concern myself.
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I would place more faith in the membership of this forum than the CZ ?experts? on Reddit. If people here don?t see a problem then I would not concern myself.
What I meant is that people on Reddit said they were seeing the same behavior I am, not that they said it's a problem.
No one there nor here has yet confirmed or denied that it's a problem, so...hopefully CZ gets back to me. The closest I've gotten from anyone yet is effectively that "it's probably not a problem." :-/
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Things work differently when disassembled or partially disassembled. Have you had any issues while firing? I am willing to bet the eingeers at CZ have this one pretty much under control, but if you need real expert assistance, call 1-800-955-4486 and ask for the gunsmith.
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Things work differently when disassemble or partially disassembled. Have you had any issues while firing?
No issues firing, but this wouldn't affect the "reliability" of it.
From what I can tell by looking at the contact points when it's assembled, there's nothing in contact with the striker block when it's assembled that would hold it in place, so I'm not sure about the "it works differently when assembled" idea.
I could be wrong, but I'm 90% sure I know exactly how this pistol's action works from trigger pull to striker release, and what all the internals do, so I'm just hoping there's an expert around here who can comment a positive "yes" or "no" on it and confirm or correct me. It's not a complicated system, so I'm hoping maybe I'm just missing something obvious.
I'll call CZ tomorrow if they don't reply to my support request. Thanks for the reply.
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Contact CZ and ask if this the proper function.
With the slide on I believe it does what it?s meant to do.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It does. It's nothing wrong with it. Mine all do that with the slide off. Perfect function on all of them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Contact CZ and ask if this the proper function.
With the slide on I believe it does what it?s meant to do.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It does. It's nothing wrong with it. Mine all do that with the slide off. Perfect function on all of them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks. I?ll update with what CZ says as well.
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Contact CZ and ask if this the proper function.
With the slide on I believe it does what it?s meant to do.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It does. It's nothing wrong with it. Mine all do that with the slide off. Perfect function on all of them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks. I?ll update with what CZ says as well.
Thanks
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I bought my P10C FDE in January 2019. Has a test fire date of 8-2018. Function has been 100%.
I was interested in it since it first came out but when my LGS had them I didn?t have the money when I had the money my LGS didn?t have them.
But they got a bunch of FDE?s in January so I traded in my Glock 19 (which gave me a bad case of Glock knuckle. )
To my knowledge there haven?t been any drop firings concerning the P10 C or the striker releasing on its own.
After a range session with it and after cleaning I check the striker to see if it?s not broken. I check all my carry guns after firing them.
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Got ahold of CZ on the phone. The guy I talked to said "that won't happen when the pistol is in battery, because the spring on the firing pin block would keep the block in place"...except that doesn't actually seem to be happening.
I guess I'll take his word for it, but his explanation didn't sound convincing.
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UPDATE:
Leaving the full story for "future reference's" sake in case someone else has this concern down the road.
I called CZ back because I wasn't convinced by the first explanation I got. He had made it sound like the SPRING was supposed to be holding the block shut. Of course maybe the communication error was on my end. Dunno. :P
He explained to me that the triangular nub plays two different roles depending on the position & movement of the trigger/trigger-bar/disconnector.
For the record, here's the breakdown:
- When the trigger is in the forward/active position, the trigger connector is in physical contact with the striker connector at all times, and holds it rearward, effectively playing the "firing pin block" role while the firearm is in that state. It's actually true that in this state, the block is not "secure," but it doesn't matter because the trigger connector/bar itself is doing its job.
- When the trigger is being pulled, the movement of the trigger bar rearward at its "raised" level uses the SIDE of that triangular nub to disengage the safety and pull it sideways (rightward if you're looking down the length of the pistol from behind).
- When the trigger reaches the rearward position, the connector drops downward (causing the striker to release) (you can see this when pulling the trigger forward and rearward when the slide is off). It's SLIGHTLY raised after firing, which allows the striker to re-engage against the trigger connector and pull it a little rearward when it cycles forward (this pressure also enables the trigger's reset when released after the slide cycles).
- SO, as for the triangular nub's OTHER role: when the trigger connector/bar is in the lowered/down/rearward position and the slide moves back forward, that triangular piece is now moved down & rearward and into the proper position for the TOP of it to forcibly hold the striker safety/block in the "closed" position, leftward. So the SIDE of it disengages the safety when pulling the trigger, and the TOP of it then holds it closed in the rearward position, after the slide has cycled.
- So...it's actually an elegant, if unusual design, and I was wrong to be worried. The spring on the block/safety is only really used to move it back into place to allow the triangular nub to do its job when the slide moves back forward.
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Appreciate that. CZ has been around the block and I trust their team.
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Appreciate that. CZ has been around the block and I trust their team.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ya I think carrying this sucker appendix, it wasn't enough for me to know that it "probably" was fine and I needed to know how and why it was fine. :P
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Totally agree as I carry appendix as well
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Thanks for taking the time to write that explanation. Very interesting but different set up. David
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Thank you for the detailed follow up, good description. 8)
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You are a good man Hickeroar, for following up on your concerns. I was pretty sure there wasn't a problem, but I had not taken the time to try to explain it. In my case, just blind faith that CZ had done it right. Your way is better.
Joe
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I wanted to chime in and make some corrections here. This thread (post 17 specifically) is being referenced to multiple places online as an explanation of how the striker block works. This explanation appears to be entirely incorrect. I took the slide cover off and took a video of how the striker block actually works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo0fQ08n_UI
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I wanted to chime in and make some corrections here. This thread (post 17 specifically) is being referenced to multiple places online as an explanation of how the striker block works. This explanation appears to be entirely incorrect. I took the slide cover off and took a video of how the striker block actually works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo0fQ08n_UI
It may be worth posting your full write up here or in a new thread.
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I went ahead and made a new thread here: https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=105862.0
I know this thread is referenced multiple places online as an explanation of how the safety is supposed to work and wanted make sure people knew it was incorrect.
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I would believe the mechanical engineers at CZ myself, having trusted my life and my families lives to many of their products over the years, but, like you say - there is a new thread for now.