The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CLUB CZ97 => Topic started by: Mists.Fire on June 25, 2019, 10:49:03 PM
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I installed a flat SAO trigger and removed my disconnector. The set screws are backed out completely. The trigger isn’t engaging the sear intermittently. If I lift fpb lifter and cock the hammer the trigger will work once. If I cook the hammer again it will not engage the sear again. Please help.
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I assume that you are talking about a CZ97B. If this is correct i would check your Trigger Bar Spring. The TBS should be pushing up on the trigger bar on both sides. The spring ends should be positioned in the grooves located on the underside of the sides of the trigger bar.
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I appreciate the response, but the trigger bar spring is resting in the cradle of the trigger bar.
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You say the sear won't release the hammer? Or the sear won't stop/hold the hammer in the full cock position when the slide moves forward? Or the hammer falls but the pistol doesn't fire?
I converted a CZ75 Compact to SAO a couple years ago and had an issue with the firing pin block not resetting. Racking the slide would cock the hammer. Pulling the trigger would release the hammer. The gun would not fire.
The trigger has to move forward far enough to get the sear and the firing pin block to reset.
You mention messing with the firing pin block lifting arm so it made me wonder.
Here's a picture of mine. The area on the front of the trigger (it's up inside the frame where you can't see it) was hitting the frame and not letting the trigger move forward far enough to allow the firing pin lifting arm to drop down into it's correct place behind the trigger bar.
I ground off just a small amount (you can't even see it when the trigger is installed in the frame) and it worked. That also allowed the screw that adjusts for forward movement to actually have an adjustable range and work as intended. Not saying it's your issue, just something to look at. If your trigger's screw is backed out and you're still having reset issues you might look at this. It won't take much metal removal to check it and the screw will still be able to adjust it if that is the issue. Good luck with it.
(https://i.imgur.com/sZJL70ml.jpg?2)
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My LGS has a BD for $670.00. If I did not already have a 'B' I'd be taking that beauty home.
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Not sure of the build specifics, but if you are "only" installing a SAO trigger and not modifying the SA reset, this is most likely your issue.
CZ, SAO triggers are designed to be used in pistols with a short SA reset. We have seen some CZ's that will not reset when an SAO trigger "only" is dropped in. Not enough adjustment to attain a reset.
SAO trigger by itself does not improve anything, it merely deletes the DA. We tell folks if you are going SAO, you need to build the pistol around the SAO trigger.
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Not sure of the build specifics, but if you are "only" installing a SAO trigger and not modifying the SA reset, this is most likely your issue.
CZ, SAO triggers are designed to be used in pistols with a short SA reset. We have seen some CZ's that will not reset when an SAO trigger "only" is dropped in. Not enough adjustment to attain a reset.
SAO trigger by itself does not improve anything, it merely deletes the DA. We tell folks if you are going SAO, you need to build the pistol around the SAO trigger.
I am about to order the SAO trigger for my 97B. Can you confirm that it will work with my 97B? I have the SAO trigger in my car right now. Do I have to order other parts?
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No problem... yet... I just removed the FPB and spring and did a function test and range trip. SAO does work with the stock 97b trigger.
I ordered a 5SAO aluminum (CZ factory part) trigger from CGW and a sear spacer. I'll switch out the triggers and remove the FPB-lifter & spring, replacing with the spacer later this week. So far so good. I'm looking forward to getting rid of the long pre-travel. Adjusting the "over-travel" a bit if needed is a bonus. I just want to keep a proper reset.
Already polished the internals and installed a CGW floating trigger pin previously.
Appreciate the posts so far. I'll be back to update and report if I run into any problems.
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Finished the upgrade today. It was an easy install:
Removed the FPB lifter arm and spring and replaced it with the CGW sear spacer.
Switched out the stock DA/SA trigger for the CZ 5SAO trigger, adjusted the take up but still allowed a good reset, adjusted the over-travel but had to back the screw out a quarter turn so the sear did not drag on the hammer hooks.
I am pleased with the result. Reduced take up by 1/2” or so and the over-travel is 1/16-1/8” past the wall. Very nice reset.
I’m going to put a few hundred rounds down range and dry fire some more. I may (or may not!) lower the hammer hooks to reduce creep but it’s not much of a problem at this point— the pull is very smooth.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/99602da25b1715647572f815e6a0e7cc.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/57c660fb5c381a04042573f7554fd83d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/6d50ba8ff87ec9eeff53546fe52e27fa.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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After a bit more dry fire, I noticed that the bottom of the sear was dragging on the hammer hooks. I simply backed out the over-travel screw 1/4 turn-- fixed!
I think using Vibra-Tite VC-3 on the adjustment screw threads is going to work quite well. They will turn if needed but remain locked in place after adjustment.
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Finally got the converted CZ97b to the range this morning. Results follow...
7yds, 2hand grip, unsupported:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200422/72b8d50c62d7b3f0474620e6029a2b92.jpg)
10 yds, 2 hand grip, unsupported:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200422/e9be80c0cb1f96ce86268242ba2b748d.jpg)
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Finished the upgrade today. It was an easy install:
Removed the FPB lifter arm and spring and replaced it with the CGW sear spacer.
Switched out the stock DA/SA trigger for the CZ 5SAO trigger, adjusted the take up but still allowed a good reset, adjusted the over-travel but had to back the screw out a quarter turn so the sear did not drag on the hammer hooks.
I am pleased with the result. Reduced take up by 1/2” or so and the over-travel is 1/16-1/8” past the wall. Very nice reset.
I’m going to put a few hundred rounds down range and dry fire some more. I may (or may not!) lower the hammer hooks to reduce creep but it’s not much of a problem at this point— the pull is very smooth.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/99602da25b1715647572f815e6a0e7cc.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/57c660fb5c381a04042573f7554fd83d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/6d50ba8ff87ec9eeff53546fe52e27fa.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, to convert a 97B to SAO, these are the parts needed?
https://cajungunworks.com/product/s-spacer-sear-spacer/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/5sao-single-action-aluminum-trigger/ (ftp://cajungunworks.com/product/5sao-single-action-aluminum-trigger/)
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Finished the upgrade today. It was an easy install:
Removed the FPB lifter arm and spring and replaced it with the CGW sear spacer.
Switched out the stock DA/SA trigger for the CZ 5SAO trigger, adjusted the take up but still allowed a good reset, adjusted the over-travel but had to back the screw out a quarter turn so the sear did not drag on the hammer hooks.
I am pleased with the result. Reduced take up by 1/2” or so and the over-travel is 1/16-1/8” past the wall. Very nice reset.
I’m going to put a few hundred rounds down range and dry fire some more. I may (or may not!) lower the hammer hooks to reduce creep but it’s not much of a problem at this point— the pull is very smooth.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/99602da25b1715647572f815e6a0e7cc.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/57c660fb5c381a04042573f7554fd83d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200305/6d50ba8ff87ec9eeff53546fe52e27fa.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, to convert a 97B to SAO, these are the parts needed?
https://cajungunworks.com/product/s-spacer-sear-spacer/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/5sao-single-action-aluminum-trigger/ (ftp://cajungunworks.com/product/5sao-single-action-aluminum-trigger/)
Yes... but in addition I would strongly advise installing the Floating Trigger Pin in place of the stock roll pin (which has to be removed anyway to switch triggers). https://cajungunworks.com/product/floating-trigger-pin/
Function is better (smoother action) and it is much easier to install. I would go so far as to say you must use it with the SAO trigger to fully realize its benefits.
I had previously installed the FTP in my 97b.
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Almost ready to order the needed parts; sao trigger, FTP, and sear spacer. What about schmeky's response about a short reset? Is there any part I have to order to get a short reset?
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Almost ready to order the needed parts; sao trigger, FTP, and sear spacer. What about schmeky's response about a short reset? Is there any part I have to order to get a short reset?
You mentioned a Sear Spacer. This spacer is used when removing the Firing Pin Block. Removing the FPB reduces the Single Action reset distance. This will eliminate the potential issue that schmeky is talking about.
If you have not already done so i would add a replacement Firing Pin Retaining Pin. You will need to drive out the factory Firing Pin Retaining Pin when you remove the Firing Pin Block Plunger and FPBP spring from the slide. The factory pin is a weak part that is prone to break.
61100 Firing Pin Retaining Pin
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/
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Almost ready to order the needed parts; sao trigger, FTP, and sear spacer. What about schmeky's response about a short reset? Is there any part I have to order to get a short reset?
You mentioned a Sear Spacer. This spacer is used when removing the Firing Pin Block. Removing the FPB reduces the Single Action reset distance. This will eliminate the potential issue that schmeky is talking about.
If you have not already done so i would add a replacement Firing Pin Retaining Pin. You will need to drive out the factory Firing Pin Retaining Pin when you remove the Firing Pin Block Plunger and FPBP spring from the slide. The factory pin is a weak part that is prone to break.
61100 Firing Pin Retaining Pin
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/
Excellent point-- or limit your dry firing to only doing so with a rubber bumper of some sort in place over the end of the FP to prevent hammer contact with the FP. A piece of foam ear plug or an o-ring will work nicely.
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Hummm...I've only done one conversion, so I may be a bit off, but here is what I recall. When converting a DA/SA 75b with a safety, the objective is to get short take-up and short reset; hence the set screws on the flat trigger. The short reset makes it impossible for the FPB to function properly. Also, there is now no use for the disconnector. SO, removal of the disconnector and elimination of the FPB are both needed. Also, I suggest consider installing the Pre-B sear. To me, the downside of converting is that now there is only 1 safety device, so make sure your safety is, in fact, in the "safe" condition, and that it goes into safe condition positively, and that you can clearly tell its safe without pulling the trigger! Personally, I'm going to get CZC's oversized LH safety so that I can get a better purchase on the safety when engaging it. The one from CZC is rather large, so it can be ground down to suit your requirements.
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So these are all the needed parts to convert my 97B to SAO? Thanks guys for the inputs.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FBRZsqX/0/600fe333/L/i-FBRZsqX-L.jpg)
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Looks good. That's all I used. 8)
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Looks good. That's all I used. 8)
Parts have been ordered. Question about the set screws. I guess pre-travel screw goes in front of the trigger and over-travel screw goes in the back. How do I adjust those screws? What am I looking for as far as setting them?
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Pretravel must always allow reset. Over travel must always allow sear to trip. In addition, over travel must allow hammer hooks to clear the under side of the sear when the slide is cycling.
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Agreed. Making things nice and tight is the goal but you want to leave a bit of extra clearance in both directions for proper long term function. As drband noted, this is especially important for the over travel set scerw. If the over travel is set too tight the top of the hammer hooks can rub on the underside of the Sear and cause premature wear to the parts. So you set it to where the hammer will drop and then ad an extra 1/4 - 1/2 scerw turn for safety.
If you are still not sure, you can check the Hammer/Sear clearance by manually rocking the hammer back and forth with the trigger pulled, while closely inspecting the the hammer/sear area with good lighting or a flash light. Look and listen for contact as the hammer hooks rock forward under the Sear.
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I totally forgot about this thread. The problem ended up being the sear. I got the adjustable sear and race hammer from CGW, removed the FPB and now it’s gtg.
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Old post but this is lots cheaper than a pro package to get a good single action 97!