The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: CZ_FANATIC on September 12, 2019, 07:38:14 AM
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Thoughts?
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I don't know yet. I have a 357 Sig barrel coming for my 75B and I can let you know after it arrives and I get a chance to shoot it.
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I have a custom Fusion firearms 1911 , 5 inch and my son has a Sig 229 as well both are in .357 Sig, I love the caliber and performance. Both are fun accurate shooters. I also enjoy 10 mm. the downside of both of these calibers is the higher cost of ammo. I would like a Cz in this caliber as well,I have looked at what CZ Custom has to offer and I like it. I have one on my list of firearms that I plan on buying.
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Have a SIG 226, 229, 1911 and a JRC (Just Right Carbine) in .357 SIG. I love the cartridge for both it stated power numbers and my real world experience of its accuracy potential.
I am not a reloader (however I save my brass) but from my reading, I find it is not the friendliest caliber for the reloader. Of course it is more expensive to shoot than some others. I think the least I paid (for 1000 rounds) was $0.29 per round. Close to .45 ACP prices but you don't seem to find deals in .357 SIG like you can in .45 ACP on occasion.
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I got this from another forum - but it works.
Use a .40 S&W carbide die to resize the .357 SIG brass first.
The run it through a standard .357 SIG die - without sizing lube. The neck and shoulder are such a small area that as long as the body is already resized the std. .357 SIG resizing die will take care of those areas just fine/easy.
After that, it's just belling the case mouth to accept the new bullet, putting the primers in, adding powder, seating the bullet and crimping - all done the same way as any straight walled case.
I did run into an issue earlier this year (or was it late last year??) where I was tearing up some of the cases. I'd get that dreaded bulge right at the transition from case side wall to shoulder due to some brass being longer than others and then the die bulged the long cases when crimping them.
All I was doing was removing the bell/flare on the case mouth but the longer cases where getting really pressured by that step in the die that crimps/removes the bell in the case mouth.
Neither my Glock M31 or my full sized M&P are much for shooting good groups and I stopped shooting them when the CZ's spoiled me with their accuracy (9MM and .40 S&W).
I like the caliber and it's potential, I just want a pistol that shoots good groups. Be sure, Timetofly, to come back and show us some groups.
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I had a Sig P-226 with a .40 slide that I fitted both 9mm and .357 barrels to. I loved shooting that pistol with the .357 Sig barrel.
Texas State Troopers carried them for years, I think in the 90's, not sure.
It was a fun round, but I never shot the .357 barrel enough to really become proficient with it. The 9mm Bar-Sto conversion barrel worked perfectly in that pistol. I put a red dot on it and used it for a backup bullseye gun when the P-09 was my primary pistol. Never needed a backup, so I sold the P-226 with all the barrels and magazines to a friend of mine who uses it for his backup gun.
From what I remember, recoil was substantial, and followup shots took some effort. Not exactly a bullseye friendly round with factory defensive loads (single hand standing). But fun to shoot.
Joe
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I like the caliber and it's potential, I just want a pistol that shoots good groups. Be sure, Timetofly, to come back and show us some groups.
You can count on a report on how I like the 357 Sig. I've been curious about the 357 Sig for a long time.
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I always get a kick out of the guys that holler a .357 SIG is not big improvement over the 9MM and then later recommend 9MM +P or even +P+ ammo to gain extra velocity. That's what the .357 SIG is - extra velocity.
A steady diet of +P and +P+ 9MM ammo isn't good for the pistols most of us carry.
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I picked up a new Gen 4 Glock 31 today, and my order of Underwood ammo also showed up. I will post my thoughts after I get to the range.
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It's a novelty round for me as I'm not sure it does anything that a 9mm of 40S&W cannot do in self defense. With that said, I like it for the accuracy and high velocity "crack" that it produces. It is a lot more damaging to plinking targets. I've had excellent results with AA#7 and 125 grain bullets. I have not had good luck with 147gr projectiles. My favorite load is 11.4gr of AA#7 and a 125gr Gold Dot. That load is above the current Accurate powder reloading document but was allowable in previous versions. I use 10.5gr for practice loads. Currently I am just shooting them in all Stainless SIG P226 platforms, but I have a 40S&W SP01 and fitted a 9mm barrel to it for 357SIG conversion. I just need to get someone to cut the 9mm chamber to 357SIG for me.
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I have a P-320 in .357 Sig. My favorite semi-auto round. I may try to obtain a 75B in this caliber..
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I think CZ Custom can convert your 9MM barrel to .357 SIG. Maybe Cajun Gun Works, too. But CZ Custom had a video out a few years back of a Tactical Sport .40 with a .357 SIG barrel and it was a pretty awesome video.
I'm still trying to figure out whether to keep my CZ75B .40 a .40 or get a barrel for it. It's doing pretty well (group size) and I hate to mess with a gun that shoots to suit me. Just have to concentrate on it long enough to make up my mind.
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.357 Sig = 9mm for Men 8)
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.357 Sig = 9mm for Men 8)
That would be the 38 Super, but you keep thinking that.
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I've never tried one, so I don't know if I would want .357 Sig barrels for any of my .40 CZ pistols.
The only times there were ever .357 Sig pistols fired when I was at an indoor range were the days I was trying to pick up my 7.63x25 Mauser, 7.65x21 Luger or 7.62 Tokarev cases.
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.357 Sig = 9mm for Men 8)
That would be the 38 Super, but you keep thinking that.
I'll stick with .357 SIG
https://youtu.be/qUxlL4X9jmg
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The last time I shot my full sized M&P .357 SIG I put 3 boxes through it (I think). Then I switched to the P09 9MM and I had to keep telling myself it really was firing. I mean it was putting holes in the paper and I could smell the gun powder but the difference in recoil was just so different it was difficult to believe it was firing.
The .357 SIG would be a dandy caliber for a compensator out on the end of the barrel.
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I traded for one of the Sig P226 “can’t remember the fancy name” pistols a few years ago that was chambered in .40, but came with a .357 barrel. I was amazed at how much more accurate the gun was with the .357 barrel. I’ve never fired a bad 226, but the .357 cut my my 25 yard groups in half, and seemed to like Sigs ammunition the best. It was unusual to me to have such good luck with what I’d consider to be self-defense ammo.
At the same time I had a Sig 220 in 10mm that “hated” Sig’s ammo. Kind of a non-sequiter I know, but I thought is was amusing.
Definitely a niche round in my opinion. But I found the recoil favorable over the .40, and suspect that it does every bit as much damage in the average situation. I’ve always felt like the modern 9mm vs. .45 ACP argument was kinda lame, and to nit-pick even further is “really” pushing, well, its not much worth. But I do like the caliber. And have since purchased a barrel for an M&P that I sometimes need to carry.
FWIW, I carry an old 1911 in .45 if given a choice. But have found that .357 Sig a lot of fun to shoot!
I hope you enjoy it.
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Thoughts?
I got a Christmas card from a good friend addressed to .357Steve. ;)
Yessir, I love the round, especially some of the Underwood offerings.
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I qualified with my Gen4 Glock 31 today and it will now be my duty sidearm. I really like shooting the .357 Sig!
The recoil lets you know you are shooting something serious, but is still manageable.
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I know this is an older thread, but some have mentioned installing a .357 Sig barrel in a CZ... Has anyone done it?
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I like the caliber and it's potential, I just want a pistol that shoots good groups. Be sure, Timetofly, to come back and show us some groups.
Right now I’m rehabilitating from a medical event and only have the use of one arm/hand. When I return home I can setup my 75B with a 357sig fire dragon barrel and post something also could post a target from a M&P 40 that has a 357sig factory barrel in it. But for now, I’m out of commission for s while until my left hand begins to respond again. Long slow road to recovery.
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I have a 357 Sig in my P229. The first two rounds in the magazine are from Underwood Ammunition, Xtreme Defender 65 gr., 2100FPS.
What's not to love about that?
Man that round is LOUD!!
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Have 5 357 Sigs. It is the safest round to shoot in defensive situations as the velocities will open almost any hollow point design and thus limit over penetration problems. It is easily dumps and extra 100 to 200 foot pounds of energy into the target over either 9mm and 40, It also has a significant advantage in both reliability and accuracy. Currently getting 1470 fps out of a 124gr XTP load that has an extreme spread of only 7 fps. And yes it cuts cloverleafs at 25 yds, when I do my part. Recoil is less than the 40 180gr loads, but is louder (can't have everthing). You can take the load over 1500 but ES starts to go up around 1530 pressure signs start to show.
Long live the 357 Sig.
JW
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Since this thread was resurrected: I sold the Glock 31 a long time ago and currently carry an HK VP40
with a RCM .357 Sig Barrel. IMO, this is the perfect platform for the .357 Sig. Smooth & Sweet. 8)
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I know this is an older thread, but some have mentioned installing a .357 Sig barrel in a CZ... Has anyone done it?
CZ Custom can do it. I sent them one and just got it back.
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45 auto > 357 sig (but not 357 mag) mathematically speaking
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Sleazy-CZ,
Depends. I have 7 different 45s and love the caliber. 357 SIG can out perform the 45 in energy delivered and flat shooting at distance. For a typical social engagement either will work fine, but I shoot more accurately and faster with 357 SIG than I do 45. Also have had fewer HP bullets fail to open and thus less chance of over penetration with the SIG. Biggest disadvantage is cost of factory ammo, so I reload.
JW
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I have no experience with 357, but I did just pick up a used p226 in 357sig, so I hope to find out soon.
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jesuvuah,
Regret letting mine go. Hope it shoots as well as mine did.
JW
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I seem to recall reading articles comparing 357 Sig ballistics to the venerable 357 Mag when the round first came out. It came up short on velocity...... more of a pretender. If you want true 357 Mag performance in a semi-Auto carry gun, get a 1911 chambered in Win 9x23. As easy to reload as 9x19 and feeds through commonly available 38 Super mags.
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I seem to recall reading articles comparing 357 Sig ballistics to the venerable 357 Mag when the round first came out. It came up short on velocity...... more of a pretender. If you want true 357 Mag performance in a semi-Auto carry gun, get a 1911 chambered in Win 9x23. As easy to reload as 9x19 and feeds through commonly available 38 Super mags.
I had to do some reading up on the Winchester 9x23 as I was not familiar with it. Interesting round, but everything I read pertaining to brass for the pressure, it was suggested to use nothing but Winchester brass if your barrel did not offer 100% support. Starline is thinner and bulging in non fully supported barrels. The Winchester brass also has less volume for reloaders, of which I am not. Some guys are using 5.56 brass to make their own as I guess Winchester 9x23 is hard to come by.
Anotber advantage of the 9x23 was more rounds in a 1911 gun. No big deal for me as my P229 has LEO 12 rounders and my P226 has 13 & 14 rounders.
As far as comparable velocities, Underwood's 125gr .357 Sig jhp were measured out of a P229 as per Jay in Underwood's tech department. They are rated at 1475 ft/sec. Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Double Tap, and others are all about the same 1475 ft/sec for 125/124gr offerings. I couldn't find any factory 9x23 loads using a 124gr/125gr over 1450 ft/sec. Underwood doesn't list any, my findings were based on DT, Buffalo Bore, and Corbon. Perhaps initial offerings of .357 Sig years ago were not what is available today.
I also looked at load data and found in the 124gr listings (Load data.com I think it was), none of the suggested maximums end up with a velocity over 1467 ft/sec. Peanuts in terms of difference. These were out of a 5" barrel.
Paul Harrel has a cool 3 part series on .357 Sig that is really informative. I found multiple videos of people hitting +1500 ft/sec out of Glocks with 5" barrels. I searched for some 9x23, but not much there.
In any case, as fun as the 9x23 sounds, it isn't faster than any factory .357 Sig load I found. I wouldn't want to get hit with either of them!
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Steve,
Also enjoyed the Paul Harrell videos. Do not have a 9x23, but do shoot a 38 Super Comp, which is close. Never got the velocity out of the comp that I do out of the 357 Sig. Can run the 124s well into the 1500s before I see pressure signs and have one load with 147 XTPs that is just short 1400 fps. These are using my SIG 229. The longer barrel on my 75 CTS may improve on these numbers. Reliability is better with the Sig, granted the 38 Super Comp was built as a game gun from the beginning.
The idea behind the Sig was to develop a cartridge that matched the Remington 125 gr HP that had a documentation of 95% one shot stop back in the 90s. Sig claimed that the 229 with this cartridge would equal the Remington round out of a 6 inch barrel. What happened is that back in the 90s a lot of load development for 357 Mag increased velocity for all bullet weights, but especially 125s got almost 150 fps boost over just a couple of years. Sadly 357 Sig has never enjoyed that kind of attention. I have no doubt that safe loads could be developed for the cartridge that would easily match the new 357 Mag loads, given equivalent barrel lengths.
From a personal protection perspective the Sig is far superior to 9mm in that it does not require high tech bullets to achieve optimal results. The problem with 9mm is that you needs super special loads that cost $2.00 a shot. Most people could never afford enough to even verify reliability and sight in their pistol. Had a resent test with some of those high cost rounds and found that they were not fast enough to even start to open the hollow points and thus over penetrated. Worked up the costs with one of these rounds and the cost of the ammo just to verify and sight in and have 200 rounds on hand cost more than the pistol and 3 mags. Assumed it only took 100 rounds for verification and sight-in.
Cost on ammo and availability between 9x23 and 357 Sig actually might be in the 357 Sig's favor, which is saying something. The additional capacity of a couple rounds I am not sure is all that valuable unless you are looking at single stack mags. 12+1 in my Compact 75 and 14+1 in full size and 17+1 in my TS. Do not feel under gunned with the Compact.
Sorry for rambling. Wish you the best on your choice.
JW
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This dummy added 2 calibers recently (evy'bdy should add calibers smack in the middle of an ammopocalypse - big fun time). One is 357 Sig and I'm liking it plenty. Started by bringing home a one-of Kel Tec Sub 9 chambered in 357 Sig (Sub 9 is actually a folding metal framed carbine that preceded the plastic fantastic Sub 2000). And actually just got my Silverback (Dan Wesson/CZ 10mm) back from my gunsmith. It still runs 10mm but it now has a complimentary 357 Sig option.
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.357 sig > .40 s&w.
I'd also argue .40 s&w > .45 acp given greater mag capacity, but not round to round.
That means .357 sig is greater than .45 acp.
However, 9mm is higher capacity and more controllable than all of above, and accuracy/precision is paramount for pistols.
So 9mm vs above is a materially different consideration IMO -- above are largely which form of greater recoil than 9mm do you control best...
If you're in a 10 round or less pistol mag capacity state, then .45 acp or gap are clearly best.
YMMV.
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Fuzzy, I'm sticking with the .357 Sig stuff. No need for me to do as Dred has and add another caliber during this "mess". I already added my 10mm, but I was able to find good deals on both 10mm and .357 Sig. I'm good on both for now.
Dred, love the idea of switching from 10mm to .357 Sig. 👍 Great job! I wanted a Sig Nightmare in .357 Sig, but missed out.
RSR, I get your logic, but I shoot my 229 as well if not better than my 9mm. I also read a report that had a statistic about .357 Sig and other rounds in terms of rounds to stop a threat. 1.6 less for .357 Sig vs 9mm. One could argue that would even out the capacity argument, if you hit the bad guy. Just twisting numbers. 😎
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Dred,
Would love to see some pics of your rig. That sounds really neat. Also post on how she shoots.
JW
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Dred,
Would love to see some pics of your rig. That sounds really neat. Also post on how she shoots.
JW
I will edit in pics in a moment. I ran 4 mags of 357 Sig yesterday. She ran flawlessly - no failures. Recoil is easily managed - one mag was dumped (8 rounds in less than 5 sec from 10 yards) hand sized group.
She is hitting low but I'm not adjusting the sight until I confirm POI shift 10mm to 357 Sig.
Apologies in advance 'cause the visual clues hardly distinguish the caliber swap. The stamping on the 10mm barrel is deeper, and the muzzle plus bushing are different. Also swapping recoil spring to Wilson Flatwire 17lb for 357 Sig.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210731/24f26f2083111dbb968c70e0727b5dad.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210731/474540d47d6f2e23ca72fd808b564a17.jpg)
So, my Silverback is a true first world conundrum. 10 is my favorite and 357 Sig is gaining fast. Enjoying either denies enjoyment of the other.
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Here is an anti- 357 Sig viewpoint from Lucky Gunner. Which I tend to agree with. The basis thesis is that you get the same ballistics from a hot 9mm without some of the downsides of the 357 Sig (noise, blast, etc.). The marketplace seems to have adopted the anti - 357 Sig position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkus6kKodpU
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Here is an anti- 357 Sig viewpoint from Lucky Gunner. Which I tend to agree with. The basis thesis is that you get the same ballistics from a hot 9mm without some of the downsides of the 357 Sig (noise, blast, etc.). The marketplace seems to have adopted the anti - 357 Sig position.
You have to get to +P+ 9mm to approach .375 sig velocities. BUT there's no standard for what 9mm +P+ is, and a lot of 9mm guns recommend against +P ammo, let alone +P+, and sometimes using +P ammo will even void warranties. That's pretty important for work-issued weapons in our litigious society.
For +P 9mm, you need a 16" barrel to approach .357 magnum point blank energy, which is roughly equivalent to .357 sig -- from the 16" Keltec Sub2k's owner manual:
(http://southernoutdoorlife.com/mouseguns/sub2000/ballist.gif)
That said and recognizing that .357 sig was developed in early 90s, I agree that modern bullets have narrowed terminal effect performance (especially considering that many .357 sig rounds use 9mm bullets); however ballistically, .357 sig is still superior -- and that's especially important for folks who sometimes engage threats with handguns at distance like LE with full-size duty weapons and much less so for civilians who typically use more compact handguns at point blank range for self-defense.
YMMV.
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Good stuff, sir. I guess the question then becomes whether additional velocity (in pistols) adds any terminal performance. I would tend to answer that in the negative, though I don't have any skin in the game.
I just gotta throw in one more Lucky Gunner video. Not to advocate any particular view, but because I find the subject matter so interesting. This one, wherein Chris Baker interviews two actual experts in the field, posits that most modern handgun calibers perform more or less the same against human targets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kUvi72s0Y
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The problem not discussed is still cost. With 9mm ammo you need a "High Tech" bullet to get your desired results. Who can afford to pay the cost of their firearm to verify reliability, sight in and practice with $2.00 a shot ammo, even before COVID. Have a shooting buddy at my range who shoots exclusively 9mm NATO ball for matches, practice and defense. He knows it over penetrates, but his gun is sight in and he is very good with it. Like the guy a lot, understand why he is making the choice, but I am not moving next door.
It also occurs to me that Lucky Gunner would like you to purchase the high cost and high tech bullet from them.
Strongly prefer a caliber that can meet the FBI goals without the Technology or Cost. Keeping them in the A zone takes training even at short combat distances. This is also a perishable skill that has to be maintained. That high cost ammo that you only load in your gun at home or in your EDC, is not all that useful if you practice with something else entirely. Another person I used to shoot with (he retired to AZ) always carried Federal NYCLAD HP ammo in his pistol. This stuff must have been 40 years old. He only had two boxes so he had not even tested the ammo in over a decade. When I convinced him to shoot a mag he had two failures. The ammo he was depending his life on, would likely get him killed.
Paul Harrell did a video on this subject, though he labeled it Hyper Ammo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayd4sxW_RUA
I know that my opinions are my own and the die hard 9mm fans will not be convinced. If you can afford to shoot the high tech 9mm ammo, power to you; doubt seriously that most can. I hope for all this remains a academic subject and none of us ever have to employ our defensive pistols at anything other than paper or steel. All of us make choices, nice to have the freedom to do so.
JW
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The problem not discussed is still cost. With 9mm ammo you need a "High Tech" bullet to get your desired results. Who can afford to pay the cost of their firearm to verify reliability, sight in and practice with $2.00 a shot ammo, even before COVID. Have a shooting buddy at my range who shoots exclusively 9mm NATO ball for matches, practice and defense. He knows it over penetrates, but his gun is sight in and he is very good with it. Like the guy a lot, understand why he is making the choice, but I am not moving next door.
It also occurs to me that Lucky Gunner would like you to purchase the high cost and high tech bullet from them.
Strongly prefer a caliber that can meet the FBI goals without the Technology or Cost. Keeping them in the A zone takes training even at short combat distances. This is also a perishable skill that has to be maintained. That high cost ammo that you only load in your gun at home or in your EDC, is not all that useful if you practice with something else entirely. Another person I used to shoot with (he retired to AZ) always carried Federal NYCLAD HP ammo in his pistol. This stuff must have been 40 years old. He only had two boxes so he had not even tested the ammo in over a decade. When I convinced him to shoot a mag he had two failures. The ammo he was depending his life on, would likely get him killed.
Paul Harrell did a video on this subject, though he labeled it Hyper Ammo.
I know that my opinions are my own and the die hard 9mm fans will not be convinced. If you can afford to shoot the high tech 9mm ammo, power to you; doubt seriously that most can. I hope for all this remains a academic subject and none of us ever have to employ our defensive pistols at anything other than paper or steel. All of us make choices, nice to have the freedom to do so.
JW
I think the consideration is or was that if using a full size duty pistol with longer sight radius and if law enforcement or a military unit primarily limited to sidearms for immediate engagements, then there is benefit to a flat shooting cartridge with greater penetration capabilities. Especially if transition from revolvers -- much greater capacity than .357 magnum @ 12+1 for compact Sig P229 and 15+1 for full-size P226 and other similar in respective classes (basically, 2x capacity relatively to similarly sized wheelguns).
Really, it's more of a PDW vs handgun niche -- inching toward the former.
Remember .357 sig was developed nearly 20 years ago, and bonded, barrier-blind, and controlled-expansion rounds really weren't common then, if they'd even been developed. For instance, just look how far military small arms development has come from 9/11/2001 to today.
And that's before we get into computer-aided design, more complex modeling/artificial intelligence programs, etc, that are now commonly integrated into product development and that allow such to occur MUCH more rapidly and effectively than it used to.
I think this is a fair summary of what led to .357 sig and it's downfall: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/12/26/a-need-for-speed-rise-and-fall-of-the-bottlenecked-pistol-cartridge
BUT the need to defeat body armor and/or engage at distance with compact weapons does leave a niche for bottleneck cartridges like .357 sig; however, since it wasn't purpose-built for that niche, I don't know if it has any lasting legs for that niche though. 22 tcm is probably a better contender if for some reason FN's 5.7x28 or HK's 4.6x30 went by the wayside.
*One thing to note is that the transition to .357 sig does make a heck of a lot more sense than super hot 9mm +P++ subgun ammo like the Isrealis made for their uzis that could chamber and fire in handguns where it might be unsafe.
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I like my G32, dropped it in a Micro Roni braced chassis and I’m surprised how flat shooting a round it is out to 50 yards, compared to my other pistol caliber carbines in 9mm, .45acp & 10mm.
If you only want one caliber, 9mm is certainly a good choice. But that’s boring.
Shame there aren’t more firearms in this caliber.
One thing I’ve always liked about .357sig is it’s available in mid-size/subcompact sized pistols, if you want a 10mm handgun you’re stuck with a full sized frame.
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Gratuitous picture of my 357SIG SP-01. I've been working up a LeHigh defense bullet with AA#7 that could be interesting. Otherwise I am able to push a 125 Gold dot over 1500fps without signs of pressure. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210816/0dd7dd0d3c52172f93a03001273f2923.jpg)
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That is really a nice piece!
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How does she shoot? Have a S2 being fitted with a TS 40 slide and a 357 Sig barrel. Work is being done by CZ Custom. Have plenty of guns to shoot, but I really miss the S2. Have very high expectations on this one.
JW
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It shoots accurate and flat. I can put a group of 10 rounds in the size of a fist on a USPSA target at 25 yards shooting with about 2 second splits between shots. I think the 357SIG is inherently more accurate than the 40 S&W (which is the other barrel for it) but they are pretty close. The trigger/action components have all been polished/coated as well as factor springs replaced with lower return spring, 13lb main spring, etc so the trigger pull is fairly good. I had CZ custom rechamber the 9mm barrel and then I had to machine off the bottom lug and do final fitting. It has a CZ custom 10x bushing which probably has more to do with the groups than anything. I think I might have to change up the factory 40S&W recoil spring as it launches brass (both with higher pressure loads and practice loads). Other than that, it's about perfect for my use and will continue use as my "bed stand" gun. One last plug.... I really like the CZ Custom gold outline tritium sight for defense purposes. I find it great for picking up in the daytime.
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huskerlrrp,
Agree with you on the 357 Sig being more accurate than 40. It usually takes me 7 to 10 test loads to come up with a good 40 load. 357 Sig it is usually 3. And that is just so I get a comparison on which of the powder primer combinations meet the velocity standard and I have something to choose from. Only had one bullet that I could not get to shoot well out of my SIG 229, and it was the Berry's bullet with that firearm. Would shoot fine in others just not that one.
Have the gold outline tritium front sight on a couple my defensive pistols.
Best wishes.
JW
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Huge fan of the caliber here. And this is my favorite gun in .357 Sig
(https://www.genitron.com/HandgunDB/DBImages/sig-P229-Sport.gif)
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I regret not getting a SIG Sport pistol. I suppose the gas of the 357 SIG really works with the comp. Splendid example.
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Had a chance to buy one of the all stainless 229 Sports with both barrels. Greatly regret not jumping on that one.
JW