The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: grapnel on September 21, 2019, 11:19:45 AM
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I can't find it on the data tables at Alliant or Hodgdon. It plunks at 1.085, so I'm looking for 124gr JHP loads near 1.07, and there's nothing of the sort that I can find on powder manufacturer sites. Some of the reviews of the bullet at RMR gave load data for around 5 gr of CFE at near that length, but I don't have that powder. I have Power Pistol, Longshot, Universal, Unique, and HP-38. I've been sitting on these bullets for a couple of years, bought them when there was buzz about the new in-house design.
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I found some data for 124gr XTP bullets at a C.O.L. of 1.06" in the Hornady 9th edition Handbook. They show Unique, and Power Pistol from your list of on hand powders. I don't know how the RMR MPR and the Hornady XTP compare in shape, length etc, but this could be a place to start.
Good luck and stay safe.
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I've been loading them over 4.0 or 4.1 gr of titegroup at 1.080 for my sp01 and hk vp9.
I won't get to chrono that load until next weekend but it shoots well.
Obviously not your powder and you need to work up your own.
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HP-38 and Win 231 are the exact same powder. That's going to be your best bet for finding some load data and obtaining shootable results. Check that out.
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I had been loading them with 4.0-4.1 Gr of Win 231 @ 1.085. I have shot them on my shadow 2, TSO, X5 and both 8”/16” barreled MPX.
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Mr Grapnel -
So how are you doing ?
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I had been loading them with 4.0-4.1 Gr of Win 231 @ 1.085. I have shot them on my shadow 2, TSO, X5 and both 8”/16” barreled MPX.
My shadow two will plunk at that but if I spin the cartridge in the barrel I can feel the bullet scraping on the rifling. To long for my barrel. Black blue shadow 2.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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I had been loading them with 4.0-4.1 Gr of Win 231 @ 1.085. I have shot them on my shadow 2, TSO, X5 and both 8”/16” barreled MPX.
My shadow two will plunk at that but if I spin the cartridge in the barrel I can feel the bullet scraping on the rifling. To long for my barrel. Black blue shadow 2.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Check your crimp and make sure the flare has been removed. After the loaded round goes through my crimp die, the flare has been removed and the measurement is about .377-.378. It plunks and spins in my shadow 2 chamber without any problems.
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Check your crimp and make sure the flare has been removed. After the loaded round goes through my crimp die, the flare has been removed and the measurement is about .377-.378. It plunks and spins in my shadow 2 chamber without any problems.
Good point. I'm working the kinks out of my cz reloading and just compiled my previous oal's by bullet and then by barrel.
The shadow 2 was one of my first ones and I can't be certain I removed the bell. Thanks for the tip. I'm planning on rechecking all barrels and tests before working up loads to chrony
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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Have you contacted RMR about this? They might have something that will work.
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My shadow two will plunk at that but if I spin the cartridge in the barrel I can feel the bullet scraping on the rifling. Too long for my barrel. Black blue shadow 2.
IMHO, absolutely the wrong test. Color the entire front of the cartridge with a Sharpie marker, then spin it. The marker will be scraped off where it's rubbing.
You may be surprised.
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The shadow 2 was one of my first ones and I can't be certain I removed the bell.
Yes you can. Simply read this.... https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=78873.0
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Mr Grapnel -
So how are you doing ?
can't complain. 8)
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Have you contacted RMR about this? They might have something that will work.
I'll give it a shot. I'm sure I can work with the suggestions in this thread as well, once I can actually get to the range without interruptions.
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I can't find it on the data tables at Alliant or Hodgdon. It plunks at 1.085, so I'm looking for 124gr JHP loads near 1.07, and there's nothing of the sort that I can find on powder manufacturer sites.
Are is some Hornady data at 1.040". You should be safe using that....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fX7NtIZyk6rX3pljHNAyOsNg_yVQ-nCNStzdi0Pr_wD3PMh25FVdzd4zkKUsa7UWE3e213e300YbozmwY4LOh-IgWFhs-7yzixhz41iErULLjGwOXMg0ffqQdyX-FO04oSZxHnFfSM2YPhBPv_xg_Rmx_vszFlWWez7eIrDKegF9AmzQibL-bNwEoUqcYwHErDk6Ju8dPa55jyK2yamQ45tc1j8RAKbRwAH06c-y0NRJ76RfzGPp7h3B8Vis5ATkmZk9jHxqbNkfMJqMBMmlNcpabFMw474jDCXussoOsfwBHUBNUDrfurvkY--QizTkJXWp6DKIXV95vlzkzbaQ8dhJ5kLPJCJKHlOqRBLpkn9ktgeWb_p3I-OxtuB6zjj2Dl0GjUoFN-WBrI67Z6lCMyrFC0fXQDuLf5jBEnUTfcxLcoXJPPpirLn-2Ke-LUqf0mhO0j96EsfkYqBp4IogphoG0jEYRc4i5c44YGtiJ0FA5I1HJaNwaql-tfIp2qc6wr753zU4vKTfOD_ScEPTTbvq6PVHt2nC9aL4n9JY0YPEtryKJTHsMqFrO-2ojI5tnNwevXzNGh0TpGgY6SqWf7nyephpBZtHS0WnkWViiKqpifAxc5GyxL5P26fbJhSAFE1Z3PWt6sIPLWE2hZDi8-1E8pb3JjeDqVp1MgHYNaDogTs5gr_0bx8=w1117-h857-no)
So 3.9 to 5.2gr at OALs as short as 1.040".
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Thanks!
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I had been loading them with 4.0-4.1 Gr of Win 231 @ 1.085. I have shot them on my shadow 2, TSO, X5 and both 8”/16” barreled MPX.
My shadow two will plunk at that but if I spin the cartridge in the barrel I can feel the bullet scraping on the rifling. To long for my barrel. Black blue shadow 2.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Check your crimp and make sure the flare has been removed. After the loaded round goes through my crimp die, the flare has been removed and the measurement is about .377-.378. It plunks and spins in my shadow 2 chamber without any problems.
Everything checked.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mz3PW5qEpsDoSfkB6 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mz3PW5qEpsDoSfkB6)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hiVwInuOHajwTd5T27fdq7b42WESfGgHaM6ZuxfsmnvGdRNyBfDan1r3ZeMdgqVYRk_2gzNr_FzUCY5riwNJXBqCDbljYoUhIgbTZ2Z5IiH0Lc5_-zeB8-GGR0zfyMM651sSnJNj3ICQ4mhuC74_ITLg2VGiXXlMusAoKxh4fFEC8jxcN0tYcqmoG41A6eQacI_Ha9_Isqa9GnU-jecEFOkl7qrlsiLdyZNsz3-PTVDFU4Ns2k3PidNEvpS96QAn2ITAax7ryxwc1PSRIeXeBFHpIaMT3wmwmHDxFhhehVGXcsi0f5a5Uj57G0nk7vTGIDUCk6TuvHE8_ThecxuqtHejQeEr8AIy__FVUq7a_iNJolX6DI6xnPjTYI14yQLm5jgjauISlC8OTREzIMtLtaHztD7fIyKA0P5A57Nzu_u5EPiOd7WoufamCcWgsp7A0UNrSI-oUlp5Kgl6jKPFjqZ14_bBnHKTjWbuiDk6qttDE8xehMoQoGM8z6AR-FJnrgn6yVrw5FVW155uy2OyLNIwrwy0Iu6lWTjsBvzRG4Wi71g0TzuYaoId0DLmc3BtYmSJFEqbHEM2AuraIlu7IeiSgsMBuyOvN3XxBXoGCtDOBPVUqkMe5jo08vmPz8anEFVcR70UhCyb4QDrctb3CW514oJAUmOiCcW-f-sYxssk4DHBFEMPgQ=w352-h625-no)
RMR 124 Gr MPR JHP will scrape the sharpie off the bullet even seated to 1.0435
I didn't keep seating as that's enough for me to choose a different bullet.
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Everything checked.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mz3PW5qEpsDoSfkB6 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mz3PW5qEpsDoSfkB6)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hiVwInuOHajwTd5T27fdq7b42WESfGgHaM6ZuxfsmnvGdRNyBfDan1r3ZeMdgqVYRk_2gzNr_FzUCY5riwNJXBqCDbljYoUhIgbTZ2Z5IiH0Lc5_-zeB8-GGR0zfyMM651sSnJNj3ICQ4mhuC74_ITLg2VGiXXlMusAoKxh4fFEC8jxcN0tYcqmoG41A6eQacI_Ha9_Isqa9GnU-jecEFOkl7qrlsiLdyZNsz3-PTVDFU4Ns2k3PidNEvpS96QAn2ITAax7ryxwc1PSRIeXeBFHpIaMT3wmwmHDxFhhehVGXcsi0f5a5Uj57G0nk7vTGIDUCk6TuvHE8_ThecxuqtHejQeEr8AIy__FVUq7a_iNJolX6DI6xnPjTYI14yQLm5jgjauISlC8OTREzIMtLtaHztD7fIyKA0P5A57Nzu_u5EPiOd7WoufamCcWgsp7A0UNrSI-oUlp5Kgl6jKPFjqZ14_bBnHKTjWbuiDk6qttDE8xehMoQoGM8z6AR-FJnrgn6yVrw5FVW155uy2OyLNIwrwy0Iu6lWTjsBvzRG4Wi71g0TzuYaoId0DLmc3BtYmSJFEqbHEM2AuraIlu7IeiSgsMBuyOvN3XxBXoGCtDOBPVUqkMe5jo08vmPz8anEFVcR70UhCyb4QDrctb3CW514oJAUmOiCcW-f-sYxssk4DHBFEMPgQ=w352-h625-no)
RMR 124 Gr MPR JHP will scrape the sharpie off the bullet even seated to 1.0435
I didn't keep seating as that's enough for me to choose a different bullet.
I don't think you're reading that correctly. Forget the Sharpie spin thing, what did the plain vanilla telescoping push test tell you ?
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Alas,
I'm more often a Victim of my OCD than not. Occasionally I can use it to my advantage but I may have become overzealous on this one.
Let me start over.
Took my OCD and ran with it. Completed my plunk tests, forget the sharpie. Got some confirmed numbers. Loaded up some testing and went to the outdoor range with my chronograph. Here's what I got:
1.060 will plunk and spin in my two tightest barrels: Springfield XDS Circa 2014 and my Shadow 2
1.080 Was loaded for my SP01 and VP9 as I needed some ammo for the wife's VP9 and I cranked this load out!
Results still being compiled but here is the initial results of my OCD since Wobbly's reply.
I have attached a doc with some results from my chrono day. Below is the link.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YOTsprxhyEz8YzMeUWmjakHhuWh0UNOQ (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YOTsprxhyEz8YzMeUWmjakHhuWh0UNOQ)
Please review. Data is still being processed and has not be double checked 100% so if you see an error don't hesitate to hit me up.
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• First of all, in your shoes, I'd be loading one OAL for each bullet that satisfies all your 9mm barrels. Mr Murphy predicts that a time will come when cartridges will get inter-mixed and slides will fail to go into battery, thereby loosing you points needlessly.
There is zero advantage in loading bullets a little bit longer for another barrel. It's OK to load 4.0gr for the SP-01 and 4.2gr for another pistol simply based on accuracy. But let's not confuse the special steps we take for accuracy and those we take for safety.
• Secondly, in looking at your strings on the first page. There seems to be a huge drop in Std Deviation between the first and second string. Same load and same pistol. What happened ?
;)
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• First of all, in your shoes, I'd be loading one OAL for each bullet that satisfies all your 9mm barrels. Mr Murphy predicts that a time will come when cartridges will get inter-mixed and slides will fail to go into battery, thereby loosing you points needlessly.
There is zero advantage in loading bullets a little bit longer for another barrel. It's OK to load 4.0gr for the SP-01 and 4.2gr for another pistol simply based on accuracy. But let's not confuse the special steps we take for accuracy and those we take for safety.
• Secondly, in looking at your strings on the first page. There seems to be a huge drop in Std Deviation between the first and second string. Same load and same pistol. What happened ?
;)
Agree Wholeheartedly. I will soon have one cartridge OAL that will function with all my 9mm's. I've only got about 1500 of the 1.080 cartridge and I have marked them for my wife. The load card inside the box states VP9/SP01 ONLY and the exterior of the box has blue tap with OAL and ONLY VP9 and SP01 on it.
The 1.055 OAL box is equally labeled for all our 9mm's.
This issue is only with the RMR MPR JHP 124 Grains. The Matchwinner TCFP 124's and Precision Delta JHP's will also function in all firearms.
With that said. My drop in Stnd Dev. on that second string I have no idea. Cloud cover coming and going effecting readings maybe. I'll be working on some more test ammo and another trip to the outdoor range when time permits. The indoor doesn't allow it for obvious reasons.
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Light is very important with your chrono, as is battery power. Too much light is worse than low light. I usually wait until after 4PM when it's still "bright" but the sun is not overhead. If I must test at mid-day, I set a white sheet, white picnic tent, or some other translucent white diffuser over the chrono. I never use the "sun shades" that come with the unit.