The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: Pistolet on October 07, 2019, 06:58:36 PM
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I am building a reloading and gun cleaning room in my old, drafty, cold and humid in winter, garage. It's not very big (5'X7') but this is all the space I can obtain. Last winter I moved everything into my office and it was a mess. I am starting with a thick layer of plastic covered with cement board and a good layer of thin-set. No more lost primers! The walls and ceiling will be insulated, there will be an electric vent to the outside for those Hoppes and Balistol fumes. The door will lock.
I have a good solid bench covered with 1/2" plywood. Here are my questions:
1 Should I leave the bench top plywood untreated or should I seal it with something?
2 The bench is 43" in height, I am 6'2". Is this a good height if I am using a Dillon 550 with no ultramount?
3 It stays above freezing in California but I need a space heater. I know it's a fire hazard. Would an infrared heater be safer?
4 Do you see any thing else I haven't thought of?
(https://i.imgur.com/F8tCwmo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UKU2oq4.jpg)
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I would at the least add another 1/2" sheet of plywood to the bench top. I use solid core door blanks for my benches, stained w/clear urethane. They've held up great for the past 4-5 years. I'll check the height tomorrow, I use a Hornady LnL w/o ultramount(I'm 6'3").
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Agree with another layer of plywood.
Will you ever work on a gun on that bench? If so you might think about a finish that would help you see small parts when they escape your finger tips/frame of the gun. Shelves/old kitchen type cabinets for component storage, dies, etc. that you won't want on the bench all the time.
Lights. Bright lights are nice when examining brass, reading a scale, setting up the scale/calibrating, etc. and examining your results as you work through the steps of reloading - or to trouble shoot a problem.
Sufficient outlets to supply power to an extra light, charge up your phone (cellular or a home phone you keep in the reloading room) or for a radio. I won't have a TV around while reloading but I like some background classic rock.
Get a work bench type adjustable chair/stool so you can fine tune the seat height and back height/distance back from the seat. Then, if you don't get the bench "perfect" you can use the seat to compensate.
That bench. Any bench. You never notice when it's sturdy enough. You will notice if it's not.
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Hey, congrats! That's a big step.
My thoughts...
• A sheet of coarser plywood under the existing top, OR place a 24x24" sheet locally under the press. Then no matter what, add a third leg in the front middle. You only need to worry about the area around the press; primers and books never stressed a bench !
• Don't discount a Strong Mount (or UltraMount). They sit the press much further back onto the center of the bench top AND spread the load over a MUCH greater area. Without it you get into a lot of localized stress, and thus bending of the front lip of the bench. On your bench it will be easy to shorten the legs to account for the added height. Once you load using one, you'll never want to load again without one.
• Dillon recommends having the op lever ball at shoulder height (when the ram is at bottom) when you are in your normal (sitting or standing) loading position. I like standing to load, and recommend those mats restaurant workers stand on.
• You're going to want to bolt that bench to the studs in the wall behind it. Mark the stud locations or get a "stud finder".
• Consider a dehumidifier, which will keep all your stuff from rusting AND cast off heat. Buy one that can be piped to the outside and simply let it run. You'll be plenty warm in winter, and with the aid of a ceiling fan, be cooler in summer.
• You're going to want more electrical outlets, around you and above you. Putting them in now is much easier than later. Remember, anything that plugs in avoids inspection now, and allows you to upgrade easier in the future.
Hope this helps.
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No more lost primers!
Won't to bet. ;D
Lights. Bright lights
Sufficient outlets
Any bench. You never notice when it's sturdy enough. You will notice if it's not.
YES more lights never to much, you can always turn some off, I have converted to LED's and love them.
Good luck and enjoy the process.
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Okay, it's about 90% finished for now. I still need to organize and sort stuff. It's not very big but it's ready for winter. There's a transverse 2X4 right under the press, the bench is solidly screwed to the wall it's not moving but I might add a leg right below it. Strong mount is on the list as well as a cabinet or shelving of some kind. The vise is gone. more lights to come.
(https://i.imgur.com/GHbBkGT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Mmf4wvN.jpg)
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Looks great.
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Looks good! Do you have issues with the scale sitting on the same bench as the press? I had to move mine off the bench so it didn't get confused and stayed consistent. Guessing it was due to the vibrations of the press when cycling to adjusting the powder drop.
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Looks good! Do you have issues with the scale sitting on the same bench as the press? I had to move mine off the bench so it didn't get confused and stayed consistent. Guessing it was due to the vibrations of the press when cycling to adjusting the powder drop.
I haven't had any issues. I keep a piece of check-weight of 500mg/7.7gr right net to it that I check often. And I like to keep a tray underneath to catch any spillage. The only time my Dillon powder-measure varies is when it sits overnight, then it will drop a couple of tenth more on the first one or two loads.
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That is freakin Awesome!!!!
Nicely played SIR
I am jealous!
RCG
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Good to know. I also have various check weights and it always zeros, it just seems that the vibration from the press operation will affect the results. So, I just place it on a small table next to the bench and haven't had problems - unless I leave the ceiling fan on. ::)
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If you find that you need more outlets at table top level, take a look at one of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BESTEK-Power-Strip-Tower-8-Outlet-and-6-Smart-USB-Charging-Ports-1500-Joules/352779261358? I re-did an existing room for reloading a couple of years ago and didn't want to change any wiring. I sit one of these at the far end of my bench and it runs everything I need on the bench top: two lights on my press, separate LED desk light, two digital scales, etc. All the USB ports also come in handy to recharge bike lights, computer, anything that gets power through a USB. Small footprint too.
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Looks great! What happened with the window on your first photo? Did you decide to get rid of daylight?
I have a workshop attachment to my garage with window and my desk is just opposite it. I use it for all kinds of work, including guns cleaning and maintenance, but I haven't started reloading yet. This location is humid and cold in winter, bad insulation and no centralized heating (it is just +7-10 degrees warmer than outside). When it is really cold I turn on portable heater, but the temperature is rarely higher than 58F.
I might be eventually use my workshop for reloading, but will store powder and other stuff in more dry areas.
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Looks great! What happened with the window on your first photo? Did you decide to get rid of daylight?
I have a workshop attachment to my garage with window and my desk is just opposite it. I use it for all kinds of work, including guns cleaning and maintenance, but I haven't started reloading yet. This location is humid and cold in winter, bad insulation and no centralized heating (it is just +7-10 degrees warmer than outside). When it is really cold I turn on portable heater, but the temperature is rarely higher than 58F.
I might be eventually use my workshop for reloading, but will store powder and other stuff in more dry areas.
The window is blocked temporarily until I find a used one that opens on a jobsite (I work in construction) and I need shades, the white building across the yard blinds me in the afternoons. It does feel a little claustrophobic though and I might have to fork out a hundred and twenty or more for a new one.
If you can isolate the floor from humidity and build a couple of walls you will have a much better space.
My reloading room is probably going to keep the rest of the garage from collapsing in the future.
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That is freakin Awesome!!!!
Nicely played SIR
I am jealous!
Seconded ! Seriously nice.
If you find that you need more outlets at table top level, take a look at one of these:
Here's what I use. You take off the outlet's faceplate, plug this into the outlet, then attach it as if it were a faceplate with the center screw....
GE Outlet Extender (https://www.amazon.com/GE-6-Outlet-Extender-Grounded-56575/dp/B001UE7SBY/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=gE+outlet+doubler&qid=1571180655&sr=8-2)
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Wobbly: That would not have helped me, the only outlet I could access was beneath the table I used. Plus, all the USB ports really come in handy for me. Lots of options.
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Both outlet ideas are great but Wobbly's suggestion is more within my budget. Any ideas for extra lighting?
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Regarding heat: yes a typical space heater could pose a fire hazard. No, infrared is not much better. Either style may have an element hot enough to ignite errant powder dust. The infrared still has an element (lamp) glowing orange hot, it's just hidden from view.
I would use hot water or electric radiant baseboard.
A small strip of electric baseboard is cheap and does not reach ignition temperatures. Or, you could build a heater box containing a small coil and fan. Maybe go to autozone and buy the smallest cheapest radiator they have. Run hot water thru it and blow air thru that into your shop. Set it up to avoid creating drafts near your scale.
You could possibly run a bunch of pex tubing on your ceiling. Push domestic hot water thru it with a small circulating pump and get radiant heat. Put reflective foil and some foam insulation on the ceiling before attaching the pex. Only run the pump when you want heat.
If you were just starting this project I would have recommended building a 2x4 floor platform to raise your room off the slab. That would have created space to insulate and install radiant heat beneath the floor of your man closet. You would probably never want to leave once you felt the comfort of a warm floor.
Just some crazy ideas from Michigan where we envy your climate but pity your oppression.
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You could pick up those oil filled radiant electric heaters pretty cheap. Seen them at thrift stores and at yard sales. They work very well in small places! A friend who is getting ready to sell his house offered me one - free - maybe you'll get lucky too.
Lowe's has them for $34
https://www.lowes.com/pd/PELONIS-5-200-BTU-Oil-Filled-Radiant-Cabinet-Electric-Space-Heater-with-Thermostat/1000108031?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-bing-_-pla-_-171-_-electricandgarageheat-_-1000108031-_-0&kpid&msclkid=b312505b6b0519150e170dfc782d3b24&gclid=CIGJguTpoOUCFaYFiAkdBTADcw&gclsrc=ds
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You could pick up those oil filled radiant electric heaters pretty cheap. Seen them at thrift stores and at yard sales. They work very well in small places! A friend who is getting ready to sell his house offered me one - free - maybe you'll get lucky too.
Lowe's has them for $34
https://www.lowes.com/pd/PELONIS-5-200-BTU-Oil-Filled-Radiant-Cabinet-Electric-Space-Heater-with-Thermostat/1000108031?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-bing-_-pla-_-171-_-electricandgarageheat-_-1000108031-_-0&kpid&msclkid=b312505b6b0519150e170dfc782d3b24&gclid=CIGJguTpoOUCFaYFiAkdBTADcw&gclsrc=ds
I just found an electric oil radiator that I forgot I had. I'll try it.
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Regarding heat: yes a typical space heater could pose a fire hazard. No, infrared is not much better. Either style may have an element hot enough to ignite errant powder dust. The infrared still has an element (lamp) glowing orange hot, it's just hidden from view.
I would use hot water or electric radiant baseboard.
A small strip of electric baseboard is cheap and does not reach ignition temperatures. Or, you could build a heater box containing a small coil and fan. Maybe go to autozone and buy the smallest cheapest radiator they have. Run hot water thru it and blow air thru that into your shop. Set it up to avoid creating drafts near your scale.
You could possibly run a bunch of pex tubing on your ceiling. Push domestic hot water thru it with a small circulating pump and get radiant heat. Put reflective foil and some foam insulation on the ceiling before attaching the pex. Only run the pump when you want heat.
If you were just starting this project I would have recommended building a 2x4 floor platform to raise your room off the slab. That would have created space to insulate and install radiant heat beneath the floor of your man closet. You would probably never want to leave once you felt the comfort of a warm floor.
Just some crazy ideas from Michigan where we envy your climate but pity your oppression.
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I would never have had the head room for a raised floor. Part of the deal O0 with my wife is to have storage room above my man closet for us to put stuff cause we have a small house.
I like the idea of a strip of electric baseboard, I will look into it.
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Any ideas for extra lighting?
First of all, you gotta get yourself some in-press UFO lighting from KMS Squared. Don't waste you money on anything else.
Secondly, get those reading lamps with the flexible goosenecks from the thrift store and put the "daylight" white bulbs in them, either CFL or LED. They usually have weighted bases and the ability to snake around and shine right where you need it. Thrift stores in my area have those for about $3 ea.
;)
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Nice bright lights are really important for all the visual inspections you need to be making.
I sat down two days ago to reload some 9MM at my old bench.
Picked up the Blue Dot, put about 1/2 a hopper full in the electronical measure/scale.
Turned it on, let it warm up a bit.
Calibrated it.
Set the unit up to give me the desired weight.
Calibrated/checked the mechanical scale.
Started the electronic unit up and began measuring the first few charge weights and started putting the powder in the cases.
Part of the way through I went from just looking at how much powder was in the cases (visual inspection before putting a bullet in the case mouth) to a really bad feeling of, "OH NO! I've got the wrong powder! There are no blue flakes in it. How did I grab the wrong powder?? I know I grabbed the right powder. Why doesn't it have the blue flakes?" I looked down at the can and sure enough it was Blue Dot. Why no blue flakes?
Then I realized I'd never turned my bright overhead light on flicked the switch to on. BLUE FLAKES!!! In the powder. The powder went from a dull gray to dull gray with blue flakes.
Nice lighting is important.
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Regarding heat: yes a typical space heater could pose a fire hazard. No, infrared is not much better. Either style may have an element hot enough to ignite errant powder dust.
I don't quite follow this.
I understand that small particles suspended in air can be explosive. That's why sealed motors are used in flour mills, coal mines, and other places with dust filled atmospheres. But I don't think pouring smokeless powder from a can into a powder measure hopper can form that type dust. Unlike the aforementioned powders, smokeless powder only comes in a single granule size. I'm not aware that it gets "airborne" and saturates a room. I've never read of reloaders blowing their garages off the ends of their homes for this reason.
Just wondering what data you have to support this view.
I agree it's not optimal. I agree that Tinker Bell with her pixie dust should be barred from the room. But I think sparks and open flame might be the big issue. But they are always an issue in any environment. Concentrated heat is a distant second, so he shouldn't store his powder and primers on the floor 12" from the mouth of the heater. But I don't get the 'errant powder' thing.
;)
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Both outlet ideas are great but Wobbly's suggestion is more within my budget. Any ideas for extra lighting?
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I just checked my power outlet I mentioned above and there are 4 of the 8 outlets in use. 2 for LED lights and 2 for digital scales. All use transformers that take up space and all are at different positions but not conflicting with each other. If you go with the add-on outlet suggested, you will likely lose the use of several of the outlets. I ran into this issue before building my new reloading room and avoided it with the unit I bought.
As for lights, I use both the UFO and In-line Fab on the press and have a high power LED desk lamp too. I also keep a small LED flashlight on the bench to use when I need to read the settings on the micrometer adjusters on my powder measures and seating dies.
I live in FL so no help on heaters.......ask me about AC, we run it year round.👍👍😀😀
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Wobbly, I'm not suggesting a dust explosion is imminent or even likely. None of us would ever stay in our reloading rooms while particulate concentrations ever approached that level. What i am suggesting is that conventional (cheap)resistance element space heaters can get hot to a point of incandescence. Infrared heaters have a quartz lamp that is similarly hot but hidden from view. In either case, a flake of powder floating around to that element could ignite. If you've ever touched a flame to a pile of smokeless powder, you know it just sort of fizzes and sparks. I would expect a little spit of sparks out the front of the heater if this ever happened but I still don't want it to happen. Fact is, if you were to hepa vac my reload room, I'm sure you would capture a fair amount of rogue powder. Having processed maybe 100 lbs of powder over the years, its inevitable that a few mg have escaped. There is a non zero chance that a few sparks out of the front of a heater might lead to a brief flash across the floor. Hopefully it stops there but we usually have solvents present, rags, etc. Best idea is to eliminate any ignition source, and I count space heaters as one.
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You can buy an outlet with USB ports as well as the standard 110 volt plug ins - if you have anything that requires power through a USB port.
I installed those on the walls between the base and wall cabinets on both sets of cabinets I installed in the house.
The make surge protector sets with that set up, too.
My youngest son installed a power strip, like this one, above his work bench in the garage. It allows him to plug his cordless tool batter chargers in with plenty of room for all the oddball sized plugs, transformers, etc. those can have. Since only one or two are actually charging at a time it's not a big load on the outlet the power strip is plugged into.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/MonoSystems-8-Outlet-Silver-Power-Strip/1000394551
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Since only one or two are actually charging at a time it's not a big load on the outlet the power strip is plugged into.
And that's my thinking too. First of all, forget about anything LED. They don't pull any power at all. Then secondly, you can discount anything with a "wall wart" power supply. They are usually under 1 amp. That leaves an array of items like case trimmers, case prep centers, and case feeders... none of which are used at the same time.
So multiple outlets don't always equate to huge power consumption. It's more about having them plugged in for the sake of "ease of use" than anything else.
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I've been thinking about this heating issue, and have come up with the best way. As I understand it your new loading area is right up against your house.
The cheapest, easiest, quickest, and safest way to do this is to tap into your existing forced air system for your home. All it would take is a flexible 4" duct; the type typically used to connect clothes dryers. You'd be tapping about 1% of your furnace/AC units blower ability, so your home would never know the difference. That solution has the added advantage of bringing in low humidity air, which will safeguard all your equipment.
You wouldn't need a return duct. The leaks around the door and wall joints will take care of that. You might need to add insulation around the 4" duct if it's a long run though an unheated area.
I presently load in my basement area, directly below my living quarters. Not having any vents in the basement meant the humidity was hard to control. I bought a 4" hole saw and tapped into the existing supply duct work by simply drilling a single hole. That's all it took. The air is no longer stagnant and stale-ish. Just having "fresh" air brought in dropped the humidity by 8 points in a 1500 sq-ft basement. I'm seriously considering drilling one more. :o
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Secondly, get those reading lamps with the flexible goosenecks from the thrift store and put the "daylight" white bulbs in them, either CFL or LED. They usually have weighted bases and the ability to snake around and shine right where you need it. Thrift stores in my area have those for about $3 ea.
Dang! I was in thrift store today with the idea of getting some photos of the type lamps I like and there on the shelf, buried in the back, was an LED reading lamp on a 18" goose-neck for $3.95. That was about 95 cents over budget, but it was in such a nice mauve color... and I have been trying hard to get in touch with my softer side... so I bought it.
Photos later.
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Congratulations on your mauve lamp.
May you have many enjoyable years with it.😄
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I've been thinking about this heating issue, and have come up with the best way. As I understand it your new loading area is right up against your house.
The cheapest, easiest, quickest, and safest way to do this is to tap into your existing forced air system for your home. All it would take is a flexible 4" duct; the type typically used to connect clothes dryers. You'd be tapping about 1% of your furnace/AC units blower ability, so your home would never know the difference. That solution has the added advantage of bringing in low humidity air, which will safeguard all your equipment.
Sounds like a good idea but my house is not that modern ;D . built in 1905 it has a detached garage more like a barn actually. As far as the heating system, I got rid of the gas furnace that was in the crawl space, the kind that sits under a grill on the living room floor and I replaced it with a gas thing that looks like a wood stove that works just fine. So no air ducts or blowers. Most old houses around here are like that.
I think the oil radiator will work in the reloading room. It's small and well insulated.
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Secondly, get those reading lamps with the flexible goosenecks from the thrift store and put the "daylight" white bulbs in them, either CFL or LED. They usually have weighted bases and the ability to snake around and shine right where you need it. Thrift stores in my area have those for about $3 ea.
Dang! I was in thrift store today with the idea of getting some photos of the type lamps I like and there on the shelf, buried in the back, was an LED reading lamp on a 18" goose-neck for $3.95. That was about 95 cents over budget, but it was in such a nice mauve color... and I have been trying hard to get in touch with my softer side... so I bought it.
Photos later.
you could always spend 10x the cost of the lamp to Cerakote it a better color. ;D
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Bear in mind that a decent sized dehumidifier puts out a substantial amount of heat. My room is in the basement, and the dehumidifier puts out sufficient heat to keep if very comfortable all winter long..
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Bear in mind that a decent sized dehumidifier puts out a substantial amount of heat. My room is in the basement, and the dehumidifier puts out sufficient heat to keep if very comfortable all winter long..
Thanks, I'll look into that
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I love having a dedicated reloading room! It's a game-changer for organization and efficiency. I can set up my equipment just how I like it and enjoy reloading without any distractions. Highly recommended!
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The desk lamps I was talking about earlier are from Ikea. They are now showing up in thrift stores.
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/naevlinge-led-work-lamp-white-00404925/
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Building a dedicated reloading room sounds like a great idea! I recently built one at the last floor of my house and it has been a game-changer. It's nice to have a space where I can focus on my reloading hobby without any distractions.
I spent a lot of time planning the layout and organization of the room to make it efficient and safe. I made sure to have proper ventilation and lighting, and I invested in good-quality equipment to ensure accurate and consistent reloading.
By the way, if you're interested in making your house feel like something out of a James Bond movie, I also got an elevator installed in my home. It was quite the process, but it's definitely worth it. The guys from hinchong.com (https://hinchong.com/) took care of everything. My house feels so luxurious now, and it's convenient to have an elevator for accessing different floors.
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Regarding heat: yes a typical space heater could pose a fire hazard. No, infrared is not much better. Either style may have an element hot enough to ignite errant powder dust.
I don't quite follow this.
I understand that small particles suspended in air can be explosive. That's why sealed motors are used in flour mills, coal mines, and other places with dust filled atmospheres. But I don't think pouring smokeless powder from a can into a powder measure hopper can form that type dust. Unlike the aforementioned powders, smokeless powder only comes in a single granule size. I'm not aware that it gets "airborne" and saturates a room. I've never read of reloaders blowing their garages off the ends of their homes for this reason.
Just wondering what data you have to support this view.
I agree it's not optimal. I agree that Tinker Bell with her pixie dust should be barred from the room. But I think sparks and open flame might be the big issue. But they are always an issue in any environment. Concentrated heat is a distant second, so he shouldn't store his powder and primers on the floor 12" from the mouth of the heater. But I don't get the 'errant powder' thing.
;)
I don't follow the fear of "explosiveness" with smokeless powder either, Wobbly. Yes, bad things can happen; and when they do, it is too late.
First off, take a bit of your favorite smokeless powder, lay out a line of it on some concrete, and then try lighting it with a lighter. I think whoever tries this will be very surprised, as I was, at what happens. It most likely will NOT be what you think will happen.
If we were loading with black powder, then I would be much more concerned with explosion hazards, hands down. The small amount of smokeless powder that is falling on the floor in most typical loading rooms is not a hazard for any problems, even when cleaning up/vacuuming. There just should not be enough to cause an electrical discharge explosion if you haven't let things get way out of hand. I have vacuumed up powder from my floors throughout the years, and have never had any problems.....no blown up vacuums, no errant fires in vacuum, no flash bangs in the room from powder/static electricity discharges.
By the fear of explosion put forth, even an unsealed/bare lightbulb is an explosive hazard. If that were the case, MANY persons reloading would have ended their careers before attaining old age, due to the supposed explosive hazard that smokeless powder has. Yes, it is used for controlled high pressure gas propellant, but this takes many times the energy input that some minute dust particle floating can impart to the rest of the powder container (this is assuming that you are NOT trying to ignite the whole container/powder magazine to accomplish this) from a heat source that has been discussed here.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/fkn4gt6P/20230709_112030[1].jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Ikea also makes this one that you can screw to the wall or under a cabinet, like I did. It saves valuable counter space.
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many years ago in a town near me I reloader blew up his reloading room. Not 100% sure how it happened but the news cast said it was do to him using a halogen lamp on his bench and I know those lamps got extremely hot. one never knows if the reloader told what really happened.
Maybe he didn't want to tell them he was smoking?