The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Right to Keep and Bear Arms => Topic started by: Insert on October 14, 2019, 11:03:51 PM
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Just found out about this in my states USCCA page
(https://i.imgur.com/HpTWI6u.jpg)
How could I possibly (legally) carry at all since I’d have to check every single establishment I enter? I can’t teleport to my gun to my cars glove compartment every time I see one of those signs. I always assumed (shame on me, I suppose) that these can be ignored legally since it’s just a businesses policy and not written into the the gun free zone act of 1990. At least in some other states you are granted the ability to leave the premise upon being caught but here in CT it’s just straight up a felony. I only started carrying very recently and now I don’t know anymore...
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In Ohio a business may post a no guns allowed sign and you are REQUIRED to heed the sign. It is a misdemeanor citation in most places if you are caught in violation. Government properties such as court houses and police stations are another matter.
I have no problem carrying most places I go since most places here do understand that bad people will do bad things regardless of signage. There are places that fly the sign though and signs must be posted at ALL entrances in plain sight so you can't post a sign in the back of the shop and try to catch someone carrying.
It is up to you to pay attention to where signs are posted and yes if you walk across the parking lot only to find a no guns sign posted then yes you have to walk all the way back and remove your gun. Since it is a felony where you are I would pay particular attention. If you are still unsure your very best bet here is to consult an attorney on the matter. I would not want to get hit with such a life altering charge based on information I got on an internet forum.
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When you carry, you quickly learn which businesses get your money and which ones do not.
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When you carry, you quickly learn which businesses get your money and which ones do not.
This is what I was going to say too.
I completely agree with this but I have yet to find a doctors office or hospital that allows carry on the premises so unfortunately allowances have to be made. I have turned around and walked away from many restaurants however.
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When you carry, you quickly learn which businesses get your money and which ones do not.
This is what I was going to say too.
I completely agree with this but I have yet to find a doctors office or hospital that allows carry on the premises so unfortunately allowances have to be made. I have turned around and walked away from many restaurants however.
Same here, sometimes disarming is prudent.
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Check a little deeper in to the physical requirements for the no firearms sign. Here's why.
In Texas, we have a very clear definition of the details of the sign. It has to be a certain size and have the exact wording prescribed by law. In other words, a Post-It note in pencil stuck on a window 6 feet from the entry door isn't sufficient. And a banner with 2 foot tall letters on an awning visible from a block away isn't sufficient either. The wording, font, size, color, and location of the sign is prescribed by Texas law. Intent to prohibit is not sufficient. The business owner must obtain and post the notice properly. A post-it note or index card won't cut it.
In Texas, some businesses try to have it both ways, with some success I think. The business owners will post a non-official sign that looks official enough for most people to think they are entering a no-carry zone, but most licensed-to-carry people see the sign does not meet the requirements and can choose to ignore the sign from a legal standpoint, IF the permit holder is carrying concealed. Everyone is happy, at least until one side or the other challenges the signage and presses the owner either to post the proper sign or take down the non-conforming one.
Joe
Joe
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If I conceal and they don't have metal detectors, they will never know. I love to break mental laws O0
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If I conceal and they don't have metal detectors, they will never know. I love to break mental laws O0
Agreed, and if they don't how would they know you are carrying? Should you need your firearm in their "no carry" establishment...would you care about their stupid no carry sign laws if you saved your life or the lives of your loved ones or other innocent patrons ? I'd take that chance.
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
See, that I’m fine with since I would probably never refuse to leave so therefore the potential consequence is very low. But if I’m charged with a felony straight up if I’m caught printing or whatever, then that makes me incredibly nervous about where I go when carrying. The problem is that it not only makes it a logistic nightmare to vet every store but it also adds complication to carry in general. Sometimes I’m not always the one driving or going back to the car isn’t really feasible. I’m probably going to consult a lawyer or someone knowledgeable locally since it seems every state that has this provision has all sorts of weird provisions about it. What a great and totally not confusing system we ha be to live with! I’m so glad I bothered to get my permit!
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Concealed or open carry is not even allowed at the gun ranges I visit.
Gun must be unloaded in the gun case or bag or in the holster, but holster must be in the bag.
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
See, that I’m fine with since I would probably never refuse to leave so therefore the potential consequence is very low. But if I’m charged with a felony straight up if I’m caught printing or whatever, then that makes me incredibly nervous about where I go when carrying. The problem is that it not only makes it a logistic nightmare to vet every store but it also adds complication to carry in general. Sometimes I’m not always the one driving or going back to the car isn’t really feasible. I’m probably going to consult a lawyer or someone knowledgeable locally since it seems every state that has this provision has all sorts of weird provisions about it. What a great and totally not confusing system we ha be to live with! I’m so glad I bothered to get my permit!
You're over complicating this, it isn't really that difficult. Once you actually start carrying you learn the ropes pretty quickly. You should be avoiding gun free zones and soft targets in general anyway. Concealed carry done correctly is about state of mind, awareness, and readiness. It's not a casual choice.
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Driving by the front door looking for a posted sign is an easy way to avoid walking up and having to walk back.
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
See, that I’m fine with since I would probably never refuse to leave so therefore the potential consequence is very low. But if I’m charged with a felony straight up if I’m caught printing or whatever, then that makes me incredibly nervous about where I go when carrying. The problem is that it not only makes it a logistic nightmare to vet every store but it also adds complication to carry in general. Sometimes I’m not always the one driving or going back to the car isn’t really feasible. I’m probably going to consult a lawyer or someone knowledgeable locally since it seems every state that has this provision has all sorts of weird provisions about it. What a great and totally not confusing system we ha be to live with! I’m so glad I bothered to get my permit!
You're over complicating this, it isn't really that difficult. Once you actually start carrying you learn the ropes pretty quickly. You should be avoiding gun free zones and soft targets in general anyway. Concealed carry done correctly is about state of mind, awareness, and readiness. It's not a casual choice.
I am well aware of gun free zones (ie schools and federal buildings) and while I don't agree with them at all, at least it's pretty cut and dry. As for a "casual choice", I feel as though I am advocating the opposite! I want to carry about as 100% as possible (minus the specific GFZ areas) and now the fact that I actually have to obey some dumb stores "no gun" sign (which I can't even find if there's a mandated sign so I guess they can post any kind of sign and I'd have to follow it lol) is pretty disheartening. Like as of now, I only know of one place where I get gas that has said sign but I have to be ready to disarm myself at any given storefront or property or risk receiving a felony; aka F-ing my whole life up. As for avoiding these signs, I think that's way easier said than done; like I sometimes have to go places in life where I don't have a choice. I could be over thinking this but finding this out really scared me. It's funny that I am more scared of not violating some stupid, unclear state law than any actual deadly threat lol.
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I'm a GA resident and travel a lot for work, primarily in the south east. It's a rarity to see a GFZ sign anywhere down here. I know several large retail outlets have adopted policies but implementing them is still sort of up in the air? Having grown up in NY I'm well aware that things are different from state to state. Bottom line is you need to be aware of local laws and abide by them. If you wind up in front of a judge chances are things will boil down to his/her Honor's political leanings. In the north east I don't like your odds :-)
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Give serious consideration to moving to a freer state.
Public accommodations that prohibit lawful carry are violating your civil rights. If Woolworth can't restrict who sits at their lunch counters on the basis of race, then they shouldn't be able to prohibit carry in their public establishments. The store manager can choose to associate with whom he wants at his home, and can ban his guests from carrying on his property, but under existing constitutional principles he can't discriminate at work against patrons due to race or lawful armament.
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I completely agree with this but I have yet to find a doctors office or hospital that allows carry on the premises so unfortunately allowances have to be made. I have turned around and walked away from many restaurants however.
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I am a physician and we allow carry at my office. indeed it is not uncommon for a patient to show me their new pistol.
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In our state, it is considered trespassing and you’re asked to leave. It’s an open carry state.
However, concealed means concealed.
If you’re minding your business and not acting like you’re trying to do something to draw attention to yourself, then I don’t see an issue. In downtown areas, I choose to carry discretely, even where there’s some sign that you can barely see.
It’s not a safe world. I’d rather have it and not need it.
Obviously, I adhere to federal restrictions such as schools, airports, police stations, court house, fed buildings, etc etc.
But a movie theatre or mall, sorry but I’m not going to be a helpless sheep.
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Yeah I definitely agree. I think I was over reacting a tad bit when I made this thread. I so far have only noticed one store in particular in my area that prohibits and I now check for signs everywhere. Not as common as I initially feared but I still will follow (unless the place is sketchy and I'm in a situation where I have no choice but to enter, yada yada...). I just felt taken aback by how stupidly strict this law is on principal however. Like a felony, really? lol
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
THis is EXACTLY how the law works in MA. The property owner can post the "no guns allowed" and if you are found in possession and refuse to leave you an be found guilty of trespassing. If you leave then you are not guilty of anything.
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Pretty soon that sign will carry legal weight for the owner, when they are legally liable for the safety of everyone inside
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If I conceal and they don't have metal detectors, they will never know. I love to break mental laws O0
So, you are suggesting to another member to ignore a legal sign that if caught, will have him forfeit his right to even own a gun?
I do not concur. He lives in Connecticut and they are serious about not having guns around .... anywhere, anytime.
Larry
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
Texas, Pennsylvania IT DOES NOT MATTER! He lives in Connecticut where THEY DO NOT WANT THINGS THAT GO BANG - PERIOD.
The snarky thing to suggest is move back into the U.S. Bottom line is you are screwed and getting enough votes to change things enough to get that repealed are either: it isn't going to happen or it REALLY isn't going to happen. Your fellow citizens are committed to: no things going bang!
Larry
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
See, that I’m fine with since I would probably never refuse to leave so therefore the potential consequence is very low. But if I’m charged with a felony straight up if I’m caught printing or whatever, then that makes me incredibly nervous about where I go when carrying. The problem is that it not only makes it a logistic nightmare to vet every store but it also adds complication to carry in general. Sometimes I’m not always the one driving or going back to the car isn’t really feasible. I’m probably going to consult a lawyer or someone knowledgeable locally since it seems every state that has this provision has all sorts of weird provisions about it. What a great and totally not confusing system we ha be to live with! I’m so glad I bothered to get my permit!
You're over complicating this, it isn't really that difficult. Once you actually start carrying you learn the ropes pretty quickly. You should be avoiding gun free zones and soft targets in general anyway. Concealed carry done correctly is about state of mind, awareness, and readiness. It's not a casual choice.
again there is a big "IF" attached to that and that if is: you live in the United States. N.England is no longer part of the U.S. They shredded the constitution years ago. Yes, if he is caught in CONNECTICUT with a gun on the wrong side of a no-gun sign, off to jail he is going to go.
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I recently attended a class at the club I belong to and a retired DA spoke about PA laws regarding such signs. They are legal to post but have no legal authority. If the owner of the establishment asks you to leave their place of business and you refuse you could be charged with trespassing.
See, that I’m fine with since I would probably never refuse to leave so therefore the potential consequence is very low. But if I’m charged with a felony straight up if I’m caught printing or whatever, then that makes me incredibly nervous about where I go when carrying. The problem is that it not only makes it a logistic nightmare to vet every store but it also adds complication to carry in general. Sometimes I’m not always the one driving or going back to the car isn’t really feasible. I’m probably going to consult a lawyer or someone knowledgeable locally since it seems every state that has this provision has all sorts of weird provisions about it. What a great and totally not confusing system we ha be to live with! I’m so glad I bothered to get my permit!
You're over complicating this, it isn't really that difficult. Once you actually start carrying you learn the ropes pretty quickly. You should be avoiding gun free zones and soft targets in general anyway. Concealed carry done correctly is about state of mind, awareness, and readiness. It's not a casual choice.
I am well aware of gun free zones (ie schools and federal buildings) and while I don't agree with them at all, at least it's pretty cut and dry. As for a "casual choice", I feel as though I am advocating the opposite! I want to carry about as 100% as possible (minus the specific GFZ areas) and now the fact that I actually have to obey some dumb stores "no gun" sign (which I can't even find if there's a mandated sign so I guess they can post any kind of sign and I'd have to follow it lol) is pretty disheartening. Like as of now, I only know of one place where I get gas that has said sign but I have to be ready to disarm myself at any given storefront or property or risk receiving a felony; aka F-ing my whole life up. As for avoiding these signs, I think that's way easier said than done; like I sometimes have to go places in life where I don't have a choice. I could be over thinking this but finding this out really scared me. It's funny that I am more scared of not violating some stupid, unclear state law than any actual deadly threat lol.
YEP!
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In Ohio a business may post a no guns allowed sign and you are REQUIRED to heed the sign. It is a misdemeanor citation in most places if you are caught in violation. Government properties such as court houses and police stations are another matter.
OH used to be a felony charge for violation of the NG signs....did something change?
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My rules of survival trump every other rule in the land. A lawyer can mitigate for me if need be; on the other hand, dead can't be corrected.
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In Ohio a business may post a no guns allowed sign and you are REQUIRED to heed the sign. It is a misdemeanor citation in most places if you are caught in violation. Government properties such as court houses and police stations are another matter.
OH used to be a felony charge for violation of the NG signs....did something change?
Yeah alot changed when they started issuing concealed carry licenses. Penalties can vary depending on the situation such as where you are, whether you are sober or not, and so on. Originally we were not permitted to carry in bars but that changed as long as the armed person is not consuming adult beverages and so long as the establishment hasn't posted against it. Laws regarding carry and transportation in a motor vehicle changed for those holding a handgun permit but if you are not licensed you must heed the previous laws regarding transportation and so on. You can easily look up the ORC. and read all about it or better yet consult an attorney for clarification.
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Public accommodations that prohibit lawful carry are violating your civil rights. If Woolworth can't restrict who sits at their lunch counters on the basis of race, then they shouldn't be able to prohibit carry in their public establishments. The store manager can choose to associate with whom he wants at his home, and can ban his guests from carrying on his property, but under existing constitutional principles he can't discriminate at work against patrons due to race or lawful armament.
I agree, and also with CzechLands' (Reply #7), but not to the extent of invoking Romans 14.13 in terms of personal relations/interactions/public image of all Patriots. https://biblehub.com/romans/14-13.htm
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=108824.msg844775#msg844775
Laches: use it or lose it. If no one stands for our Constitutionally-protected God-given rights, these rights will be gradually forfeited. Some situations call for taking a public stand, others call for grateful reliance on Psalm 91.11.
https://biblehub.com/psalms/91-11.htm https://biblehub.com/romans/8-14.htm