The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bmoturtleco on October 15, 2019, 01:52:25 PM
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I am about to be a new gun owner. My first purchase will be CZ SP01. I already have a gun cleaning kit, a Tekmat, range bag, ear and eye protection, and 1000 rounds of federal/American eagle 115 grain FMJ. I am taking classes and am trying to do things the right way. I have heard alot of veraring oppionions on how to clean and maintain a firearm.
Some have said only use oil. Some say use oil and grease. Some say never use grease. Some say use CLP. Some say never use CLP. Some say to use Mobil 1 oil. Some say to use mineral oil.
How are new Gun owners supposed to know what is needed?
My plan is to use Motorkote gun oil to start with and then try others from there. Has anyone ever used Motorkote gun oil before?
Any ideas, thoughts, comments, concerns, or suggestions will be considered.
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I've used grease & I've used oil & had no problems with either on the slide. Main thing is use a little lube. The guys in the know will fill us in.
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A lot of different oils/lubes work. A lot of different cleaning solutions/methods work.
That's why you get a lot of different suggestions. A lot of stuff will work.
I grew up using Hoppe's #9 for cleaning and 3n1 oil for lubrication. We have some family shotguns/.22 rifles that have had those used on them for 70 or 80 years and still function like new.
I now use Mobil 1 for lubrication (every now and then, when at home in the mountains, I'll use 3n1 oil because that's what's in the cabinet) for lube. Why? It works. And I use it in my vehicles. After every oil change on a vehicle I set the "empty" plastic jugs in a box at an angle to let the remains collect in a bottom corner. After a few days I'll tip the jug up and drain that little bit of left overs into a 1 qt. plastic bottle. I then pour some of that into the little GI plastic oiler bottles that were part of the M14 rifle cleaning kits. I supply oil to my sons and nephew and use it for my own guns and haven't bought "gun" oil in 10 or 12 years, or a little more. I've already paid for it, so why not use the little bit left in the jug for free gun oil?
Think about the conditions in a running engine (heat and load) and ask why it would not work in a gun? No reason it won't work.
I've never used grease on anything but the M1A and M1 Garand rifles. Some people do use grease on their handguns. Oh, I forgot, I used grease on the SIG 556R receiver rails/bolt, too. It stays so clean inside, due to the gas piston set up/operation, that the grease in the receiver stays clean for several range trips. Much cleaner than a pistol or AR15, which I field strip and clean after every range session.
Sometimes I clean my carry pistols even though I haven't shot them. Carrying a pistol gets it dirty. Dust, dog hair, lint, rain sometimes, etc., etc., etc. I look mine over when I take it out of the holster and sometimes it just needs cleaned and re-lubed to make me feel good about it.
I lube it up and then wipe off any excess with an oily rag/cloth that I use to wipe a light coat of oil on exterior metal surfaces to help prevent rust. I over oil. The wipe off the excess at that time. More will seep out later and that gets on the holster or my hand when I pick it up to put it back in the holster the next day.
Some people don't mind rusty guns. They'll get on the internet and complain that leaving guns in gun cases causes rust. I've had guns in gun cases for up to 8 years straight. Dug them out of the attic corner, unzipped the cases and inspected them to find no signs of rust before running another oily patch through the barrel, wiping them off with another oily rag and putting them back in the cases for a few more years. I've stored guns in safes in non-climate controlled buildings for years. No rust on them either. It has been about 4 or 5 years since I oiled about half of them in that one gun safe and I looked at them a couple days ago. No signs of rust on those either.
At this point I'm not able to believe guns magically rust in cases, safes, due to humidity/storage temperature swings.
Keep it clean. Keep it lubed. Find reliable, accurate ammunition for it. Practice with it. It will outlast you if you're a normal/regular user. If you're a competition shooter then you may wear out barrels, springs, slide stops, etc. and have to replace those. But us regular folks won't wear a CZ out. Just keep it clean, lubed and ready.
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I vote for a good coating of "whatever" on everything but you've only posted this in the general and gunsmithing section so far.Try the P-series and Rami section for more opinions.
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It’s a a personal choice. Since you’re in TX, shouldn’t really have an issue with any choice. Some of us in colder states however do need to watch the grease usage in the winter time. Grease doesn’t like -20 [emoji6]
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heh.. that is the never-ending problem for all new gun owner.
Definitely I agree with opinion "IT IS YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE".
There is no magic there. Most of the products are good, few are bad.
Start with research and count on other gun owners opinion... but only to avoid "bad" stuff.
Then try what you think will work for you. Probably you end up with 5 - 10 different products, but eventually you will find what is the EASIEST to use.
One says grease, other says - hell no grease... There are CLP lovers and CLP haters... but for you - try and decide.
Keep in mind your decision should depend how you use your firearm. Does it need a lot of lube, or maybe it likes to run dry? Know your gun.
If you shoot once per month, use more protective product (so no CLP), if you shoot everyday, maybe CLP is the fastest solution for you...
Anyway... know this - CLP products have 3 components working on your gun 24/7, so "cleaning component" still sits in your gun... don't keep it that way for a long time 8)
Maybe I'm old school guy, but after long time research and testing dozen of products my perfect couple are : CLEANER and LUBE. First you clean then you wipe it off and put lube on bare metal. This combination has never ruin any machine in my life.
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My plan is to use Motorkote gun oil to start with and then try others from there. Has anyone ever used Motorkote gun oil before?
Any ideas, thoughts, comments, concerns, or suggestions will be considered.
I havn’t used this product (and I have tried many), but use that as a starting point. You can report back to us as to how it performs! Since this appears to be a lubricant, you will want to get a cleaner for your bore. Start with what is easily available and go from there based on how you feel it is performing.
Your attention to storage needs to be based on your circumstances. If you are shooting and cleaning once a week, there would be little to no concern for rusting. If you live in a high humidity environment and you are shooting and cleaning only every few months, I would want a surface protectant product. Finish wear doesn't bother me, but rust is not acceptable.
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Personally, I’m not a fan of gun grease because in my experience it tends to attract crud. I’m not sure mineral oil would hold up very well against high heat and friction but I’ve never used it. I‘ve had good luck with M-pro7 gun oil and I use a separate cleaner, not CLP. I’m sure CLP is fine though. In a range setting or just in a pinch I’ll use a pressurized gun cleaning spray, blow it out with a can of compressed air, followed by a little oil. Keeps the motor runnin clean. Just trial and error to find what suits you best.
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Much good advice given here. Your question is akin to asking what is the best brand of oil on an automobile forum though...
I agree that a CLP product is not good to leave on the gun too long...well at least Gunzilla isn't. I have done so in the past and it stained some steel parts it was used on.
I would also caution using an spray gun cleaner. Read the cautions on the can. They can stain, melt, remove, etc. plastics, wood finishes and painted areas. Sadly I know this from experience too. They can be really great for speeding up the cleaning process but care must be taken.
Personally I clean my bore first, one wet patch, then the bronze bore brush (dipped in Hoppes or Shooters Choice, 10 to 15 passes...cleaning from chamber to muzzle), and let it sit (soak) while I clean the rest of the firearm. I use an old tooth brush with Hoppes #9 to scrub things up a bit then a spray cleaner, then canned air to blow away the remaining solvents. Next I lube frame and slide. I use a grease (sparingly) on "sliding" parts (frame rails, etc.) and oil on parts that rotate or pivot. I usually use EWL (Extreme Weapons Lube) products but not always, there are many good ones out there. I then hit it again with the canned air to remove excess oil.
At this stage I return to the barrel and finish with the bore. Once clean to my satisfaction I lube any appropriate areas on the exterior of the barrel (I never oil the bore unless I plan on long term storage), reassemble, function test, light coat of oil on any exposed, rustable metal, then put it away.
I'm sure you will come up with your own process. Personally I enjoy cleaning my firearms (as long as I haven't taken too many out to shoot on a given day)...well at least for a couple of hours at any given time, more than that and it gets a bit tiring.
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Much good advice given here. Your question is akin to asking what is the best brand of oil on an automobile forum though...
I agree that a CLP product is not good to leave on the gun too long...well at least Gunzilla isn't. I have done so in the past and it stained some steel parts it was used on.
I would also caution using an spray gun cleaner. Read the cautions on the can. They can stain, melt, remove, etc. plastics, wood finishes and painted areas. Sadly I know this from experience too. They can be really great for speeding up the cleaning process but care must be taken.
Personally I clean my bore first, one wet patch, then the bronze bore brush (dipped in Hoppes or Shooters Choice, 10 to 15 passes...cleaning from chamber to muzzle), and let it sit (soak) while I clean the rest of the firearm. I use an old tooth brush with Hoppes #9 to scrub things up a bit then a spray cleaner, then canned air to blow away the remaining solvents. Next I lube frame and slide. I use a grease (sparingly) on "sliding" parts (frame rails, etc.) and oil on parts that rotate or pivot. I usually use EWL (Extreme Weapons Lube) products but not always, there are many good ones out there. I then hit it again with the canned air to remove excess oil.
At this stage I return to the barrel and finish with the bore. Once clean to my satisfaction I lube any appropriate areas on the exterior of the barrel (I never oil the bore unless I plan on long term storage), reassemble, function test, light coat of oil on any exposed, rustable metal, then put it away.
I'm sure you will come up with your own process. Personally I enjoy cleaning my firearms (as long as I haven't taken too many out to shoot on a given day)...well at least for a couple of hours at any given time, more than that and it gets a bit tiring.
Thank you for mentioning that about the spray cleaners. Anytime I use the spray cleaner I always remove the grips and I do not let the cleaner stay on too long before blowing it off. I’ve only used Break Free brand Powder Blaster for no other reason than it was a decent price at Walmart. It left no residue and didn’t stain any of my hard chrome or blue steel guns. It definitely stripped all the oil off so be sure to re-apply a coat of oil to prevent surface rust.
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Grab a can of brake cleaner or carb. cleaner and walk over to the gun cleaning stuff and compare the ingredients on the labels to each other and see how much is the same and how little is different.
I occasionally use either brake cleaner or carb. cleaner. Once it dries I immediately use something like rem-oil to get some oil back on the bare metal surfaces. I don't use rem-oil for a lube but I'll hit the bare metal with it and then wipe off and lube with Mobil 1 and then wipe off the excess of that.
Do remember to wear safety glasses or monogoggles though. That stuff will burn your eyes like fire. BTDT. I got a good shot of it splashing out of an old wheel brake cylinder I was rebuilding. I still don't know how I made it from the old garage to the shower in the house. Took awhile standing there in that cold well water (didn't even notice it was cold for bit) till my eyes felt better.
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Grab a can of brake cleaner or carb. cleaner and walk over to the gun cleaning stuff and compare the ingredients on the labels to each other and see how much is the same and how little is different.
I occasionally use either brake cleaner or carb. cleaner. Once it dries I immediately use something like rem-oil to get some oil back on the bare metal surfaces. I don't use rem-oil for a lube but I'll hit the bare metal with it and then wipe off and lube with Mobil 1 and then wipe off the excess of that.
Do remember to wear safety glasses or monogoggles though. That stuff will burn your eyes like fire. BTDT. I got a good shot of it splashing out of an old wheel brake cylinder I was rebuilding. I still don't know how I made it from the old garage to the shower in the house. Took awhile standing there in that cold well water (didn't even notice it was cold for bit) till my eyes felt better.
So you’ve never had any issues ruining any bluing or other finishes? I’ve considered using it but I’ve always been a little concerned about finishes. I definitely wouldn’t use it on polymer or any type of grips but as long as it doesn’t ruin the metal finish I may try it.
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I've sprayed it on blued pistols, parkerized M1A's/M1 Garands, anodized AR15s, painted AR15s (home painted with krylon - it will make the krylon sort of dull/cloudy looking - and let it dry before wiping as I know from having done it that you can soak the krylon with carb cleaner and then brush with a toothbrush the paint will come off. I've cleaned up an A2 fixed stock like that). I've sprayed in on a Glock frame and on the P07 DUTY frame both (though that could have been brake cleaner and not carb. cleaner.) Brake cleaner is supposed to do the job but not be as "harsh" as carb cleaner.
I've not had it mess up the plastic/polymer on AR15 fixed or carbine stocks or the forends.
I don't spray it on/around the scopes/optics.
I've had it soften up a spot on my old Ruger Mk1 plastic grips.
If I was using it on my CZ aluminum or steel framed pistols I'd remove the grips first.
I soaked the snot out of my old Pre B CZ85 when I got it to remove all the desert brown dust/nasty old lube/powder residue from inside the frame/sear cage. I took the plastic grip panels off first and didn't reuse them anyway. It didn't hurt what was left of the Parkerizing on the CZ85.
Used it to clean out/up that almost 80 year old Auto 5 I bought a few years ago. Took the wood off (couldn't have hurt it as it was in really rough shape) and sprayed what look like several pounds of crud out of the receiver/magazine tube, trigger housing, action spring area, etc. Didn't hurt the bluing on it either.
Like I said, once it dries, and it dries quick, I use some type of spray oil (usually have some rem-oil around) to get some rust preventive film back on the bare metal surfaces.
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Remember always, that some things which clean firearms very well, also seep through newspaper, towels, even old canvas tarps. So keep this in mind before sitting down for a nice long gun-cleaning session at the wife's heirloom dining table. ::) (Yes I know he said he had a cleaning mat)
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Now that I think about it, I wonder if CRC brand Electronics Cleaner would do good. I know it’s safe to use on plastics, it powers through grease and doesn’t leave a residue. That stuff works great on mass airflow sensors etc. :o
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Now that I think about it, I wonder if CRC brand Electronics Cleaner would do good. I know it’s safe to use on plastics, it powers through grease and doesn’t leave a residue. That stuff works great on mass airflow sensors etc. :o
Yes it works perfectly. I have used CRC Electronics cleaner for years now on all my guns including the plastic frame of my P-07 with no ill effects. I can get it at Walmart for under $5 a can.
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Now that I think about it, I wonder if CRC brand Electronics Cleaner would do good. I know it’s safe to use on plastics, it powers through grease and doesn’t leave a residue. That stuff works great on mass airflow sensors etc. :o
Yes it works perfectly. I have used CRC Electronics cleaner for years now on all my guns including the plastic frame of my P-07 with no ill effects. I can get it at Walmart for under $5 a can.
SWEET! That’s going on my grocery list. Thanks.
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Getting back to the Lubrication Question.....................
I use a combination of Synthetic 10w-30 Motor Oil and Synthetic Automotive Bearing Grease. Some parts get Grease. Other parts get Oil.
Never a problem, even during extensive IPSC Matches lasting 500 rounds or so.
Also, never a problem with the Winter Cold Temps here, but I'm rarely outside in it for long.
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I use synthetic motor oil on my pistols, and a combination of oil and grease on my shotguns. The actions get oil, and the hinge pins and forearm metal get grease.
I use CLP products for cleaning.
Whatever you decide, don't overdo it. Thoroughly, but lightly.
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I've been using Breakfree CLP for over 35 years. It is great for long term storage protection (the "P" in CLP). It is an excellent lubricant. I don't use it as my primary cleaner, but it is still good at that task.
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...my $.02
Clean your new shooter of the protective packaging oil thoroughly. I like Battleborn solvent, no odor and non toxic. Alcohol is also something I use for inside the frame and magazines. Those are areas I try to NOT oil, they work just fine DRY. For slide rails and other parts that move and touch a microscopic film of the gun oil of your choice is all you need. A drop or two on a cotton patch or cloth wiped on theses areas is just fine. More ISN'T better, it only serves to create a gooky paste that can impede the action and throw things off. Once a pistol is broken in (500 or so rounds) I'll use grease on the slide rails but again just a little. I use a small 000 paintbrush and coat each rail with a dab about 1/3 the size of a corn kernel ad spread it evenly.
Primarily focus on developing safe handling of your new shooting iron and having fun. Good luck with her :-)
If you like YouTube check out Gunblue490's video tutorials on cleaning and oils. You may find them helpful.
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The best advice is to always use lube! It may not matter exactly which one. The idea of using motor oil seems like a very economical suggestion.
In extreme cold weather, I use Mobil 28 aviation grease, which is very resistant to freezing (my contribution to the grease vs. oil discussion).
I'll add a piece of advice I've seen elsewhere, and believe: do NOT use WD-40 as a gun lube. It might work as a cleaner, followed by application of a different product for lubing, but WD-40 is too light to use as a lube as it mostly evaporates away fairly quickly.
For cleaning and lubing and then preserving a gun from rust and corrosion, Hornady One Shot Cleaner and Lube gets high marks for protecting metal from rust. See https://www.chuckhawks.com/hornady_one_shot2.html Some guy did a test of various lubes and the Hornady turned out the best as a protectant. Not to be confused with Hornady One Shot case lube, which is a used in reloading.
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I use Strike Hold as a CLP cleaner then I use straight 30W non detergent motor oil on the lube points.
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Read the manual and go with what it says.
Be careful of what you use to clean, some cleaners can damage plastic or change the finish color.
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You've open up the worm can. You can ask 100 times, and get the same thing. Many opinions, all based on experience.
Having a regimen is more important (in most cases), than what you use. Most all products will work well, especially if you clean and reapply
on a regular basis. Find what satisfies you, and use it. I clean my firearms after every outing. Doing that, they are always clean, protected, and ready to go. It is a regimen that I enjoy just as much as shooting.
Develop a regimen, use quality products, don't stray.
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I like a light coat of white lithium grease on the rails.
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Generally I use oil - but if I'm going to run guns hot, a light grease stays on far longer eg. Weaponshield.
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I use grease on the frame rails and oil for everything else. My problem when I first got into guns was over cleaning. Coming right out of the US Army Infantry where weapons had to be spotless and we did whatever it took to make them that way I would completely clean my guns even if I fired a couple rounds through it. When I forst got into handguns I had Glocks. I would actually take the trigger assemblies out to make sure I got everthing spotless.
i think the key is do not over think it. here is a good resource:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hmewqhe-hc
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i think the key is do not over think it. here is a good resource:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hmewqhe-hc
Great video, Claymore504. I love statement: "do not overclean it". I would also add "do not overlube it".
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Some guns are tolerant to overlubrication :) Check this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLUH2vOhb6k
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Some guns are tolerant to overlubrication :)
:o
Most of good guns (over $600) can do this. They can survive and perfectly shoot overlubricated, wet, mudded or completely dry (no lube at all).
The question is how long ... 8)
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I grew up with Hoppes #9 too. But when I joined the Army they gave me break free. It's a clp. I've never left the break free on the weapon. I actually bought some Hoppes at the PX. So I used the break free on heavy carbon or dirt. Used Hoppes on the rest. Then oiled with Hoppes. The break free seemed to work faster on the carbon and lead. The Hoppes would work too just need to let it set for a while. I've also used 3 in 1. Forgot about it till reading this post.
Is the Mobil 1 you're using synthetic or petroleum? Petroleum can turn gummy over time. Like some clps. I know it takes awhile but couldn't say, never left a weapon set that long. I can understand using synthetic. Lots of people do that now. But motor oil viscosity breaks down over time. The reason for oil changes. So you loose lubrication. But on a gun it'd probably take some time before viscosity became an issue. Maybe 3000 rounds. LOL!!
Anyway, buy or get samples of gun products. If you go to there website let it gen know you'd like to try their product they may send you a sample or at the very least a coupon. If you get something that just sucks, don't hesitate to contact the company for a refund. Many have warranties or guarantees. I
Try everything till you're happy. Till the weapon works or feels right to you. Some people don't like certain smells. Others don't like how some cleaners/oils feel on their skin. Heck you may even be allergic to some or they irritate your skin.
Motor oil and diesel fuel turn my hands blood red. They itch like crazy. It's from working on diesels while in the Army.
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I bought RIG grease recently. I like it more than Hoppes white grease.
Very good for exterior protection and for rails lubrication.
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I was looking around, got curious if break free was solvent based, it is. Found out it's possibly a mix of Mobil 1, canola, and naphthalene. They have this stuff called LP. Lube and protect. Also discovered that some people are using bearing grease on their weapons. Grease on things that slide, oil on things that rotate. So they say. But not bad idea. Need to see if Hoppes is solvent based. The cleaner I'm not really that concerned, or with the clp, I wipe it off before oiling my weapons. I only use it to clean, not lubricate. Same with bf clp. But the L.P. Stuff sounds interesting. Will have to try it. Marvels Mystery Oil may be a good choice for a lube. Almost forgot about it. My dad used it in the motor oil, trans, and gastank. Probably what was on the rag he wrapped his revolver in. I haven't found a grease yet. Haven't thought about it. But now I'm going to look into it.
Speaking of grease, wouldn't white lithium be good? Just on the slide or carrier group. Never heard anything good or bad about it. White lithium supposed to be high heat and friction lube. Not sure how it acts when heated if it'll run through everything and be a pain to clean out.
Bearing grease is also high heat and friction. I know it runs a little, if anyone ever changed a wheel bearing will know. Then there's differential oil or grease. It's very thick. I've heard it called both. When I was an envelope machine adjusted we used gear oil and gear grease. Not sure of the brand. We had a 30gal barrel of the stuff and the name was worn off. Some adjusters used it as bearing grease. The best grease we used as bearing grease as well. That's what it looked like. Brown bearing grease. We all kept a container of to mark stuff, grease stuff, especially the stuff where the gum could run. Just to make it easier to clean. But you had to keep it away from the belts. It take 3-5 shifts to clean the belts to prevent tracking. Or the chains. Over the quartz heaters. Before I got there they stayed in while the machine ran. I asked why, then why can't we put in a switch to turn them off. It'd stop the tires from the solvent we used to clean the chains. Can't remember it's name either, but it burned almost like alcohol. You didn't know it was burning til it got hot or the paper caught fire. I learned to put some uncut paper around so if the fire started I'd see it before I got burned.
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Confused yet ? You will get a thousand different answers, everybody has their favorite way of cleaning /lubing their gun. So, here's my 2 cents. I use CLP, and have been happy for the last 40 years, no failures of major problems as of yet..... Just choose a good product, and there are a million of them out there, and draw your own conclusions....and yes, I have tried them all, but always come back to CLP. Good Luck with your new gun !
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Balistol to clean and Mobile 1 to lube.