The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: The Principal on September 20, 2020, 03:06:55 PM
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I am not a new shooter, but only have been shooting pistols consistently now at the range for about 3 months. I know I have a lot to learn. Being new, I generally get about 4-5 inch groups max at 7 yards. I recently acquired a Sig p365 and I have been consistently low. I am familiar with the typical reasons for this, but I am not seeing this issue when firing my other guns. I am also aware that a micro compact could exaggerate the shooting errors I am already making. That all being said, on my p365, there is a noticeable gap on the front side of the slide, where the barrel comes through the slide in front. It is on the top edge. It looks to me that the barrel would point low, relative to the sight picture, causing low shots.
I am also familiar with the “it’s not the gun, it’s you” scenario. I am not blaming the gun for my poor shooting. I am just going through the problem solving process in order to improve. Any input is appreciated. Pic below.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200920/8e4f4132434b1ff4f5fb6d4e68dcbd66.jpg)
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Nothing wrong.
Shorter barrel needs bigger gap.
Lock the slide back and look how the barrel is not longer parallel to the slide.
That's why the gap is need for.
This has nothing to accuracy... Of course short barrel doesn't shoot as accurate as long one...but the gap is not an excuse here :D
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Nothing wrong.
Shorter barrel needs bigger gap.
Lock the slide back and look how the barrel is not longer parallel to the slide.
That's why the gap is need for.
This has nothing to accuracy... Of course short barrel doesn't shoot as accurate as long one...but the gap is not an excuse here :D
I understand about the gap. The slide opening’s diameter or need for the gap isn’t in question. The spacing of the gap is what I am asking about. All of the gap is on the top which cants the front sight line up relative to the barrel. This could theoretically could lower the shot, compared to an evenly distributed gap around the barrel. I am guessing they all are like this. ...I figured it was most likely my shooting. Thanks for your feedback
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the front of the barrel needs to be able to tilt up for the slide to unlock
what hold are you using for the sights? SIG uses the "Combat Sight Picture" where the center of the front dot is the aim point.
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In a lock up like the psitol in question, the barrel is going to max out in one direction. I have two CZ examples handy with similar lock ups (no bushing), a CZ P-09 and a RAMI. In both pistols the barrel is at the bottem of the hole in the end of the slide when locked up.
I get where you are coming from but i believe that this is standard.
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In a lock up like the psitol in question, the barrel is going to max out in one direction. I have two CZ examples handy with similar lock ups (no bushing), a CZ P-09 and a RAMI. In both pistols the barrel is at the bottem of the hole in the end of the slide when locked up.
I get where you are coming from but i believe that this is standard.
Agreed. I just looked at my other firearms. ...Thanks for the feedback everyone.
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One other consideration, if you're using the standard frame you may be tilting the pistol slightly as you finish the trigger stroke. A friend watched me shooting and noticed the muzzle dropping ever so slightly just before the pistol fired. Switched to an XL frame and found myself hitting point of aim much more consistently.
I find myself doing the same thing when shooting a 1911 with a flat Main Spring housing. Arched MSH or Bobtail I shoot to point of aim.
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One other consideration, if you're using the standard frame you may be tilting the pistol slightly as you finish the trigger stroke. A friend watched me shooting and noticed the muzzle dropping ever so slightly just before the pistol fired. Switched to an XL frame and found myself hitting point of aim much more consistently.
I find myself doing the same thing when shooting a 1911 with a flat Main Spring housing. Arched MSH or Bobtail I shoot to point of aim.
Thanks. I think that is exactly what I am doing with the p365. I probably do it with my other pistols, but it is exasperated in a much smaller firearm.
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With that said, I really like my 365. Especially now that I modified it and was able to install the thumb safety. I feel much better with it now.
I’m with you on this whole statement. I bought mine with thumb safety though, as I have with 99% of my guns.
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I got one of the non-thumb safety types. I wasn't aware at the time that I bought it that they were going to be releasing one of the thumb safety models, otherwise I would have waited.
At the end of the day, they're all factory parts, just took me a little while to acquire them all trickling down to the aftermarket level, which sig has been very reluctant to do.
Yes, they are pro proprietary. ;)
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At 10 yards my P365 NRA edition was shooting about 4" low with my carry load Speer 124 Grain gold dot +p ammo. I replaced my factory Sig sights with Speed Sights and now my POI is the same as my POA at 8 to 10 yards. I think the reason Sigs combat sight don't work well for me is I've been using a 6:00 hold all my life and I'm just to old to change to the combat sight picture.
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At 10 yards my P365 NRA edition was shooting about 4" low with my carry load Speer 124 Grain gold dot +p ammo. I replaced my factory Sig sights with Speed Sights and now my POI is the same as my POA at 8 to 10 yards. I think the reason Sigs combat sight don't work well for me is I've been using a 6:00 hold all my life and I'm just to old to change to the combat sight picture.
This is unrelated but thank you for your service.
And a thank you to anyone else on this forum for their service.
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sigs xray sights are #6 front and #8 rear. [combat. hatem] i was doing the same thing when i bought mine. i switched the front sight to a #8 and never looked back. i actually have a set of tritium #8s im willing to part with as i put a RDS on mine
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sigs xray sights are #6 front and #8 rear. [combat. hatem] i was doing the same thing when i bought mine. i switched the front sight to a #8 and never looked back. i actually have a set of tritium #8s im willing to part with as i put a RDS on mine
I’ll take the #8’s if the OP isn’t interested.
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Please do not turn this into a classified post.
Thank you
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Please do not turn this into a classified post.
Thank you
My bad. I thought about it after I posted that. I PM’d him.
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Even a small/short barreled gun should be able to shoot good groups at 7 yds.
Not pointing fingers at the OP, just saying the short barrel thing is said to have more of a cause in the distance between the sights and peoples eyes rather than the barrel length. One of the reasons I spent (too much) money on that 2.0 M&P 9MM 5" was my wife's itty bitty Shield 9MM shot such nice groups for me. The darn dinky little shield shoots better groups than the much longer barreled full sized 9MM M&P.
Ammo can make a difference. The gun may not be capable of small groups. The shooter may need more range time and even someone/something to help improve their skills.
Red dots are nice. Not sure how one of the new Holosuns or RMR small sights would fit/look on a small SIG but it could help make you more consistent as the only alignment you need to worry about is putting the dot in the same place on the target. And, the red dots are adjustable, too. If the ammo you like hits low, adjust the elevation screw.
Good luck
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4gTSWXtiOo
Here is a good review from Honest Outlaw. He is hitting the target at 75 yards, so the pistol is plenty accurate.
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^Thanks. Yes, hickock45 was hitting pretty far shots too with one. It’s a great little pistol. I just have to work on being a better shooter with it. I am hitting the target, but a bit low. I think it’s a combination of factors, but due to being a smaller gun, my typical problems are magnified.
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^Thanks. Yes, hickock45 was hitting pretty far shots too with one. It’s a great little pistol. I just have to work on being a better shooter with it. I am hitting the target, but a bit low. I think it’s a combination of factors, but due to being a smaller gun, my typical problems are magnified.
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Hickok45 could probably hit the target dead on with a bent barrel… ;D
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Hickok45 could probably hit the target dead on with a bent barrel… ;D
Yeah... but ONLY if he follows the Fraternity's technique. ;)
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Originally, I had the same low shot placement issue. Replaced the curved trigger with a Sig straight trigger and my accuracy improved greatly.
Shooting the curved trigger made my finger pull down to the bottom of the trigger when pulling and it would pull the barrel downward. The straight trigger feels like it keeps my finger on the same top part of the trigger and keeps the pull straight back so there is no pressure pulling the barrel downward.
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Even a small/short barreled gun should be able to shoot good groups at 7 yds.
Not pointing fingers at the OP, just saying the short barrel thing is said to have more of a cause in the distance between the sights and peoples eyes rather than the barrel length. One of the reasons I spent (too much) money on that 2.0 M&P 9MM 5" was my wife's itty bitty Shield 9MM shot such nice groups for me. The darn dinky little shield shoots better groups than the much longer barreled full sized 9MM M&P.
Ammo can make a difference. The gun may not be capable of small groups. The shooter may need more range time and even someone/something to help improve their skills.
Red dots are nice. Not sure how one of the new Holosuns or RMR small sights would fit/look on a small SIG but it could help make you more consistent as the only alignment you need to worry about is putting the dot in the same place on the target. And, the red dots are adjustable, too. If the ammo you like hits low, adjust the elevation screw.
Good luck
+1 ^^^^^
Some good suggestions in this thread. Most SIG's come with a combat sight set-up, so they'll shoot low with a 6 o'clock or pumpkin-on-post sight picture.
I created a P365-'RX' by adding an XL Grip with flat trigger and had my slide milled by Fabricated Arms for a Holosun 407K red dot. Awesome combination that will put rounds quickly and easily inside a 3" circle at 15+ yards for me. Just like my RAMI BD with RMR, but even more compact. Love these little pistols! ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/CEqNOBU.jpg?2) (https://imgur.com/CEqNOBU)
(http://i.imgur.com/jgmAfZm.jpg?2) (https://imgur.com/jgmAfZm)
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Originally, I had the same low shot placement issue. Replaced the curved trigger with a Sig straight trigger and my accuracy improved greatly.
Shooting the curved trigger made my finger pull down to the bottom of the trigger when pulling and it would pull the barrel downward. The straight trigger feels like it keeps my finger on the same top part of the trigger and keeps the pull straight back so there is no pressure pulling the barrel downward.
Great. I will try this.
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Vinny, I see you have the straight trigger on there, too. What made you change the trigger out?
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Vinny, I see you have the straight trigger on there, too. What made you change the trigger out?
Fair question....
After I sent my slide off to get milled, I actually purchased a complete P365XL lower that came with the flat trigger. I like the longer 12+1 grip. Fit's my Vedder Light-Draw holster with no alterations necessary. I can't honestly say I notice much difference flat vs. curved, but the whole combination feels balanced and just WORKS for me.
Then.... for a pocket-carry pistol....another short slide assembly, barrel and recoil spring from SIG for my P365 lower, CT Green Laser in Alabama pocket holster. I'm happy now! O0
And in terms of accuracy....both set-ups present the same, target focused with two eyes open; pressing out the 'dots' just appear. (After considerable practice).
(http://i.imgur.com/qvROUc7.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/qvROUc7)
(http://i.imgur.com/orPr7wE.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/orPr7wE)
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Yes, I understand. It is still a micro pistol and the lower back palm grip (where alot of pistol recoil is controled from) is nearly non-existant makes it harder to shoot accurately. But with practice, it can be minimized. My P365 is not a target, match level pistol but it is still very accurate for what it is designed to accomplish.
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With my aging eyes, I decided to install a Lima green laser on my P365 with the SAS slide for pocket carry. My appendix carry has the XL lower and the short slide. I do not totally rely on the laser, but I believe it would be a good point of reference in a stressful situation.
(https://i.imgur.com/K6ewhCm.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/7btPJER.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/U6yhJIA.jpg?1)
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I just put in a SIG straight trigger and a McCarbo spring kit. I haven’t shot it again since. I know my issues with accuracy have to do with my technique errors, but it was fun to do the upgrades and I have a greater understanding of the gun now. Now back to working on my shooting.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/2d9bd14eab88926d92fc5c18d3cf50a5.jpg)
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It is fun to understand how the gut's work, isn't it?
Please let us know if the trigger helps or not.
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I have the P365 w/thumb safety also. I installed the Sig flat trigger on mine too and didn’t care for it. It functioned properly but it lengthens the reach leaving less room for my finger and was just uncomfortable for me. I kinda have sausage fingers too though. ;D However, a friend of mine has the Sig flat trigger on his P320 and I liked it a lot.