The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: 357MAGNOLE on September 28, 2020, 07:04:03 PM
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Those of you that are fascinated with AK variants. What should I be looking for once I scrape up some cash?
I had one before, an Arsenal SLR-107R that I got in a trade. At the time, I had no interest in them. It had about 100 rounds through it and like an idiot I traded it off for something else. My understanding is that those are actually decent AK variants, and I am seeing them sell for about $500 more then what I got out of mine about 3 years ago.
General purpose would be range gun, probably would not ever bother with optics but might throw something on one day for 50-100 yard shooting.
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I am not an AK expert at all. Been shot at by them a few times. Decided to get one a cuople years back and really like it. Went with a PSAK47 and really like it. Had one minor issue with it and PSA took care of it no questions asked. Overall I think it is an excellent rifle with lifetime warranty.
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Yes, to keeping an eye on the PSA web site. I've bought a lot of AR15 parts/uppers from them. Never had to send one back yet.
I only have experience with one AK47 and one SIG556R (sort of a classy AK - take them apart and the bolts are scary similar, but don't interchange).
The AK47 shoots better groups with Tula ammo vs. Wolf or Red Army. It's amazing with Sliver Bear. All steel cased.
On the other hand, the 556R does better with Wolf vs. Tula or Red Army.
The single case of Red Army we bought had some rusty cases brand new out of the boxes and accuracy sucked for air. Both guns were reliable with all the brands we tried.
As for magazines, everything we've bought works so far. Steel no name magazines from the gun shows and the Tapco plastic mags, too.
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I don't want to make you feel bad, but you totally messed up selling the Arsenal SLR. Those really are superb AKs, and they've only gone up in price. I'm also no expert, but I've played with a few Yugos, Romanians, even a couple other milled receiver offerings and the Arsenals immediately feel much nicer in all regards.
I personally went with a CMMG MK47 Mutant because I like the modularity and overall style of an AR but the power and reliability of 7.62x39 with AK mags. It's also way overbuilt and knowing it can withstand more abuse than an actual AK makes me smile. Save for a couple soft strikes in the first couple hundred rounds, it's been a phenomenal shooter and I wouldn't trade it for any real AK. I got a great deal on a base model Gen 1 and have been slowly upgrading along the way. Eats everything I feed it, though I will say the polymer Magpul mags do tend to seat and feed better than the various steel mags I have, which I'm honestly okay with, and I've had nothing but positive experiences so far with Golden Tiger.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bxw3hhW.jpg)
That being said, your desire for an AK might also be driven by aesthetic too, in which case a Mutant won't satiate that. It is also a little hefty (I'm at around 12.2lbs fully loaded with everything pictured attached). But if you're just looking for a super solid platform to launch some surplus 7.62 downrange with some surprising accuracy, you would be hard pressed to find anything better.
They also make an MK47 pistol/SBR offering under the Banshee line. No direct experience with those but I've heard nothing but absolute praise for them.
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Why not a Bren2 in 7.62x39?
Steve
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Why not a Bren2 in 7.62x39?
Steve
I was already planning on it, in the 11" configuration. But the price, and cycling issues I have seen arent helping me with making that commitment. The plan was to run the Bren suppressed as well, and that seems to be a even bigger issue. If i get an AK variant, it will likely be a year out from now and after the past week of looking at videos I am leaning towards the new offerings from PSA.
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I would look hard at the zpaps
When in stock, they are a great rifle and value at the moment.
It’s a terrible time to get an AK, however....
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I would look hard at the zpaps
When in stock, they are a great rifle and value at the moment.
It’s a terrible time to get an AK, however....
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I guess kinda lucky for me I am not pressed for time. I am deployed and wont be home for another year. Hopefully everything calms by then.
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I would second dealing with CMMG and PSA they make great products and stand behind them. I found my AK years ago . A 1992 Chinese Norinco that has a great trigger and is amazingly accurate. Pretty much indestructible.
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All I can say is that the prices of even bottom-of-the-barrel AKs has gone up so much that I wont even consider them. I can add to what someone else said, that PSA is a good option. They also have a 7.62x39 AR that I really liked (sold it to buy something else, story of my life). You might be happier with a VZ58/VZ2008 but if an AK is what you're set on, good luck in your search.
Im hoping for the best, but somehow doubt that anything will have calmed down by the time you get back.
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AK design is known for its reliability and low-maintenance. You can neglect your AK and shoot "s-h-i-t-ty" rounds and it will work when AR won't.
But speaking about ergonomics it sucks comparing with AR. To be honest I never had fun shooting with AK.
I also didn't get AK/AR hybrids - I'd love to have AR-15 in 7.62x39 caliber (which is cheaper), but I heard it won't be so reliable (eats everything and no mags malfunction) as original AK.
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Check out Ak Operators Union on YoutTube. Rob does a really good job of testing rifles from all price ranges. As others have said though, as of right now everything in over priced.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AkOperatorsUnion/videos
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New review of the PSA AK-103 over @ Garand Thumb (but of course its out of stock right now):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q789nlbiVyA&ab_channel=GarandThumb
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Mosin Crate has a batch of surplus AK-47 going up tomorrow. His offerings always sell out immediately.
https://youtu.be/0ZTmi2_IDwU
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New review of the PSA AK-103 over @ Garand Thumb (but of course its out of stock right now):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q789nlbiVyA&ab_channel=GarandThumb
Really solid video great find
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Got both AK47 (SAM7, mill receiver) and AK74 from Arsenal. Got them before the price went up the roof. They are both very nice and accurate compare to typical AK. I also got a Norinco AK47 folding stock back in the day before the ban, rarely shot it these days. I also got a VZ58 as well. This one looked like an AK but not quite the same as the internals are totally different. Having an AK rest assured that there a bang every time you pull the trigger ;D.
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I can recommend PSA AKs very easily. My truck gun is a piston AR pistol, which had a bad heat treatment on the piston rod (bent inside the upper). Was out of my AR pistol for a few weeks... so tossed in the AK-P that I picked up for s***s and giggles. Gun doesn’t miss a beat, and is accurate enough for what I needed.
Only issue, and why I couldn’t wait to get the AR back in the truck, is that I’m L/E. Last thing I’d want would be to roll up on an active shooter while off-duty, pull out a short barrel AK, and get lit up by responding units. When I ran that gun, I actually pulled out the reflective yellow Velcro patches off my winter jacket to toss on my body armor (already had Police patches... but wanted more visibility). It doesn’t look like a gun someone in L/E would use.
My other AK is a 2013 WASR (US barrel). I love that gun, being it is a cheap AK that runs... plus my first AK. Actually at the gunsmith, getting the barrel nut removed (un-NJing it). Once that is back, likely going to do Magpul furniture to it for a little better usefulness.
Only thing I’d say to stay away from is anything Century built. They can import ok guns (WASRs, for example), but don’t get suckered on a gun they built themselves. Depending on how the election goes, either there will be a Metric s*** ton of guns going up for sale this holiday season, or people will be scrounging for anything that fires a projectile. Just watch what ends up on your plate.
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Right about this time 12 years ago I bought a Saiga in sporter configuration as that was all I could find when Obama was about to be elected. Ive since converted it, and it’s awesome. No idea how much AKs are going for these days or if this would save you cash or not, just thought Id throw it out there.
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I don't have an AK now. But I'd like to get one in the future as a fun gun. Just need to wait until the budget gets back up to where it should be.
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I don't want to make you feel bad, but you totally messed up selling the Arsenal SLR. Those really are superb AKs, and they've only gone up in price. I'm also no expert, but I've played with a few Yugos, Romanians, even a couple other milled receiver offerings and the Arsenals immediately feel much nicer in all regards.
I personally went with a CMMG MK47 Mutant because I like the modularity and overall style of an AR but the power and reliability of 7.62x39 with AK mags. It's also way overbuilt and knowing it can withstand more abuse than an actual AK makes me smile. Save for a couple soft strikes in the first couple hundred rounds, it's been a phenomenal shooter and I wouldn't trade it for any real AK. I got a great deal on a base model Gen 1 and have been slowly upgrading along the way. Eats everything I feed it, though I will say the polymer Magpul mags do tend to seat and feed better than the various steel mags I have, which I'm honestly okay with, and I've had nothing but positive experiences so far with Golden Tiger.
That being said, your desire for an AK might also be driven by aesthetic too, in which case a Mutant won't satiate that. It is also a little hefty (I'm at around 12.2lbs fully loaded with everything pictured attached). But if you're just looking for a super solid platform to launch some surplus 7.62 downrange with some surprising accuracy, you would be hard pressed to find anything better.
They also make an MK47 pistol/SBR offering under the Banshee line. No direct experience with those but I've heard nothing but absolute praise for them.
Any thoughts on your Mutant versus the Rock River offering (LAR-47)? I like my early WASR 10/63 but am in the market for another way to burn through 7.62x39 while using my existing stash of AK mags.
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I'd love to have AR-15 in 7.62x39 caliber (which is cheaper), but I heard it won't be so reliable (eats everything and no mags malfunction) as original AK.
I have an AR in 7.62x39, built it last winter, has probably 600 rds down the pipe. So far NOT ONE I repeat NOT ONE single issue the gun. Although 600 rds isn't a lot of rounds its still an indicator and thats with crap russian ammo. I let a guy from work borrow it for deer season this year, having never shot the rifle before, he put 5 shots under an inch. It has repeatedly produced 5 shot groups that hover in the 1 to 1.5 inch range.
Satern barrel and C-products mags
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I have never owned an AK but I remember what it sounds like to be shot at with one and when I hear one it brings back memories I'd like to forget.
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Got both AK47 (SAM7, mill receiver) and AK74 from Arsenal. Got them before the price went up the roof. They are both very nice and accurate compare to typical AK. I also got a Norinco AK47 folding stock back in the day before the ban, rarely shot it these days. I also got a VZ58 as well. This one looked like an AK but not quite the same as the internals are totally different. Having an AK rest assured that there a bang every time you pull the trigger ;D.
What type of SAM7 did you have?
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If you want to get any semblance of a deal right now on an AK, you want to research old Pre-ban and Ban Era imports. These are actually the highest quality AK’s although some have their quirks, if you do your research you can still find some deals on the lesser known varieties of Romanian, Bulgarian, Chinese (believe it or not these are higher quality than any American AK of today), & Hungarian rifles. Otherwise get on the mail lists for WBP Fox (Polish) rifle or one of the new ZPAP (Serbian) models with chrome lined barrel
Edit: DO NOT overlook the VZ-58 (Czech) similar to AK but lighter, short-stroke, milled reciever, more accurate, with BHO feature and a more ergonomic safety
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I have a Draco SBR and SAM7K with a brace and I would recommend either one, I’ve had other AK’s in the past, 47’s and 74’s both and even a couple of VZ58’s but this are the only two I’ve kept.
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The VZ58 is a great rifle...light and handy; excellent quality weapon, as you’d expect from the Czechs.
The main downside is magazines...you can find surplus mags, but not as ubiquitous as the AK....same with spare parts.
I just picked up a Zpap92; excellent fit and finish...definitely an excellent value at the moment. All the features I would hope for in terms of how they are manufactured.
The ATF’s website is down...but this will be getting a stamp and becoming an SBR.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201202/ef58a4b0bb2035fc9a7a129b8e2840e7.jpg)
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Best bang for the buck right now, is Zastava USA M70 ZPAP.
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Current production AK pistols, I’m partial to the WBP Lynx pistol because it has a FB Radom medium-heavy CLHF barrel and the most solid red dot mount available, on the rear sight block.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201203/02d0631a98c21bb2fc31b974e80710e9.jpg)
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I agree on the lynx>zpap92...I couldn’t find a lynx in stock anywhere
I know Atlantic just got a shipment of wpb rifles, and they sold out in a matter of minutes at $1100
It’s a dismal time in the AK world...the threat of import ban I think will fuel a run on any imported AK for the foreseeable future
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Not really a good time to buy anything but AKs seem to be worse than other platforms when it comes to current prices.
All mine were purchased in the $600-$800 range when $500 ARs were everywhere. Even before the panic, prices were jumping as imports dried up.
AKs have a lot of character and a lot of history but above a grand, your options open up. I have a VZ2008 and it’s a much more modern platform.
Where the AK shines is aftermarket, tons of stuff.
Also have a few ARs in 7.62x39, they take the prize for accuracy vs the AKs.
I like my WASR, Zastava is also good value even at today’s prices, and based on recent reviews Palmetto State Armory is improving enough I’d try one.
If it’s a Century build, do some research, they’ve made quite a few stinkers. RAS47 & C93 come to mind. Check out the AK Operator’s Union site, lots of good info with 5k round tests on the latest models.
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I have owned a number of them over the years, and have but one now. It is an Arsenal SLR 104UR SBR in the (in my opinion) very superior 5.45x39mm caliber. The renowned “poison bullet”. O0 I recommend Arsenal as a brand, they are Bulgarian, and top shelf kit. You would probably be best served sticking with the common and combat proven 7.62x39mm caliber for ease of access to factory ammunition. Best of luck.
GS
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OP: good luck with today's AKM prices.
On a sidenote -- are you a little familiar with what looks similar, but is a very Different type of 7.62x39 gun - the Czech VZ-58?
I only mentioned this for the many people who are totally unfamiliar, or haven't read about the engineering quality of Czech rifles, or assume that they are a derivative of AKMs (not at all).
Mine is a Czechpoint, which provides a technical contrast to my imported AKMs.
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Don't have much to offer on experience, but I've heard that milled AKs are better than stamped ones.
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I bought a Century Arms WASR-10 (Romanian import) a few years ago <$700. Now the same gun lists for $1100. All that said, it has never failed to go bang. I added optics to it (I know...heresy...but I have bad eyes) and it's one of my favorite plinkers in my collection.
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I bought a Century Arms WASR-10 (Romanian import) a few years ago <$700. Now the same gun lists for $1100. All that said, it has never failed to go bang. I added optics to it (I know...heresy...but I have bad eyes) and it's one of my favorite plinkers in my collection.
As long as Century didn’t molest it, your WASR is probably good to go, though Romanian AKs are on the low end of QC in the AK world (canted sights, rough cosmetics, etc.).
I’m not one of those “nyet, rifle is good” “AK purists.” Improvements to sights (optics) and furniture make these into much more accurate and better handling guns - IMO much superior to an AR as a shtf / survival weapon, especially in 7.62x39.
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Not sure where the OP is on his quest for an AK. While a derivative variant, I highly recommend the Galil Ace Gen II in 7.62x39. An incredibly solid and fun gun to shoot.
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Not sure where the OP is on his quest for an AK. While a derivative variant, I highly recommend the Galil Ace Gen II in 7.62x39. An incredibly solid and fun gun to shoot.
I ended up with a VZ58. Happily might I add.
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Not sure where the OP is on his quest for an AK. While a derivative variant, I highly recommend the Galil Ace Gen II in 7.62x39. An incredibly solid and fun gun to shoot.
I ended up with a VZ58. Happily might I add.
Though Vz58s are good, depending on who put it together, everybody needs at least one (quality) AK. They’re the most ubiquitous small arm in the world.