The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => Compact CZ 75s => Topic started by: briang2ad on January 20, 2021, 02:58:11 PM
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New non-omega. New: plenty of nasty grit and stacking. Back to CZ, and some of the stacking was relieved.
Got the CGW defensive kit. Broker her apart. My fear of the decocker sear cage is almost gone - really not crazy bad.
While I had it apart I was really surprised - the TB was the best Ive seen on a 75. No tool marks. So I took it easy and used tiny felt pads and the dremel to carefully polish - look superb. Did all the usual polishing and even gently stoned the disco which looks OK but some mold garbage up on top of the disco needed smoothing.
Put it all back together, and thought all would be smooth. Not really - all the grittiness became bumpiness. Not a smooth DA trigger. The weaker mainspring makes it more useable, but wow.
What am I missing? Will adding the CGW disco or polishing the disco more help?
Thanks.
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Pretty sure the absence of tool marks on the trigger bar is because they're made of MIM now.
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This one IS different. It looked pretty amazing. Normally CZ 75 TBs make an AK trunion look like polished silver. Just cannot understand where the grit is coming from.
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Starting with the hammer, I remove parts and work the trigger until I don't feel grittiness. If the grit is gone, the previously removed part is the culprit.
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Check out the hammer spring "guide". I've seen those with chatter marks on the corners that the spring coils rub against. I've got one or two pistols that I could hear the sort of clinking/popping sounds as the coils bounced/slipped from on groove/chatter mark to the next as you cocked the hammer - if I held the pistol up close to my ear. Took the hammer/guide out, smoothed the corners on a stone and got rid of that source of drag and roughness.
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As others have said check the hammer strut. I usually smooth the edges and polish. I also polish the ends of the hammer spring.
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I've got the same issue with my PCR. The DA is gritty even after both CGW and I polished the internals. I can't see an obvious reason for it either. All my other CZs I've polished are very smooth. I keep meaning to tear it down yet again and give it another go. Maybe I'll do that sooner rather than later and report back. Good Luck!
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Near the top of the part that spring actually slides/ride against you can better see the little shiny spots on that one corner. As the spring compresses the coils pop into the grooves, then up, out, over the hump and down into the next groove (shiny spot. You can feel them with your finger/fingernail. Polish those corners smooth and it'll help with some of the gritty feeling.
(https://i.imgur.com/VDifcB3l.jpg)
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I always do a thorough job on the hammer spring guide. I even pay special attention to the top where the spring ends and polish the spring ends also. I put in plenty of grease. All the time I've done this, I have NEVER found it to make a difference in the gritty feel. I have even had guns with plenty of chatter marks there and after smoothing it made no difference.
I may just get new CGW disco and see. But the grit makes NO sense.
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I've got the same issue with my PCR. The DA is gritty even after both CGW and I polished the internals. I can't see an obvious reason for it either. All my other CZs I've polished are very smooth. I keep meaning to tear it down yet again and give it another go. Maybe I'll do that sooner rather than later and report back. Good Luck!
Here is what CGW told me and it makes sense. The angle on the bottom of the sear cage is TOO STEEP which dos all kinds of bad things to the SA pull and increases grit. Because of polishing, mine is really "bumpy" now, but still there. This requires some steel shaping with a cutting stone. If I get some time, I'll likely do it at some point.
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Does a CGW sear cage solve the angle issue?
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I've got the same issue with my PCR. The DA is gritty even after both CGW and I polished the internals. I can't see an obvious reason for it either. All my other CZs I've polished are very smooth. I keep meaning to tear it down yet again and give it another go. Maybe I'll do that sooner rather than later and report back. Good Luck!
I'm surprised that CGW let it go with a gritty DA pull. I heard Scott left, is David still involved?
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I've got the same issue with my PCR. The DA is gritty even after both CGW and I polished the internals. I can't see an obvious reason for it either. All my other CZs I've polished are very smooth. I keep meaning to tear it down yet again and give it another go. Maybe I'll do that sooner rather than later and report back. Good Luck!
Here is what CGW told me and it makes sense. The angle on the bottom of the sear cage is TOO STEEP which dos all kinds of bad things to the SA pull and increases grit. Because of polishing, mine is really "bumpy" now, but still there. This requires some steel shaping with a cutting stone. If I get some time, I'll likely do it at some point.
Hmmm, interesting but my SA is terrific, it's the DA that's gritty.
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I've got the same issue with my PCR. The DA is gritty even after both CGW and I polished the internals. I can't see an obvious reason for it either. All my other CZs I've polished are very smooth. I keep meaning to tear it down yet again and give it another go. Maybe I'll do that sooner rather than later and report back. Good Luck!
I'm surprised that CGW let it go with a gritty DA pull. I heard Scott left, is David still involved?
Yep, David's still there. It is better than it was prior to its visit to CGW but even after i polished it a 2nd time it's still night and day compared to my other CZs.
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Does a CGW sear cage solve the angle issue?
This was not suggested by CGW, so I will assume that their sear cage is factory as listed and has no preset modification. I will say that they told me the TB is so good looking because it is precision MIM. It does look like a different animal than the standard I've seen over the years. I actually took a new TB and installed it in an old PreB because the PreB was so bad with stacking.
I do NOT think I will need to take much off the bottom angle, and I just need to find a SHARP/AGGRESSIVE stone that is wide enough to do both sides at once and decrease the angle. This is definitely CZ Smith 500, but if you mess up its a $60 for a new sear cage, and you MAY get one that works anyway.
I just hate all the little springs in the cage. What a mess. I even had trouble positioning the decocker spring last time.
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This video is the best that I have found on decocker sear cage assembly. https://youtu.be/4vamXokwoWg
The video is zoomed enough to clearly see the parts and springs and what he is doing, and the method he uses seems to work well. I referenced this in my first CGW kit install and it went very well on my first attempt. Perhaps it will help others too.
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Thank you. Good vid. Should be a sticky.
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This video is the best that I have found on decocker sear cage assembly. https://youtu.be/4vamXokwoWg
The video is zoomed enough to clearly see the parts and springs and what he is doing, and the method he uses seems to work well. I referenced this in my first CGW kit install and it went very well on my first attempt. Perhaps it will help others too.
That's my go to video as well.
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With no further work, my thinking is changing on this. When I had detail stripped and polished the action, the disco had some steel 'overmolded' on the top. I polished and smoothed this area pretty well, but some extra steel is still there. This runs UNDER the sear cage throughout the DA pull. It is much smoother now, but bumpy.
Therefore, when the disco/trigger set comes in from CGW, I intend only to polish the bottom of the sear again (moderately), and let it be and reassemble. I think the bumpiness WILL go away and the grit always was the overmolded part.
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Makes sense for sure. Let us know an update when you get the parts installed.
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When I had it part I did decided not to take a part the sear cage. I did end up shaping the angle on the underside of the sear cage a bit. I did some real good polishing but again did not want to take apart the sear cage. Put all items back together with the reduced reach kit and I’ll have to say that the bumpiness is pretty much gone. However, I do believe the stacking is much more than I think should be in a kit I spent so much money on. Therefore, I would have to think that the seer cage may be the culprit after all. The DA is “pretty good” and of course the SA very good. But overall disappointed a bit.
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So I stripped down my gritty in DA PCR today - the one that's been previously polished by both CGW and me. Once stripped down I installed the parts one by one to test the action and check for the dreaded grit. Trigger and trigger bar first in. Smooth as silk. Hammer and disco without the main spring next, just using manually applied pressure to check the action. Again, nice and smooth. Installed the main spring and things got interesting. Much of the grit was back. Now, the hammer strut was already polished smooth so that wasn't the issue. After fiddling around with the spring/strut combo I
found that if I played around with the main spring plug and got the spring/strut/plug aligned perfectly straight most of the grit would disappear. It seemed to me that perhaps the spring was rubbing against the edges of the admittedly rough plug so I proceeded to file and polish the plug. That done, I also checked the sear cage and noticed pretty pronounced rub marks where the dicso rubs up against the underside of the sear cage. I removed the hammer/dicso and checked the disco for rough surfaces and noticed it had some rough edges. I polished the disco just enough to get rid of them and also polished the underside of the sear cage again. I put the gun back together and tested it. I'd say at least 60% of the grit is gone. I'm fairly pleased. It's still not as nice as my other CZs but the DA is definitely better/less objectionable and the SA remains wonderful.
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Also try ploshing the ends of the main spring. Makes a difference for sure!
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Also try ploshing the ends of the main spring. Makes a difference for sure!
I actually thought about that about that but got busy. I'm gonna try it - can't hurt. 🤷🏻 Thanks for the reminder.
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Also try ploshing the ends of the main spring. Makes a difference for sure!
Spent a little free time today polishing the main spring and filing/polishing down the sharp edges of the ends of the springs. I also used a 1200 grit polishing pad on a dremel bit to really polish the interior and edges of the plug. Put some moly grease on the strut and plug interior, put it back together and yep, it was even a bit better. Pretty much comparable with my polished P01 steel frame. Working on the spring and plug was a worthwhile endeavor for sure.
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With most of my grit problems gone, I have the nagging problem of STACKING. With the input from CGW, I called CZ USA. They are semi-reluctantly sending a sear cage. I will polish it up and install and see what I get.
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CZ USA sent the cage. Polished up the new cage, took all the parts out, put them into the new cage. Broke the lifter spring on the way in. >:(
The video linked here is pretty amazing. I would differ in this. DO NOT put the dainty lifter spring till you are done and have the sear cage back in the gun. Back the sear pin out a tad - put the lifter spring in, then reinsert the sear pin.
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CZ USA sent the cage. Polished up the new cage, took all the parts out, put them into the new cage. Broke the lifter spring on the way in. >:(
The video linked here is pretty amazing. I would differ in this. DO NOT put the dainty lifter spring till you are done and have the sear cage back in the gun. Back the sear pin out a tad - put the lifter spring in, then reinsert the sear pin.
Those lifter springs are definitely a PITA. I've broken 1 and lost one during my CZ smithing adventures. Good to have a few spares on hand. I've always pretty much used the method in the video to reassemble the cage. Maybe I'll try your suggestion next time. Hope the new cage solves your issues.
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Got it all back together today with the new cedar cage installed. It is much better although there is some stacking halfway through the pool but it’s smooth and pretty nice because of the light Cajun Springs. Nowhere near as smooth as a SIG for example but it is a very nice trigger