The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: iplayforme on January 28, 2021, 12:14:18 PM
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I just got 2 boxes of BB 147gr Outdoorsman. I thought I'd shoot a box in my PCR to function test and carry the other box while out hunting. I tried the plunk test in the PCR and a Rami and no good. Gets stuck. In a Browning Highpower its fine.
I'm a little miffed at the situation because I see Buffalo Bore knows CZ and some others have a shorter chamber that doesn't work with some ammo. You have to go to a technical article to see that. I would have liked to see that on the order page along with the sales pitch, ballistic tables and the dead, skinned bear. Right now I have 40 rounds that cost $60 and it looks like I might have to sell it off.
Has anyone run into this. I asked BB if I could seat the bullet further but I know that can cause a pressure concern. I seriously doubt they'll bless this approach. I haven't heard back anyway.
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sorry to hear about your issues.
but what it comes down to is you are just small potatoes and probably not even that.
Same with CZs. Small potatoes. if it was the other way around then, yes, they would cater to CZ and you, but its not.
also, sometimes its the shape of the bullet that may or may not make a difference.
you are better off using the ammo in some other gun.
Also, thinking outside the box, ever consider having your chamber redone or maybe a new/different barrel?
good luck
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Sorry to hear of your issue.
There are problems with special ammo in the CZ chamber, because the chambers are currently only tested with standard FMJ at the Czech factory. And this situation is exacerbated with 147gr because the bullet is simply longer, and therefore protrudes more from the case. You can actually see this in the product photo. So you simply got the "double whammy".
Photo Here (https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/495/495950.jpg)
However, that doesn't mean you need to loose money on the deal. There are several ways to do a face-to-face swap for some 124gr or 135gr ammo of similar type.
Our standard advice is to take your barrel with you when you go shopping for ammo. That or ask here what works before buying on-line.
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I had a similar situation with a different brand of bullet same results.
I sent my barrel to CJ Maven along with 2 bullets I made, minus powder and a primer.
He re did my chamber for me so the bullets fit perfect and he did it for like 40 bucks or something.
I'm sure Cajun or one of the other shops can do this as well. CJ did it for me in 2 days. www.cjmaven.com
Another solution that is easy peasy and works very well.
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iplayforme,
Think you already have the right idea. First is not to shoot it in your two CZs and use that ammo in something else where it does fit. Glad you checked first. I also have a couple with really short throats and have yet to see factory 147gr ammo that will function it them. I have reloaded 147gr XTPs for these guns, but I am almost 0.01 shorter OAL than listed. Oddly in both no pressure signs at all the max loads I have run through them (started at .2 gr below starting load).
If you don't reload I might take Recoilguy's suggestion and have the chamber/throat altered. In fact I may send one of mine.
JW
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I see no reason to alter the gun. There is excellent 124 and 135gr ammo that will work really well. Some CZ barrels are too hard to ream, but if you succeed you may loose accuracy or some other feature that you really appreciate.
What you need to alter is your ammo buying procedure. The story I want to hear is what ammo you were shooting before the Buffalo Bore, and exactly why you no longer have any of that ammo.
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Think we are all shooting ammo, if we have any at all that is not our normal. Lucky for some who reload or stocked up before the current ammo shortage. Believe Iplayforme is looking at hunting ammo and may want the heavier bullet for greater penetration and wants to use his CZ and not a High-power. This is if I read his initial post correctly.
Recoilguy was suggesting a method of alteration that should ensure that the barrel would be safe and should be accurate with the proposed round, but you are correct in that it may adversely affect accuracy of other ammo. I see three options:
1. Use the ammo in another firearm (High-power)
2. Alter the ammunition to fit your preferred pistol.
3. Alter your preferred pistol to safely chamber the round you want to use.
Least expensive in time and money is just to use the ammo in another pistol. Altering ammo to fit a firearm is a very dangerous proposition. Two of the six firearms I have witnessed blow up were from people doing this. Personally do not think it is worth the risk. Last option though it does cost a bit has two advantages, cost is not that great and makes the gun more universal in ammo use. There is much to be said for a gun that safely goes bang no matter what you put in it. Glock made its reputation on it. Doubt that making a slight alteration would damage overall accuracy significantly, but it is a risk.
Interesting choice to make. Iplayforme, wish you the best on your decision and project.
JW
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Interesting choice to make. Iplayforme, wish you the best on your decision and project.
Exactly my thoughts and wishes too.
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I probably wont alter the chambers and will just stick to reputable factory loadings and work up some reloads.
The CZ's are new to me and purchased due to a renewed interest in pistol shooting and in anticipation of continued political uncertainty. I have always wanted a CZ or 2 since shooting my brother's. So I have 4 now. Waiting for permits for the other 2.
I bought the BB ammo to carry while in the woods in Maine hunting grouse. Was kind of an impulse buy when reading about a 9mm being at all suitable for bear protection. While I'm sure it's debatable I did get convinced the 15 rounds of 9mm that penetrate might be better than 6 of .44 or .357.
As far as Buffalo Bore goes they never got back to me. I've read some fairly negative stuff about the way they answer questions since this came up. I do think it's BS that they have a huge sales pitch, ballistic tables and a story, with pictures, about this load stopping a grizzly bear on the front page. No mention about chambering issues. Im going to try to digest the saami drawings and figure out if the load meets that spec for a 9mm. If it doesn't I might get persistent about getting a refund from them. They make no bones about telling you they don't do that. Won't be ordering from there again.
In any case I guess I need to get to the basement and load. Thank you again.
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I probably wont alter the chambers and will just stick to reputable factory loadings and work up some reloads.
The CZ's are new to me and purchased due to a renewed interest in pistol shooting and in anticipation of continued political uncertainty. I have always wanted a CZ or 2 since shooting my brother's. So I have 4 now. Waiting for permits for the other 2.
I bought the BB ammo to carry while in the woods in Maine hunting grouse. Was kind of an impulse buy when reading about a 9mm being at all suitable for bear protection. While I'm sure it's debatable I did get convinced the 15 rounds of 9mm that penetrate might be better than 6 of .44 or .357.
As far as Buffalo Bore goes they never got back to me. I've read some fairly negative stuff about the way they answer questions since this came up. I do think it's BS that they have a huge sales pitch, ballistic tables and a story, with pictures, about this load stopping a grizzly bear on the front page. No mention about chambering issues. Im going to try to digest the saami drawings and figure out if the load meets that spec for a 9mm. If it doesn't I might get persistent about getting a refund from them. They make no bones about telling you they don't do that. Won't be ordering from there again.
In any case I guess I need to get to the basement and load. Thank you again.
I have never run across any of the mainstream defensive rounds that would not work perfectly in any of my many CZ's including my well used PCR but I have never tried any of the less mainstream brands like BB or RIP. I just have 2 items on this for you. I would not attempt to reseated the already loaded ammo you are just setting yourself up for failure such as causing the already crimped bullets to be loose or creating an unsafe overpressure situation. I'd just use them in the hi-Power if they fit that.
The second thing is I don't give a rats tail what BB's hype is there's not way in this lifetime that I would venture into places where I might encounter a grizzly bear with anything less than a high powered rifle and at least a .44 magnum as the smallest handgun caliber.
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The second thing is I don't give a rats tail what BB's hype is there's not way in this lifetime that I would venture into places where I might encounter a grizzly bear with anything less than a high powered rifle and at least a .44 magnum as the smallest handgun caliber.
Lol! Depending on the area of the country, it can be hard to get outdoors without at least a chance of a bear encounter.
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You're not going to see a Grizzly in Maine. The black bear is just as nervous about you as you are about them. A weapon is rarely required, unless you happen to get between momma and her cubs. Otherwise, a loud noise will scare them off.
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Iplayforme,
Sounds like a good decision. To give Buffalo Bore a bit of a break the ammo is probably intended as a max hunting rounds so they are pressing the SAMMI max in all directions. At some point with max ammo that is mass produced and pistol barrels that are also mass produced you are going to get a conflict. Sorry that it happened to be with your firearm.
Reloading is a much better option for this anyway. With a reasonable set up and a chronograph you should be able to create ammo that will meet your needs and shoot well in your pistols. Might even save some money. (My wife argues with that assessment :) I use Hornady XTPs for my 147gr hunting loads in both Gand 357 Sig. Have had reasonable results with 9mm and fantastic results with 357 Sig.
Good luck and good shooting.
JW
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I asked CJ about the accuracy issue before I did it.
He was a gunsmith for one of CZ's top shooters at one time. He assured me that
I would not notice a difference with any ammo I use.
I took that to mean, you will still get Alpha Charlie, just like before.....LOL.
I am very pleased with the results I got and have noticed no ill effects on accuracy except I can now use a wider variety of
ammo.
Your mileage may vary.
RCG
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I use Hornady XTPs for my 147gr hunting loads in both Glock and 357 Sig. Have had reasonable results with 9mm and fantastic results with 357 Sig.
• I'm carrying 135gr Federal HST and/or 147gr Speer Gold Dots, both of which fit the stock CZ barrel right off the shelf.
• I love the account of Lewis & Clark Expedition and the white man's first encounter with the grizzly. They had heard the tales from their native American friends, but completely discounted them because they only had bows and arrows. When their party finally did encounter a grizzly, they put something like 8 rifle shots into the beast and it still chased them. Forcing them back into their boat and to re-cross the river to get away.
• Let me also encourage you to look into reloading next year when this all settles down.
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Recoilguy,
Thanks for your information. Have one barrel I will have the throat lengthened. Had a thread on this at one time when I first joined and every gunsmith recommended refused the work. Oddly the bullet I wanted to use was a 147gr, trying to replicate the S&W 52 Wad-cutter loads. Eventually gave up as some 115gr target loads gave me the accuracy I was trying to obtain.
JW
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I've had Patriot Defense ream three barrels for me, all with great success. It's 40 bucks for std. barrels and 60 for melonite (not sure what your's is) and that includes return shipping. For me at least, it made more sense to ream a couple chambers instead of loading different lengths and powder charges for just a couple guns.