The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => VZ-58 semi auto rifle => Topic started by: briang2ad on May 31, 2021, 02:10:57 PM
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We all know how hot the VZ 58 gets in any type of rapid fire.
https://www.bonesteelarms.com/VZ-58-SRS-Lower-Hand-Guard-SRS-VZ-L.htm
orhttps://zahal.org/product/fab-defense-vz-58-vanguard-m-lok-handguard-system/
The bonesteel is great kit, but I suppose the aluminum heats up rapidly. It has covers but they can trap heat.
The Zahal unlike the stock handguard has a heat shield and may prove a good solution.
Anyone have first hand experience? Thanks.
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For heat management, I think I’d choose the Bonesteel and add a good angled or vertical grip.
I’ve bought gear from both companies and never been disappointed.
I run the stock furniture with an aftermarket aluminum heat shield insert (sadly no longer available) and bolted on a pic rail on my bottom handguard to mount a Stark SE-5 Express grip. I’ve also tried a stubby vertical grip and that works well too.
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For heat management, I think I’d choose the Bonesteel and add a good angled or vertical grip.
I’ve bought gear from both companies and never been disappointed.
Yup! That worked for me.
(http://i.imgur.com/R2C7bRtl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/R2C7bRt)
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I still have the NEA rail. running a forgrip for this version needs a rail section and NOT sure I like it - I may be able to stick to a smooth version because the round holes give plenty fo leverage and the rail allows cooling. I MAY stick to it, and the BSA one looks decent. Wonder about weight. NEA setup is light.
Need to think about a side rail. I'd like to keep weight in the rear. Adding stuff up front just seems to through you off om this rifle. Even just a small light and micro add weight.
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I have the NEA rail also, and it does get warm. I'm still looking for options for a front grip or light, since it does not have a side or bottom rail - only the open circles.
I'd post a pic if I could remember how to do it. lol...
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I have the bonesteel handgaurds. I got the grip panel set from slate black industries and have been running it that way for a while now. They dont heat up that much even with doing Kalashnicon summer shoots in Missouri. I did however manage to brand myself on the gas block by grabbing to far up on the gun after a stage there a couple weeks ago.
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I have the NEA rail also, and it does get warm. I'm still looking for options for a front grip or light, since it does not have a side or bottom rail - only the open circles.
I'd post a pic if I could remember how to do it. lol...
I plan on doing the Magpul offset light mount from the top rails. I want to leave the sides of the NEA rail open for more ventilation. I may stick with this because I have it. And... its in a way vintage cool.
https://www.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/12/outdoorhub-czech-vz-58-rifle-kalashnikovs-superior-cousin-2014-12-09_21-10-54.jpg (https://www.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/12/outdoorhub-czech-vz-58-rifle-kalashnikovs-superior-cousin-2014-12-09_21-10-54.jpg)
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For heat management, I think I’d choose the Bonesteel and add a good angled or vertical grip.
I’ve bought gear from both companies and never been disappointed.
Yup! That worked for me.
(http://i.imgur.com/R2C7bRtl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/R2C7bRt)
This is the best way, IMO
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Good look, briang2ad! Can you share about how you mounted the light to the NEA lower? (and a front grip, if you have one. I couldn't tell from the pic). I'm still unclear what to use for the round openings.
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https://www.ebay.com/p/1600172905
I’m not certain this is right but it is a Troy type with round circular deals on the back. I put a gen 2 AFG OM THE BOTTOM AND ITS PERFECT. I plan to use a MP fooset light mount off the top front rail.
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Troy circle rails are licensed from NEA. AFAIK, that's why they licensed/made the NEA Vz58 rails in the first place -- to get rights/license to that rail attachment mechanism for their AR rails.
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Folks: The link I sent is likely NOT right. The quick attach are different and that is what this is. The older Troy ones work, but are VERY hard to find. I had a thread with a link form years ago, but that is inactive.
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Pretty sure these classic with backers will work:
https://www.del-ton.com/Troy-Quick-Attach-Rail-Section-p/mt1040.htm
Not sure about this length, but otherwise should work: https://www.del-ton.com/Troy-Quick-Attach-Rail-Section-p/mt1043.htm
These newer QD ones should too -- and this is Amazon, so if it doesn't returns are easy:
https://www.amazon.com/Troy-Industries-Swivel-Hole-Rail/dp/B0051T8RDM
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The photo is exactly correct on the Delton, but the words are wrong - quick attach are the newer kind that do not work - so you have to call and get the SKU.
The ones at amazon are MLOK and dead wrong.
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Well, I just ordered the AFG-2 (and a T-shirt, while I was there :-) )
So now I need to find a mount that will work for the NEA lower. What exactly should I ask for if I call Del-ton?
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Ask them is this is for the OLD style NOT new handguards - and take have the round male ends that hook into the holes of the rail WITH the backer. Essentially are the same as in the picture. The point is that the pic may be OLD.
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The photo is exactly correct on the Delton, but the words are wrong - quick attach are the newer kind that do not work - so you have to call and get the SKU.
The ones at amazon are MLOK and dead wrong.
No, they aren't MLok. They're designed to allow for easily removable circle rails without having to remove the rail. Somewhat like Mlok, but not MLok. If the circles line up, can't imagine any reason why these wouldn't work.
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For heat management, I think I’d choose the Bonesteel and add a good angled or vertical grip.
I’ve bought gear from both companies and never been disappointed.
I run the stock furniture with an aftermarket aluminum heat shield insert (sadly no longer available) and bolted on a pic rail on my bottom handguard to mount a Stark SE-5 Express grip. I’ve also tried a stubby vertical grip and that works well too.
I haven't tried it but read many accounts of using aluminum flashing from the hardware store or even soda cans to make a heat shield. In a likely over-protective frame of mind, I wanted to preserve barrel life by allowing heat to dissipate instead of retained by a heat shield and drilled vent holes in the beaver barf handguard. It still got too hot, so I bolted on an angled fore grip. It works well, although I still prefer the ergonomics of the original and have to make sure my thumb doesn't wander upwards.
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Well, I just ordered the AFG-2 (and a T-shirt, while I was there :-) )
So now I need to find a mount that will work for the NEA lower. What exactly should I ask for if I call Del-ton?
I don't see why these QARS or Quick Attach Rail System wouldn't work, but I have not tried them myself.
https://www.troyind.com/rail-systems-accessories/rail-accessories/quick-attach-rail-sections (https://www.troyind.com/rail-systems-accessories/rail-accessories/quick-attach-rail-sections)
Just call them and ask what the distance between the cooling circles needs to be and make sure it's what is on your rail. I would suspect it is since the rail is also a Troy/NEA. If you click on the 5.4" section link you can view the installation pdf.
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I think I'll try the QARS. Unfortunately, I won't be back at the house until the end of the month to try it. But I'll send an update then.
Thanks!
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I don't see why these QARS or Quick Attach Rail System wouldn't work, but I have not tried them myself.
because it attaches like an Mlok - the old ones have a circle that fits the TRX rail with a BAR that has screw holes centered to the rail holes. Completely different systems. See the pic of the long rail section in the link you sent.
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I don't see why these QARS or Quick Attach Rail System wouldn't work, but I have not tried them myself.
because it attaches like an Mlok - the old ones have a circle that fits the TRX rail with a BAR that has screw holes centered to the rail holes. Completely different systems. See the pic of the long rail section in the link you sent.
As stated earlier -- it's intended to be an improved attachment system for the exact same rail that doesn't require you to remove the rail to install, and prob also lighter weight. Unless they changed the dimensions or locations of the round holes, then it should work. Troy still sells new rails with round holes and seem to indicate that these should work with all previous gen, so don't believe there's any reason it won't work.
The holes male (picatinny rail) and female (handguard/rail itself) mating provides the strength. The clamping mechanism is merely to keep the rail on and in the event there's a perpendicular pull force on the rail, which would be unlikely. Notice that it's always been just two screws no matter the rail size? The threading junction between the screw and the backer is the weak point in this system, regardless of length or type of backer. Even magpul Mlok rails are only 2 screws until 4+", 9+ slot rails.
*And I'd have to double-check but I'm pretty sure the bar backers are aluminum and if these new similar to mlok backers are steel (magpul's mlok T nuts are steel), then they'd actually be stronger than the former bar at it's weakest point...
Try amazon with their easy returns if you're concerned. But again, it should work best as I and others can tell.
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I ordered it - worth a try.
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Let us know if it works. If so, I'll order direct from Troy. I avoid Amazon when possible.
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Let us know if it works. If so, I'll order direct from Troy. I avoid Amazon when possible.
Good on you - I just want to return easy if its wrong. I'll be the Guinea Pig.
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Let us know if it works. If so, I'll order direct from Troy. I avoid Amazon when possible.
Good on you - I just want to return easy if its wrong. I'll be the Guinea Pig.
Thank you. Please keep us posted. If you got the 5", also curious if that'll install...
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Ok guys, can confirm they fit. Not quite as slick as M-Lok, but they work. I got it on my 2nd try. After a couple of hours in the pub.
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Ok guys, can confirm they fit. Not quite as slick as M-Lok, but they work. I got it on my 2nd try. After a couple of hours in the pub.
Great news. Thank you.
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They stand up off the handguard just a bit, but they lock up real solid. I'm happy with them. This is the 3.2" section.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/199266653_10224258997715186_1001753603090971819_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3RGtykTieYYAX8mesgQ&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=4e1e55177dd8452736b37276eca2a990&oe=60CE5F26)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/201417237_10224258997435179_9014509867300501688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-xskE8Vo2q8AX8DVr3u&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=8bcfbe7db2d66062043a3ebb5e5e06b5&oe=60CE3E3E)
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Thanks for the feedback!
Do you think a longer one would clear that end cap on the front? Looks close.
I'm putting an AFG-2 foregrip on, but wondered if I could put a light in front of the grip.
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Yeah it will clear it. I also tried mounting that 3.2" piece in the holes just forward of where you see it. Worked fine, just overhung the handguard by about 3/8".
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Turns out that Troy Ind is moving to Tenn (good for them!) so could not order online. I called them and they said to order from one of their resellers. I tried and tried and finally gave up and ordered the 4.2" from Amazon. I'll pray for forgiveness tonight. In the meantime, I'll get my order! Thanks for all the help in this thread!
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They stand up off the handguard just a bit, but they lock up real solid. I'm happy with them. This is the 3.2" section.
Thanks for sharing.
Can probably sand or file them down to fit more flush -- you're pushing that back angle crease with that 3.2" rail.
FWIW, I find the 2" rail works fine for the AFG2 on the bottom, and I leave the front hole empty for ventilation...
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Thanks for the feedback!
Do you think a longer one would clear that end cap on the front? Looks close.
I'm putting an AFG-2 foregrip on, but wondered if I could put a light in front of the grip.
Think you'd have better luck cantilevering off the sides where the end cap doesn't meaningfully protrude past the handguard.
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RSR, you have some good points. Good to know that the AFG works with the 2" rail. I'll probably just return the 4.2 (thanks Amazon!) and order the 2".
I love this group. I learn so much every time I'm on.
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I ordered it - worth a try.
I got the rail ON, but it is lose - no good for mine. But, I have the handguard attached and the barrel might be interfering. Do you have the rail off? Did you put the rail on yet?
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I attached mine with the rail on and it tightened up real good. It did take me a couple of tries though, it's a little tricky to get it right.
Chris
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Good look, briang2ad! Can you share about how you mounted the light to the NEA lower? (and a front grip, if you have one. I couldn't tell from the pic). I'm still unclear what to use for the round openings.
I own a set of the NEA handguards with the circles. As far as attachments, you can put M-Lok accessories such as a foregrip or picatinny rail. Also, the picatinny rails made by NEA/Troy Industries that came with the handguards fit as well. But if you want to keep it light, just attach M-lok accessories and skip the pic rail.
Here is a picture of the original pic rails that came with the NEA handrail set. I don't use them because they are very heavy.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51311990935_0a82f4fe87_z.jpg)
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Just to report back, I got the 2" QARS Troy Rail Section, and the AFG-2 angled fore grip. It seems to work fine, but I have not fired it yet.
Looks great, though! ;D
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The QARS rail section I bought (Amazon) will NOT fit on the NEA rail tight - I've tried several times.
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I found that the NEA handguard accepts a Kriss Vector grip quite well, and that keeps the heat off my fingers quite well.
(https://i.imgur.com/jNn6dMa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jNn6dMa.jpg)
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The QARS rail section I bought (Amazon) will NOT fit on the NEA rail tight - I've tried several times.
Correction. I pulled off the top cover and was able to manipulate them on.
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Howdy folks, reviving a bit of an older thread here. I'll admit I'm a VZ 58 noob and came here because of the Garandthumb video, please don't flame! I'm a 5 time CZ owner and even 25% Czech by blood, so I'm still cool, I think :)
Basically, I want to duplicate the SBR Garandthumb had in his video, or something similar. It was a suppressed 7" model. My concern is that a VZ 58 compact, always suppressed, would be a "wear gloves all the time" type of gun. Is there any hope for the compact model as far as heat mitigation? I think the 7" with a suppressor would be awesome, but I'm also wondering if I should wait and try and snag a 12".
Anyone here done the same? Looking for first-hand experience. I appreciate the help!
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Go w/ 12". IMO, there's no point of the 7" except if you want a flamethrower or are doing a Strike Back clone...
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Go w/ 12". IMO, there's no point of the 7" except if you want a flamethrower or are doing a Strike Back clone...
This is the conclusion I arrived at, thanks. Now to catch one in stock.
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Go w/ 12". IMO, there's no point of the 7" except if you want a flamethrower or are doing a Strike Back clone...
This is the conclusion I arrived at, thanks. Now to catch one in stock.
No longer on the interwebs and something I've mentioned before here and elsewhere was Jim Fuller, formerly of Rifle Dynamics, talking about in an old YouTube video of a malfunction with a 7 or 8" Draco AK where it hangfired or misfired into his truck's bed while facing towards his cab when he was disassembling to troubleshoot on his tailgate. Thinking he ruined things in the cab and potentially the engine bay, he was bracing for the worst. But the round (believe 7.62x39) just went through his truck's bed and dented the rear cab body... Since at that time a big part of his client base was private military contracts in the Middle East (both big US troop and contractor presence in Iraq and Afghanistan), that's why RD didn't sell any 7.62x39 AKs shorter than 10.5" and recommended 5.45x39 if folks wanting shorter -- due to reduced diameter he mentioned his belief that it would penetrate deeper.
Have always found it an interesting anecdote, and a big part if folks wanting super short, why it might be worth looking in to pistol caliber carbines or .300 BLK that's optimized for 8-9" barrels IIRC.
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This is the conclusion I arrived at, thanks. Now to catch one in stock.
Currently in stock at Czechpoint -- brace yourself for an over $1,600 pricetag, which is a 33% price hike in one year if I'm remembering correctly @$1250 pre-Biden.
Got the email at 3pm, so apparently others on the notification list agree w/ me that price is now too dang high -- especially with impending BATF actions that may ban and require SBR registration for these "pistols"...
https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/vz-58-pistol-762b/product