The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => VZ-58 semi auto rifle => Topic started by: briang2ad on October 19, 2021, 11:24:30 AM
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I've had no luck getting a CSA low mount to work on my rail for now. I might continue and get the RSR system, but:
- If you use a high mount you can get both irons and RD access, but you really need a riser as they recommend and I don't like that if you NEED the irons.
- If you go low, the irons are blocked, and you need to detach the RD to use.
I MAY like cowitness on the front rail (I have NEA) now. Puts more weight forward (a negative) and uses up the rail where I wanted to mount a light (NEA is limited). Right now I have a PA micro on it and lower cowitness is OK.
I am thinking of going to a REFLEX option - like Burris, or something else. I ONLY want one that can cowitness with irons - any recommendations? Vortex? SIG? etc.? (They are smaller and lighter).
Thanks.
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I've had no luck getting a CSA low mount to work on my rail for now. I might continue and get the RSR system, but:
- If you use a high mount you can get both irons and RD access, but you really need a rifle as they recommend and I don't like that if you NEED the irons.
- If you go low, the irons are blocked, and you need to detach the RD to use.
I MAY like cowitness on the front rail (I have NEA) now. Puts more weight forward (a negative) and uses up the rail where I wanted to mount a light (NEA is limited). Right now I have a PA micro on it and lower cowitness is OK.
I am thinking of going to a REFLEX option - like Burris, or something else. I ONLY want one that can cowitness with irons - any recommendations? Vortex? SIG? etc.? (They are smaller and lighter).
Thanks.
You may be over estimating the value of co-witnessing the optic and the irons on the Vz58 (I know I did at first). The problem is that the irons on the Vz58 are so bleep low, especially if you’re using a straight AR15-type butt stock, and there are no reasonable alternative (taller) iron sight options for the Vz58 — believe me, I looked.
Finally, I just gave up and put an RS Regulate side mount on it with a Primary Arms 3x ACSS Prism optic, which are excellent. If the battery dies or the illumination goes out for some reason, you’ve still got the (excellent) ACSS reticle etched in the glass. If, for some reason, even though the ACSS reticle is still visible, you REALLY want to use the irons, just flip the lever and remove the RS Regulate mount and optic - viola! Zero is repeatable on the RS Regulate mount.
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Thanks for the useful comments.
What stock are you using. I am relearning to like the standard folder, but would not mind using a SIG Minimalist. Not sure it can use irons. Whatever I do, I MUST be able to use irons if needed.
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Thanks for the useful comments.
What stock are you using. I am relearning to like the standard folder, but would not mind using a SIG Minimalist. Not sure it can use irons. Whatever I do, I MUST be able to use irons if needed.
I don’t care for the usual low slung / downward angled Vz58 butt stock configuration as it accentuates muzzle flip, so I put on a Stormwerks straight line butt stock adaptor along with the usual Mil Spec AR15 buffer tube and collapsible butt stock, so everything is straight in line with the bore. For me, in this configuration, getting onto the irons is a bit of a neck stretch, but it can be done.
However, since the PA ACSS reticle is so much better than the irons, illuminated or not, I would only use the iron sights if for some reason I decided to remove the PA 3x optic, say, if it got destroyed somehow, which ain’t gonna happen because they’re built like tanks.
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NEA with micro red dot weighs about the same as the stock upper HG.
Reflex actually sit a tad higher than micro red dots as battery sits below the lens. Also, really need protective wings for serious use, which may raise higher, and lose most of what's generally a lower 1/3rd co-witness with NEA rail.
There is adequate room/rail space for angled adapter for light and micro red dot (enough that you might be able to fit two micro red dots inline), but most mount lights off of lower HG side rails. Just make sure your light angle mount sits as low to the rail as possible so as to not impede red dot lens. If wanting a light/laser combo, then would recommend mounting off of upper HG.
For maximum lower handguard real estate the modified magpul AK offerings from Dan Brown are the longest I'm aware of.
The value of cowitnessed red dot is that you get a circle (or partial w/ open ear -- my preference since sight hood doesn't perfectly center post for most common zeros) within a circle plus the post and dot which makes sight acquisition very fast and good enough at CQB distances -- you're not limited to just the dot/reticle -- the larger red dot housing circle and smaller sight hood circle (or partial open-eared brackets) and then the post plus the red dot...
There was previous discussion here in another thread about my preference for the Vortex Spitfire 1x DRT reticle if not cowitnessing w/ irons, as well as their new Strike Eagle reticles that make sight acquisition similarly fast -- but one sits too high and the other issues w/ Vz58s' ejection so neither appropriate for this platform IMO. And as someone else covered in another thread, the minimal sight offset of cowitnessing is also of value.
For a variety of reasons, my VZ58s are configured as carbines, which red dots co-witnessed are ideally suited. If I need a rifle, I'll grab one with a variable optic and a flatter shooting caliber better suited for distance.
Am curious about Mojo and MagWedge peep/ghost ring rear sights potential for my setup (particularly about crisping up the dot given astigmatism), but with lower 1/3rd see anticipate more detriment than benefit (impeding sight picture and forcing dot out of center of lens, which could also detrimentally impact POI) for majority of time when I'm using the dot, so haven't spent the money to trial. The rear CSA stock adapter w/ rail is also intriguing, but stock sits quite low (creating mechanical deficiencies that result in increased felt recoil/muzzle flip/cheek slap vs higher inline+ mount) and again not sure how it'd play w/ red dot plus loss of much of the ranging adjustment integral to stock rear sight.
Bigdude's MagWedge w/ milled and custom max-low mount reflex sight photos help illustrate such concerns here: https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=115204.msg903902#msg903902
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48394682017_9018edcd6f_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51314764882_6974df252a.jpg)
Edit/addition -- here's the rear CSA sight photo/more info: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/06/19/back-up-rear-sight-mounted-on-vz-58-stock-adapter/
(https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/CSA-Backup-Rear-Sight-Mounted-on-Vz.-58-Stock-Adapter-7.jpg)
Last -- be sure to search the forum. A lot of this has been covered previously.
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I DO so wish that SOMEONE made a micro with a low mount AND the ACSS reticle! For now, I must use a forward mount sight, as I have given up on the CSA mounting system, and RS Reg seems to be a victim of the Chinese Communist Virus. Too bad for us.
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I DO so wish that SOMEONE made a micro with a low mount AND the ACSS reticle! For now, I must use a forward mount sight, as I have given up on the CSA mounting system, and RS Reg seems to be a victim of the Chinese Communist Virus. Too bad for us.
You mean like this? https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-paralow-hs503g-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle
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You mean like this? https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-paralow-hs503g-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle
Maybe: Would still like to see a PRISM optic that is also cowitness. Also does this HS sight have a low mount like the Micro, or do you have to cowitness through the high mount?
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You mean like this? https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-paralow-hs503g-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle
Maybe: Would still like to see a PRISM optic that is also cowitness. Also does this HS sight have a low mount like the Micro, or do you have to cowitness through the high mount?
You're not going to see 1x prisms that mount as low as the micros due to construction. And b/c of the way prisms (1x or low mag 2x and 3x) work like standard scopes in collecting and reflecting light rather than pass through, there remains an advantage w/ larger tubes in both low light and fov that are negligible concerns w/ micro red dots. So, you're going to always see 1x prisms at least 1/4-1/2" higher, w/ 1/3" higher being about average if you pick lowest of each. PA has lowest of their new 1x at 1.1" to center (and lowest I've seen visually as smaller diameter glass -- same diameter as micro red dots I think -- larger diameter glass necessarily raises the center) vs micro red dots usually being about .75" to .8" to center depending on height of 1x low mount.
(https://images.primaryarms.com/f00000000191638/www.primaryarms.com/SSP%20Applications/NetSuite%20Inc.%20-%20SCA%20Mont%20Blanc/Development/img/PA-SLX-1XMP-CYCLOPS-FDE_14.jpg?fcts=20210929082334&resizeid=7&resizeh=0&resizew=2000)
https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-slx-1x-micro-prism-with-red-illuminated-acss-cyclops-gen-2-reticle-flat-dark-earth
To your 2nd ? -- on the website:
The HS503G is a proven micro dot sight with an auto-on function that switches on the power with a slight movement of the sight. It comes with a 1913 Picatinny base which is removable, revealing an Aimpoint Micro-compatible base underneath. It also comes with the lower 1/3rd co-witness riser mount shown in the photos.
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RSR: Excellent input - thank you sir!
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RSR: Excellent input - thank you sir!
The only thing that could lower further is a top rail that has a direct mount for your optic's removable base. Such as aimpoint like Midwest makes for AKs: https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/product-p/mi-ak-t1-vs-blk.htm
*But given top cover serves as piston channel/guard on vz58, uncertain if it would definitely work, but could probably be made to be serviceable if not reliable. But such direct connect would increase heat transfer to optic more than picatinny mount though...
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/rkkcm.yujjz/v/vspfiles/photos/MI-AK-T1-VS-BLK-2.jpg?v-cache=1500895032)
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I don't think the MI mount would work at all. No, if I guess the only way to do cowitness on the VZ 58 is to go micro red dot.
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Between all the different brands of red dot optics the Primary Arms SLX microprism is at the top of my list right now.