The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: Tanners Owner on March 09, 2022, 08:11:42 AM
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Am considering another da/sa handgun and am looking at the sig P2022, Walther P99 and CZ P07. Of there I’d prefer a P07, but haven’t seen much availability locally
Of these I have what I consider similar experience with my P09 and have a Sig P220.
What I’m interested in is feedback and thoughts from those who may have them or had them. What are your likes, dislikes
Purpose would be primarily as a house gun, occasionally carried
Admin- if this is in the wrong area, please move.
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I'd lean heavily toward the P-07, with the P99 a close second. I actually traded my first pistol(P99AS) for a P07 Duty. At the time, I was carrying the P99 and the grip was a little bulky for concealment. The P07 carried better and I was more accurate with it as well.
That said, I really liked the paddle mag release and decocker on the P99. Some of the early ones had a proprietary light rail, but I think that was updated in later versions. Sometimes I get nostalgic for the Walther, but I still have the P07 and it's a keeper.
I had some range time with a friend's P2022 and didn't really connect with it. He later sold it, so I guess he didn't either.
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I have a P07 and a 2022. Love them both. But, the 2022 is my nightstand gun with an Olight mini on it. Reason is, I have a lot of rounds thru it and I trust it. A much as I like the P07, it doesnt have enough rounds in it yet to totally trust it. For any carry or house gun, I put at least 500 rounds of different FMJ thru it, and then at least several boxes of the JHP that I'll carry in it.
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Personally (having experience with all 3) I'd rank them as follows.
1.P-07
2.P2022
3.P99
I'd get the P-07 over the others to begin with, but especially if I already had a P-09 as you do as the 07 can also use 09 mags.
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I bought a new 2022 back in December, or maybe November.
Limited amount of shooting so far and I've found out it doesn't do well with the 115 grain hollow point load my CZs and M&P Shields do so well with.
Shot some 115 grain FMJ and 125 grain LRN reloads through it and so far neither of those make is shine either, although the 115 grain FMJ was the best of the three mentioned so far.
Funny thing about the 2022 is the 148 grain reloads I worked up for my CZ 9MM pistols (not real accurate in the CZs but not the point of this observation, just additional info.) I had a lot of 147 grain reloads worked up for my old 1.0 M&P 9MM FS pistol. Reliable, but not as accurate as I'd like. In the CZ P09, P01, etc. those reloads would tumble something fierce even at 7 yds. Nice shotgun like pattern of long holes in the paper. Even so the load was reliable as far as functioning goes in the CZs. So I increased the powder charge and got them to stop tumbling in the CZs (they still shot lousy groups). I took a partial box of those with me to the range for the 2022's first range trip and they go bang, they don't tumble, the groups are no better/worse than in the CZs but they flat will not function. It's like shooting a bolt action rifle. You let the slide go to chamber a round, you pull the trigger, it goes bang, it puts a hole in the paper and the hammer is still forward with the empty in the chamber. Work the slide, eject the empty, chamber another round and it repeats. Put 15 rounds in a magazine and you'll work the slide by hand 15 times. Weird, I know. I have not tried any factory ammo in it at all. I have not tried any 124 grain hollow points in it yet. I've not given up on it, just haven't spent any time working up loads to take it back to the range.
Mags. are more expensive than P07 mags at $42 to $48 each.
Apparently there are two versions of it. Early models with a rounded trigger guard and later ones with a more square trigger guard and it makes a difference when buying holsters.
Mine has a decent SA trigger on it. Not bad at all. DA is what I'd call fairly predictable. I'm not a DA guy but I can tell when this one is about to hit the wall and drop the hammer, so better than some other DA first shot pistols I've shot.
Night sights may be harder to find for the 2022 than the P07. Well, night sights you'd prefer if you're picky.
Not nearly as much seems to be available in the way of aftermarket parts either. As CZ owners we can be spoiled by CGW and CZ Custom considering how much they offer for our pistols.
The only other thing I can say about it is that shooting it with the factory 15 round mags. is just fine. Put one of the 17 round mags in it (15 round tube with a +2 base on it similar to what we see/use on our CZs) and it pinch my little finger to the point that it's not much fun to shoot after a few rounds. I'll be ordering more 15 round magazines for it.
Oh, new mine cost me $499 at that gun show. No idea what they may be going for other places.
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I've got the P-07 in both calibers and I prefer the 40 S&W over the 9mm but that's just me. I put the MCarbo spring kit in the 40, Holy Cow, it made a perfect gun even more perfect. I don't own the others mentioned so I can't compare but as the saying go's," Once you shoot the best, why mess with the rest"!!
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2022 is Sig's best kept secret. Great trigger out of the box, I carried one on duty for a while. never missed a beat.
I have tried a P-07 on a T&E, and didn't find it as good, although I'm sure it could be made as smooth as any pistol with enough time and few parts from CGW/CZ Custom.
Never tried a P-09, but Joe L. seems to like his well enough.
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Super feedback, really appreciate it- anyone else?
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I've had three P2022's over the years and still have the first one in 9mm (German made, triple serial numbered). They are great pistols for the money. The triggers are not bad "out of the box" but they aren't like a Shadow series either. They are functional for a service weapon. The other two I had didn't have as good of a trigger as my first (German) and the decocker lever was slightly different but they were still acceptable. I haven't shot the Walther but the P07 had a lower bore axis from what I remember (I don't own one) and the trigger was a little "mushier". However, as someone mentioned there are some aftermarket parts that possibly correct that.
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I have no Sig experience, none of them ever caught my interest. I'm sure the 2022 is great.
However, the P99 AS and P-07 are tied for my favorite pistols of all time. I have four examples of the P99 AS and two P-07s. In a perfect world I could combine what I love about them both into one perfect pistol.
P99 Pros:
- The ergonomics are second to none.
- The paddle mag release is imo the best way to go about an ambi mag release and it doesn't require extra practice or training if you use it correctly. Put your thumb where a traditional mag release button would be located and apply opposing pressure to the bottom of the trigger guard with your middle finger. That method works on all mag releases except heel release obviously.
- The trigger, oh lordy the trigger! Sprinco offers a reduced power striker spring and reduced power firing pin block spring. With those two upgrades the P99 has absolutely the best DA/SA trigger I've ever experienced, ever. Of course that is subjective but I could wax poetic.
- With the medium back strap installed, the P99 is the most natural pointing pistol I've ever fired. Also subjective.
P99 Cons:
- The slide and recoil spring are both heavier than they need to be imo which result in snappier recoil and more muzzle rise than most pistols in its class. But that also means theoretically, more reliability.
- The P99 AS cannot be milled for optics because of the decocker. There is a work-around for that but I won't get into it unless someone is very interested.
- The slide release is in an awkward location. Sometimes my thumb finds its way onto it while firing and I get failure to lock open on empty. Also subjective.
- The biggest con of all is that it has been discontinued as a standard production item by Walther. If you find one expect to pay a premium, new or used. The only current production clone is the Canik TP9DA. If you have trouble finding a P99 you could search for a used Smith & Wesson SW99 or Magnum Research MR9 Eagle. I actually like the MR9 slightly better than the P99 but that is solely based on personal preference. They're basically identical.
P-07 Pros:
- In my experience the P07 has the least felt recoil and muzzle rise of any pistol in it's class.
- The P07 can be milled to accept any pistol optic available (I think, don't quote me).
- I'm not sure how much detail I should go into here since you already own a P-09 and this is a CZ forum after all. I love almost everything about the P07.
P-07 Cons:
- The control levers could use some refining.
- There are no optics ready options from the factory.
- The action might need work, more than just replacing parts, to reach it's potential.
I don't think you will be disappointed with any of those three pistols you've narrowed down to. Maybe you should plan on acquiring all three eventually?
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……Maybe you should plan on acquiring all three eventually?
Great minds think alike…….however, “she who must be obeyed” objects ;D
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Hahaha maybe you could tell her that men and their pistols are like women and their shoes?
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Hahaha maybe you could tell her that men and their pistols are like women and their shoes?
I could, but it would be a losing battle & a wise man knows what battles to fight….. that said, I’m a blessed man to have such a good wife.
She’s endured being a military spouse for 20+ years with my absences and frequent moves. She shoots ASI with me, so we get to have fun at the range together. That was a fight I won…..which is another story. She’s also allowed me to amass a small collection of guns, so I can’t complain in all honesty. If I did, I’d be a fool.
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To be fair, I have shot a P99 1 time and I thought it was great. That being said, I have personally owned the P2022 and the P-07, and I still own the P-07. Not taking anything away from the Sig, I must say that the P-07 is a much better shooter, at least it is for me. Both are accurate and ergonomic, but the P-07 I found easier to make faster follow up shots due to the recoil impulse caused by what I believe to be a lower bore axis. I like the CZ grips, trigger, and overall ergonomics better. Of course, this is all my subjective opinion.
Between the 3, I would choose the P-07. I like to carry my urban gray suppressor version.