The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: Krugermeier on August 29, 2022, 01:44:19 PM
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I discovered CZ last year with the CZ97B. I like them because I hate plastic guns. The 97B and 75 are the best feeling pistols I've ever held and shot. Yesterday I saw they made something called the RAMI in .40, which is perfect for what I'm looking for. Turned out they discontinued the 97B and RAMI. I hear there might be an acquisition by Colt as well? What gives? Why are they discontinuing everything, is there anything new on the horizon? Is CZ on their way out?
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Yep, Colt is evil according to a thread on this forum.
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Yesterday I saw they made something called the RAMI in .40, which is perfect for what I'm looking for. Turned out they discontinued the 97B and RAMI. I hear there might be an acquisition by Colt as well? What gives? Why are they discontinuing everything, is there anything new on the horizon? Is CZ on their way out?
The Rami .40 has been gone for awhile now as CZ gave up on the .40 a few years ago. The 97 while a great gun was likely not a superhot seller and wasn't produced in the high numbers other models are since the .45 is pretty much a US market only seller anyway. I have a pair myself. The standard 75 series guns seem to be pretty stable and likely won't be going anywhere soon. No one knows for sure what the Colt merger will look like but CZ isn't on their way out. CZ has many military contracts across the globe and they can survive just fine even without the US market. Given the sad state we are in here I wouldn't blame them if they did pull out of here.
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They have been producing the CZ 97 since…. 1997. So I’d say your timing is just off. Now if you want to really start feeling bad start shooting CZ rifles. Lots of models discontinued and replaced by something not as good, IMO. Don’t even ponder the lack of current caliber selections compared to past production unless you have a box of tissues.
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Everything? I still see many new P10, p07 and 75 series pistols at the LGS. Have they stopped making everything?
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You just happen to like two of the models that most likely were not selling very well. The 97 is very nice, but held on as long as it could and even past I think. The Rami is an excellent little handgun and I used to own a 9mm BD version that I should have kept. I just do not see it surviving the current market with all the micro 9mm handguns out these days.
As for Colt, that already happened. The other thread mentioned does not call Colt evil I would say, but focuses on how the company is all but failed and CZ should turn them around.
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Steel frame race guns are preferred for competition where more weight is preferred, i.e. Shadow 2, TS2. Polymer guns are preferred for carry due to their light weight. The 97 and Rami are not ideal for competition or carry. I'm not happy to see them go but it makes sense.
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Steel frame race guns are preferred for competition where more weight is preferred, i.e. Shadow 2, TS2. Polymer guns are preferred for carry due to their light weight. The 97 and Rami are not ideal for competition or carry. I'm not happy to see them go but it makes sense.
The CZ97 and the Rami are two prime examples of CZ having very good guns that they didn’t have the vision to carry far enough and ultimate screwed the pooch. Unfortunately, CZ seems to be making a habit of that lately (i.e. with Colt).
If Cz had bothered to chamber the 97 in 10mm, they’d be riding the crest of the 10mm resurgence right now, and if they’d really had some imagination, they’d chamber it in 7.5 FK Brno as well and make it optics ready.
The Rami is probably the sweetest subcompact ever made: supremely ergonomic, reliable, accurate and a nice DA/SA trigger. All it needed was to be updated with a rail and to be made optics ready.
But nooooo…they had to make a plastique Glock clone so they could try to cash in on the fad, cheap manufacturing / higher profit margins. And now CZ is forced to give rebates on their Glock clones (even though they arguably make a better Glock than Glock itself) because the Glock and Glock clone market is saturated.
They just don’t have the vision or the balls to follow through these days.
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I do agree that CZ could be focusing on bringing the metal frame guns (along with P07/P09) "up to date" for a lack of better terms. The last real push I see to update the line up was with the SP-01 Tac. They should take note of Beretta and the revival of the 92. I believe that Ernest Langdon with his release of the Elite LTT really started the wave and then combined with Beretta coming out with the M9A4, X Models and the X Performance, the 92 is very alive and well and being talked about again.
I just hope CZ realizes that they hold a very significant share of DA/SA fans here in the US. We love our CZ handguns and regard them very highly which I think causes us to hold CZ-USA overall to a high standard.
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I think CZ missed the real deal with the 45 cal line. A 45 cal P0-1 would have been a much better seller than the 97. Would make a great EDC firearm.
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If Cz had bothered to chamber the 97 in 10mm, they’d be riding the crest of the 10mm resurgence right now
This is what I was going to say, but you beat me to it.
I'm glad that I purchased a 40S&W CZ75 while they were available. Same with the 40S&W HiPower. I wish I had purchased a 40S&W RAMI. Mostly, I wish I had purchased a CZ40 B. Perhaps CZ will revive it since they've purchased Colt.
(https://www.littlegun.info/arme%20tchecoslovaque/cz%2040b%20cal%2040-01.jpg)
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It's all down to what makes money. If the sales were there to keep models in production, they would stay in production. Note the PCR, PO1 and Compact pistol are all still listed in production, because they are very popular. The P-10 series has taken off like a rocket, hence the new models. There was exactly one CZ-97 chambered in 10mm, and the guy who shot it told me they practically had to saw the pistol in two to make it work. I believe that pistol is on display at CZ headquarters. As for 10mm, heck yes, I'd love to see a Scorpion in 10mm, best subgun cartridge out there in my uninformed opinion, but the sales aren't there to justify the tooling and dies.
40 S&W is still around, but not nearly as popular as it was back in the day. I agree the RAMI was a neat pistol and my son loves his, but it was a reworked shrunk down version of the CZ 40, itself a "use up" of leftover Colt Z-40 parts. As CCW guns go, it was just fine, but I guess the market didn't think so. The P-10S has taken that niche, and the P-10 Micro taking it one step further to compete with the Ruger LC/EC 9 series.
I make no excuses for what CZ does, but ultimately they are a profit driven company, and as sad as it is, (I miss the CZ 527 series!), they try to stay current and produce what the market here and overseas wants.
Now, having said all that drivel, if you want to keep certain models, it never ever hurts to contact CZ directly and let them know. If the company sees a market for something, well, we know how this works. 8)
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It's all down to what makes money. If the sales were there to keep models in production, they would stay in production. Note the PCR, PO1 and Compact pistol are all still listed in production, because they are very popular. The P-10 series has taken off like a rocket, hence the new models. There was exactly one CZ-97 chambered in 10mm, and the guy who shot it told me they practically had to saw the pistol in two to make it work. I believe that pistol is on display at CZ headquarters. As for 10mm, heck yes, I'd love to see a Scorpion in 10mm, best subgun cartridge out there in my uninformed opinion, but the sales aren't there to justify the tooling and dies.
40 S&W is still around, but not nearly as popular as it was back in the day. I agree the RAMI was a neat pistol and my son loves his, but it was a reworked shrunk down version of the CZ 40, itself a "use up" of leftover Colt Z-40 parts. As CCW guns go, it was just fine, but I guess the market didn't think so. The P-10S has taken that niche, and the P-10 Micro taking it one step further to compete with the Ruger LC/EC 9 series.
I make no excuses for what CZ does, but ultimately they are a profit driven company, and as sad as it is, (I miss the CZ 527 series!), they try to stay current and produce what the market here and overseas wants.
Now, having said all that drivel, if you want to keep certain models, it never ever hurts to contact CZ directly and let them know. If the company sees a market for something, well, we know how this works. 8)
RE: the failed 10mm CZ 97…and yet, Tanfoglio has been successfully churning out excellent 10mm CZ 75 clones, with both plastic and cast frames, for years in various models and in various calibers (.45, .40 & 9mm). But CZ, who invented the design, can’t (or won’t) do it. So CZ has missed the resurgent 10mm wave.
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Those bastards also discontinued the optic ready version of p10s >:(
Doesn’t make sense when everyone else is moving towards optics ready pistols.
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Those bastards also discontinued the optic ready version of p10s >:(
Doesn’t make sense when everyone else is moving towards optics ready pistols.
Good God!!! I hadn’t heard that, but that’s supremely stupid — but not at all surprising from CZ at this point. Not that I’m any fan of the (factory cash rebate) Glock clones, but every model of CZ’s pistols, especially the metal CZ75 variants, should at least have the option of getting an optics-ready slide from the factory.
It seems over the past few years that CZ has been on a mission to commit brand suicide. At this moment, CZ is hard at work, pouring tons of money into Colt, busily rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
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Those bastards also discontinued the optic ready version of p10s >:(
That's not true. Optics ready versions of the s, c, and f are all still current production items
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Go to the cz website, the p10s optics ready is listed as $0.00. I tried to get one and the LGS said that the optics ready version is not offered by cz. It’s also not on gunbroker unless it’s used.
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Go to the cz website, the p10s optics ready is listed as $0.00. I tried to get one and the LGS said that the optics ready version is not offered by cz. It’s also not on gunbroker unless it’s used.
There are backorders on all the OR models, but they're still being produced.
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Go to the cz website, the p10s optics ready is listed as $0.00. I tried to get one and the LGS said that the optics ready version is not offered by cz. It’s also not on gunbroker unless it’s used.
There are backorders on all the OR models, but they're still being produced.
Really? It’s not on their 2022 product catalogue. According to their lineup, only the F and C are optics ready. I just contacted CZ to be sure since I’ve been looking for one for months.
https://cz-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/9996-CZ-2022-CatalogDIGITAL_4-5-22.pdf
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Go to the cz website, the p10s optics ready is listed as $0.00. I tried to get one and the LGS said that the optics ready version is not offered by cz. It’s also not on gunbroker unless it’s used.
I see some new OR P10C's on GB, just not that many. The OR version is in higher demand. If you want to snag one then check GB everyday and I'm sure a new one will pop up.
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Go to the cz website, the p10s optics ready is listed as $0.00. I tried to get one and the LGS said that the optics ready version is not offered by cz. It’s also not on gunbroker unless it’s used.
I see some new OR P10C's on GB, just not that many. The OR version is in higher demand. If you want to snag one then check GB everyday and I'm sure a new one will pop up.
I’m looking for S, not C. I can buy the C at the lgs, but the S is not offered in optics ready, according to the dealer.
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Call CZ directly, and ask for a stocking dealer that has one in stock.
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The CZ97 and the Rami are two prime examples of CZ having very good guns that they didn’t have the vision to carry far enough and ultimate screwed the pooch. Unfortunately, CZ seems to be making a habit of that lately (i.e. with Colt).
If Cz had bothered to chamber the 97 in 10mm, they’d be riding the crest of the 10mm resurgence right now, and if they’d really had some imagination, they’d chamber it in 7.5 FK Brno as well and make it optics ready.
The Rami is probably the sweetest subcompact ever made: supremely ergonomic, reliable, accurate and a nice DA/SA trigger. All it needed was to be updated with a rail and to be made optics ready.
They just don’t have the vision or the balls to follow through these days.
This. All the talk about "not best seller" is the kind of thinking that leads to the lowest common denominator products. And how the world became full of cheap plastic guns. A 97/10mm would be riding the wave now (the 7.5 FK would be a dream and has CZ ties). I also happen to own 3 RAMI and won't sell them - too good for the money and size. If I want really small I pack a P938.
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RAMI is not a perfect carry pistol. it's just to thick. yeah, with a good holster you can carry even a 1911. yep, good luck with that. the trigger pull on RAMI was way to long. I prefer P10s or Walther PPS. or even single stack glock.
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with a good holster you can carry even a 1911. yep, good luck with that.
Funny or should I say FUNNY since I've carried many a 1911 for four+ decades with mediocre holsters.
But then again, I have never been a "operator" nor gun toting ninja.
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...yeah, with a good holster you can carry even a 1911. yep, good luck with that.
My Dan Wesson CCO is no bigger, or heavier, than a PCR. I carry it regularly. ;)
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with a good holster you can carry even a 1911. yep, good luck with that.
Funny or should I say FUNNY since I've carried many a 1911 for four+ decades with mediocre holsters.
But then again, I have never been a "operator" nor gun toting ninja.
+1
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You all should know CZ does this all the time and re releases the models under new sku numbers. Is this you all's first time dealing with CZ?
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You all should know CZ does this all the time and re releases the models under new sku numbers. Is this you all's first time dealing with CZ?
No, it's not. For the record the CZ models I care about haven't been re-released under new monikers (CZ rifles)
They are just GONE. Only to be replaced by questionable offerings, while the discontinued models didn't NEED replacing to begin with.
GREED. Make it cheaper, sell it as dear, claim it's an improvement.
The opposite of what drew me to CZ firearms to begin with.
That's all I have to say. I am officially a collector of "older model CZ firearms" at this point. Nothing more.
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You all should know CZ does this all the time and re releases the models under new sku numbers. Is this you all's first time dealing with CZ?
No, it's not. For the record the CZ models I care about haven't been re-released under new monikers (CZ rifles)
They are just GONE. Only to be replaced by questionable offerings, while the discontinued models didn't NEED replacing to begin with.
GREED. Make it cheaper, sell it as dear, claim it's an improvement.
The opposite of what drew me to CZ firearms to begin with.
That's all I have to say. I am officially a collector of "older model CZ firearms" at this point. Nothing more.
Yep. That’s it in a nutshell. I just hope we can continue to get parts for our “vintage” CZs and that CZ UB and CZ USA don’t pull a “SIG” on discontinued models. But I’m sure there’ll continue to be a robust aftermarket.
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RAMI is not a perfect carry pistol. it's just to thick. yeah, with a good holster you can carry even a 1911. yep, good luck with that. the trigger pull on RAMI was way to long. I prefer P10s or Walther PPS. or even single stack glock.
Not for you. My normal carry except for very hot weather is a P226 or FS92 or 75 BD. The RAMI feels tiny to me. Concealed 1911 is a very real thing. Like all CZ, the RAMIs have been to the shop and have the full Cajun work up. Nothing wrong with my triggers.
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Those bastards also discontinued the optic ready version of p10s >:(
Doesn’t make sense when everyone else is moving towards optics ready pistols.
If it doesn’t make sense then something is going on for sure. I wonder if they are shifting to something new
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My normal carry except for very hot weather is a P226 or FS92 or 75 BD.
Those are big full size guns. You are an exception to what most like in a concealed carry pistol which is primarily a small size. But, if it works for you then that's what matters. I have three children and drive a two seat convertible. It's definitely not typical, but it works for me. :)
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Well bottom line is there are so many..."I have to have the new model to add to the collection" that anything sells once the market shrinks for the older models of some firearms. How many own a compact..P01 P01 Omega.. Shadow...and so on? CZ, like all the rest keep track on what sells and what they can make the most off of. They have done a fine job so far of developing and manufacturing various firearms to satisfy many buyers, but not all models are desired by every CZ buyer. Either the design or the cost determines my and most people purchases.
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Well bottom line is there are so many..."I have to have the new model to add to the collection" that anything sells once the market shrinks for the older models of some firearms. How many own a compact..P01 P01 Omega.. Shadow...and so on? CZ, like all the rest keep track on what sells and what they can make the most off of. They have done a fine job so far of developing and manufacturing various firearms to satisfy many buyers, but not all models are desired by every CZ buyer. Either the design or the cost determines my and most people purchases.
CZ has been doing a bleep job with the Bren 2, especially the x39 version. Jamming issues, no parts, no service going on 4 years now. Could have been a “SCAR Killer” and a better alternative to the AR15, but they’ve totally dropped the ball, at least here in the US, biggest market in the world.
As far as handguns, they seem to be pushing the lowest common denominator: cheap plastic Glock clones instead of the bread & butter high quality CZ75 variants that they built their (formerly) stellar reputation on.
I hear their sporting gun customers are none too happy, either, with the direction CZ is going.
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I agree with a lot of the sentiment here. I think the problem is that too many fat-so can't tote the weight of a real steel gun. IMO - If you are already out of shape, you should be trimming down the weight on your belly not your carry pistol. I commonly carry 97B in shoulder holster both open and concealed in the hot Bama sun /miata, so all of my poly loving friends get the eye roll..
I work from home most of the time so its not a full day thing, but I do also carry the 97 on roadbike rides too (great training weight).
Here is the way I see it from a comp/rangefun pistol shooter(mainly):
They are pushing the TS2 heavy as its their newest $$$$ - a lot of the upper class just buy that and go shoot I would think. I bet they will be doing a checkmate2 next year or 2.
I think 40 is out because of 9MAJ is now becoming more popular with the ability of Naas3 /shock cases.
I think they did miss the boat on the 97. My SAR K2 5 has a rail and hold 15. I think if CZ added a 10mm option, rail, shorter with 12 rounds at least that would have helped. I thought there was a 10mm conversion service for CZ custom. Am I dreaming about that or remembering it wrong?
Anyway I don't shoot the rifles but I know plenty that do and they seem disappointed.
What I would LOVE to see from CZ (or anyone) is a single stack alloy frame, hammer fired 30SC.
cheers! stay safe for the weekend!
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My normal carry except for very hot weather is a P226 or FS92 or 75 BD.
Those are big full size guns. You are an exception to what most like in a concealed carry pistol which is primarily a small size. But, if it works for you then that's what matters. I have three children and drive a two seat convertible. It's definitely not typical, but it works for me. :)
Most people I know carry full or mid-size. Only in the miserable heat and humidity of DC do I reach for the smaller guns. There never used to be micro 9s so that's what the world did.
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CZC did make a 97BD conversion to 10mm but dropped it and (told to me) something along the lines of the gun couldn't handle a steady diet of full loads. The 10 has a new wave for now and I hope it is the new 45. My APC10 Pro is amazing. And have 3 Sig P220/10 and a G20 for hunting/bear backup. At full loads, its a great round.
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Concealed 1911 is a very real thing.
Yep.
But some people have never heard of Officer sized 1911's.
(My typical carry is a Springfield Lightweight Compact PX9503L 1911 in 45acp)
(https://i.imgur.com/rSrZR5c.jpg?2)
---> Also carried a CZ75 Compact (#91190) before I gifted it to a family member. To my knowledge, those are still available from the CZ catalog.
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CZC did make a 97BD conversion to 10mm but dropped it and (told to me) something along the lines of the gun couldn't handle a steady diet of full loads. The 10 has a new wave for now and I hope it is the new 45. My APC10 Pro is amazing. And have 3 Sig P220/10 and a G20 for hunting/bear backup. At full loads, its a great round.
CZ-USA made one total CZ-97 in 10mm. It worked, but the market apparently wasn't big enough for them to do it full time, especially counting the world market. Remember, there was no US plant at that time - maybe with using the Colt factory new models exclusively for the US market might be more possible. There is a video on YouTube of Zach shooting the only 10mm, which I THINK is on display at CZ-USA.
CZ has not eliminated the "bread and butter" CZ pistols, as the CZ-75 B, BD and Omega are still available, as well as the PCR, P-01, and steel frame Compact. The discontinuing of the 527/550 series was not a happy making time for me either, but we haven't seen what they plan on doing with the 600 series, especially with that hiccup with the switch barrel. I have to think they will expand the line once the kinks are worked out, and we might see a return of the micro centerfires. Also, the 600 series covers from 5.56mm/.223 up to 300 WinMag and 6.5 Creedmore and others. I hope it will be everything we liked about the 550 and the 527 melded together - I want a 600 Trail in 223 and a 600 Lux in 308.