The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => CZ Gunsmithing => Topic started by: barrelproofdrinker88 on October 16, 2022, 09:13:19 AM
-
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221016/e33a15f605ac9dfe0b18fc59874f765e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221016/99f828c90188b07d3c8be74e02da95ad.jpg)
Before and after paint stripping, phosphate removal and sanding to 320 grit
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
You're off to a great start! Looking forward to seeing the finished product. I just finished rust bluing a surplus Hi Power yesterday, so I sympathize with how your fingers feel.
-
OP, glad to see your project getting started.
We used to have more of that going on here. Not sure why it dropped off like it did. Probably lost some of the members who made a hobby of it and maybe the supply of used/surplus CZ's coming into the states has dropped off.
It was always neat to see how people tackled a problem and how their solutions worked out. Fun to learn/see what others would do to get something fixed - and nice to see a hard used/not taken care of pistol taken care off and fixed up again.
-
It’s been fun, I think this is my sixth one. Too bad surplus prices are so high, I think it discourages a lot of folks, myself included - got nothing else lined up after this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Sadly, the days of cheap surplus CZs, or any firearm for that matter, are long gone. It wasn't that long ago that I could have my choice out of a crate of Mosins for $109.00. I paid $200 otd for my first 75 compact six years ago, which made it worth it to restore and upgrade it. This new reality is why I've broadened my horizons when it come to project guns. I love CZs, but there's other fun toys out there too.
-
I guess it would make more sense if you had a specific upgrade project in mind and buying a used CZ was cheaper than buying a new one and replacing new parts and getting a new pistol refinished.
-
Round 1 after rusting, then boil/card. For the rust, I diluted Laurel mountain solution about 1:1 with distilled water.
The uneven rusting you can see on the slide will go away with further rounds, I’ve learned not to worry about that.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221022/2b1c061a5410627be7cbd63433410bf2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221022/aa7eef2cc2696e564d1f957908e78e9c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221022/83504025e4e2590b2dfdf4b79a08553b.jpg)
-
How deep is that importer mark, id remove that real quick.
The problem with projects like this is the price of surplus CZ pistols is darn near the price of new ones.
-
Wasn’t planning on testing how deep it goes, if it were on the slide or somewhere more visible I might.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
That's a great first cycle right there. I don't have the patience for the Laurel Mtn. anymore, so I use Mark Lee's express solution. The end result is all that really matters.
I've looked at two Massada pistols as potential projects but, at around $600 for either one, the cost was just too prohibitive. Cool guns though.
-
Yeah there’s a few on GB right now including a Massada semicompact, but as you said, cost is prohibitive for a side project gun.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
After 4 cycles
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221025/85c194dd7de4ea34edaf040b8cc424fd.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Looking good. What is your reasoning for diluting the rust solution?
-
Nice. Shame I don't have the patience to do the bluing steps and the reason why I'm typically a matte hard chrome guy by others.
Love seeing these projects come together.
-
Looking good. What is your reasoning for diluting the rust solution?
I’ve had issues with light pitting sometimes especially on the slide flats. I’ve tried shorter rust times, limiting humidity, as well as diluting the solution. I’ve read elsewhere of people having issues with pitting with Laurel mountain and diluting it. With dilution, I haven’t noticed an issue with producing rust.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
6 cycles, minimal rust but usually go 10, when what looks to be rust (the copper from solution) doesn’t convert to black after boil.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221027/024de9d81f7d300fde967b7277907c1a.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Your Compact Massada looks awesome! I didn't even know that CZ made the Massada in a Compact. I've only seen the Semi-Compact versions. In fact, I just purchased an SC Massada, which I'm very excited about. I'm looking forward to seeing how this restoration project turns out! Thank you for sharing your journey with us!
-
I just got a Massada SC as well. Won the surplus lottery as mine looks like it was never fired! Clean as a whistle inside with not a spec of carbon. Some slight wear on the sharp edges but not even typical holster wear. Looked almost factory fresh. Kept looking for one at a fair price, bid on 2 but others wanted more than me and almost gave up. I saw a couple compact Massadas on GB and was thinking about going for one then this one popped up and I got it for the opening bid.
https://imgur.com/a/9BqfK0c
-
Nice!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Finally finished up. Hammer spring seems quite heavy despite a 13 pound CGW spring. Will have to compare spring length in compact vs full size.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221203/b646a3d1f762d1abc3c40980022aa700.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
That looks great! Nice work!
-
Beautiful work! It looks better than it did when it left the factory!
-
Pretty.
Question: I've read here several times that one reason the factory doesn't make a lot of blued pistols is the frames are cast and there are imperfections in many of them that blueing won't cover but the polycoat hides.
Did you see any pits/dark spots in the frame metal on this one?
And, trigger pull? Could it just be a geometry thing with the way the parts fit together causing it to take more force to move the sear/hammer in position to fire? Like the camming issue seen with some of the pistols where even though it's cocked pulling the trigger far/hard enough to fire the gun results in the hammer moving backwards against the hammer spring before releasing/firing?
-
Pretty.
Question: I've read here several times that one reason the factory doesn't make a lot of blued pistols is the frames are cast and there are imperfections in many of them that blueing won't cover but the polycoat hides.
Did you see any pits/dark spots in the frame metal on this one?
And, trigger pull? Could it just be a geometry thing with the way the parts fit together causing it to take more force to move the sear/hammer in position to fire? Like the camming issue seen with some of the pistols where even though it's cocked pulling the trigger far/hard enough to fire the gun results in the hammer moving backwards against the hammer spring before releasing/firing?
I think it’s luck of the draw, nothing terrible usually, there is usually a matte texture to the back strap of grip and muzzle of slide. Requires some sanding to smooth. Also the rear curved part of the frame where the hammer pin goes in sometimes has a coarse line, crease in the metal that takes a lot of sanding to smooth out.
This Massada had the back strap texture, and two dark spots without pitting that actually disappeared during bluing. One small pit developed on the side of the frame that was barely noticeable but I sanded it down and reblued.
Some of these older frames have had metal repairs from the factory from defect in the casting and you can see them from the inside of the frame before stripping. One example is on GB now which is a nice preB with enamel finish but there are spots where the enamel has peeled off there the repairs were done. I think that is the case in this photo. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221203/efb1519509ac232a8f3c3635adbebbc2.jpg)
Those are not going to do well with a bluing since the metal composition is different and I think will show.
For the trigger pull, I couldn’t resist the deals lately and got a p-01 and the DA pull on that is much less than on the Massada. Massada is consistently heavy in DA prior to full hammer cock so it’s not a sear engagement and SA is smooth and easy.
I don’t think it’s a geometry issue, just wondering if it is because I am using a full size hammer spring in a compact, but that’s the only one offered. I could try to swap to the original spring but it was so hard to get the mag brake in I don’t want to have to do it again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I took the mag brake out of my Pre B CZ85, for sure. Maybe out of my CZ75 Compact (not sure).
I know people say the also keep dirt/dust out of the hammer spring/strut area and probably they are correct - but I noticed my P07 and P09's didn't have a cover over the hammer spring and strut so I figured my metal framed guns would survive just fine without the brake, too.
When I was redoing the Pre B CZ85 I noticed a defect in the bottom of the frame. Had a couple spots that looked like internal rust. Rust coming out of the center of the frame/mag. well wall right on the bottom. Removed some metal and they were still there, couldn't worry about it and had it cerakoted.
Different from one gun to another, as you said.
-
I took the mag brake out of my Pre B CZ85, for sure. Maybe out of my CZ75 Compact (not sure).
I know people say the also keep dirt/dust out of the hammer spring/strut area and probably they are correct - but I noticed my P07 and P09's didn't have a cover over the hammer spring and strut so I figured my metal framed guns would survive just fine without the brake, too.
When I was redoing the Pre B CZ85 I noticed a defect in the bottom of the frame. Had a couple spots that looked like internal rust. Rust coming out of the center of the frame/mag. well wall right on the bottom. Removed some metal and they were still there, couldn't worry about it and had it cerakoted.
Different from one gun to another, as you said.
What hammer spring do you run in your compact?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Factory hammer springs in most everything.
I run safeties and cocked and locked, so I almost never pull the trigger double action.
The only Compact I've carried shot much has one of the CZ spur hammers in it and those (I've bought/used two) are awesome. Like those aftermarket competition hammers. Adding that spur hammer gave me a 3 lb. trigger pull so crisp your mind and finger tell you the trigger gauge is telling you a lie when it shows 3 lbs. Put one on a CZ75B .40 and got the same results. Makes them look more like a Pre B model.
I've read, here, that the lighter hammer springs are better for double action but don't really have much effect on single action trigger pull.
-
Factory hammer springs in most everything.
I run safeties and cocked and locked, so I almost never pull the trigger double action.
The only Compact I've carried shot much has one of the CZ spur hammers in it and those (I've bought/used two) are awesome. Like those aftermarket competition hammers. Adding that spur hammer gave me a 3 lb. trigger pull so crisp your mind and finger tell you the trigger gauge is telling you a lie when it shows 3 lbs. Put one on a CZ75B .40 and got the same results. Makes them look more like a Pre B model.
I've read, here, that the lighter hammer springs are better for double action but don't really have much effect on single action trigger pull.
Thanks. Yes SA is crisp and light. DA heavy, but it may just be what it is. I’m used to a full size frame and those are probably 6 pounds. Will measure at some point.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I'd be surprised if any of mine (plastic, aluminum or steel) are under 8 lbs. I know the ones I remember measuring (lightest) were just over 8 lbs. You usually have to do some polishing (maybe a lot of polishing) and go to lighter springs, new firing pin, etc. to get a DA trigger pull to really lighten up.
Good luck with it.
-
Before and after paint stripping, phosphate removal and sanding to 320 grit
What do you recommend for paint stripping and phosphate removal? I have a Massada SC and I want to try this.
Thanks!
-
Before and after paint stripping, phosphate removal and sanding to 320 grit
What do you recommend for paint stripping and phosphate removal? I have a Massada SC and I want to try this.
Thanks!
I'm not sure what BPD uses, but I've found Jasco to be the best stripper (even though it might take a week or more) and Evaporust for the phosphate removal.
-
What do you recommend for paint stripping and phosphate removal? I have a Massada SC and I want to try this.
Thanks!
Jasco paint and epoxy remover, enough to submerge the whole thing for a week or two. See photo after two weeks. Very caustic stuff, I used a p100 mask, eye protection, and heavy gloves, avoid any contact with skin. Cheap dollar store brass or steel brush to work off the paint after soaking. Sometimes needs a few extra days of soaking after initial paint removal, to get the rest off. Do it all outside or in ventilated open garage.
Phosphate I soak in Evaporust, make sure completely submerged. 000 or 0000 steel wool to wipe off the layer after an hour or three.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230312/41c99ce80549b21bcf46f140cd7cfa9e.jpg)
-
Great! Thanks for the tips. Which parts are painted (and need paint stripper) and which parts are phosphated? And for the phosphated parts, how long do you need to let them soak?
-
The phosphated layer is under the paint. The frame and slide are painted, maybe the front sight is too.
If you want to reblue it you’ll need to remove the phosphated layer. The controls and hammer you can either leave with their factory bluing or remove with Evaporust easily (removes phosphate/bluing).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Thank you for the tips! This project is now on my "to do" list! (along with way too many other projects...) ;D