The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ SP-01 and variants => Topic started by: nick779 on November 05, 2022, 09:07:46 PM
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Hi guys. Had no idea where to post this.
I’m looking for a gun that will almost always come to the range with me. I want something fast, accurate, optic ready, around 40oz and relatively reliable with oil and regular cleaning. Budget is around $2500
I currently have an CGW SP-01 with 5 mags if that factors in any way.
Here are the options I’ve seriously looked into.
* Bull accu SP-01/shadow from CZC with optic milling
* TS2 (I have leads on one for $1100) and the CZC frame optic mount. This is really heavy by my standards.
* Try a 2011 and get a Staccato P (my first 1911/2011)
Any opinions?
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I have a S2 OR. If I'm honest, the factory DA/SA trigger is good but not amazing. For $2500, I'd personally get a TS2 Green for the SAO trigger, then add an optics mount and Trijicon SRO.
Though I could see many recommending a 2011 as well. Both are good options.
I know I'm rambling, but I think for a range toy SAO triggers are the best. I have one on my Volquartsen and it's in another league compared to the DA/SA triggers I've experienced.
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For a toy, Tac Sport. The Tac Sports are different animals from the CZ 75 variants. Compared to even a well tuned SP-01, my original TS in factory configuration feels like cheating.
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Heh, figured I wouldn't get many votes for the Staccato on a CZ forum. I have a Ruger Mark 4 22/45 with a Volq Accurizing kit. It's pretty nuts how crisp and clean that trigger is, gun is quite accurate too.
The bull shadow only caught my eye because it's a similar weight configuration to a 2011 with the bull barrel, but also at the same if not higher price.
The TS2 Blue and drill/tap for the CZC mount would definitely be the cheapest option. But the heaviest. I wouldn't be competing with it anyway so the weight probably wouldn't matter.
Part of me just wants to try a 2011, but I hate to buy without being able to even hold one. I at least know I like steel CZ grips
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I've always avoided 2011s due to horror stories about reliability issues. Don't get me wrong, there are many fantastic 2011s out there. However I've found steel CZs to be very reliable. Last thing you want in a range toy is a finicky gun that spoils the fun.
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Last thing you want in a range toy is a finicky gun that spoils the fun.
^^ This ! ^^
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I would vote for the TS2 in Racing Green. However, I would not overlook the Tanfoglio Defiant Limited Master which is also a SAO.
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I've always avoided 2011s due to horror stories about reliability issues. Don't get me wrong, there are many fantastic 2011s out there. However I've found steel CZs to be very reliable. Last thing you want in a range toy is a finicky gun that spoils the fun.
I think that's the biggest hurdle for me. I want to love them and lusted over an Atlas for a few years, but I will not spend that much anytime soon on a toy I have no intention of competing with. (Right now) The Staccato was that middle ground "budget" 2011 but I don't think I want to go down that path right now.
A TSO or TS2 RG are both in my sights. I think that's going to be my top pick if I can find one as it should be pretty dang reliable. CZC has an optic mount that should drop right in too.
EDIT: I might just stick with the TS2 since I can get it for around $1100 or less. The extra $500+ for a RG or TSO is literally the price of an optic. Only downside is that the frame needs to be drilled for the frame optic mount. I can't imagine CZC charges much for that, but I could be totally wrong.
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I'll start with the Bull Shadow on the SP01 frame. I have a BS on a 75b frame and it's not only heavy but it's nose heavy. That's good for follow up shots but can take a toll on the wrist after a bit of shooting. Honestly I'll be selling mine in the near future. If you like the SP01 and it fits your hand look into putting a TS upper on it I have a 75b SA in this configuration and love shooting it as does a friend who is into CZs.
As for the TS2 I have the first one and if the greens trigger is the same you won't like it. It has a lot of creep and I changed mine out with a CGW hammer and enjoy shooting it more now. My TS2 also weighs 48oz and the green is 49oz which for a range toy is a bit heavy.
If your thinking about a Staccato for the range I would go for the XL not only is it longer it only weighs 38oz. I have a XL Tuxedo and love shooting it. I have run roughly 2K through it since I've owned it and have had no problems with it and shoot it very well for a 65 year old poor sight guy.
Right now I am currently setting up a SP01 frame I just got with a CTS upper and as soon as the upper comes back from refinish I will be testing it out but I can tell you just by fitting it it's going to be a joy to shoot like my 75 SA/TS I have.
In order I would pick the Staccato first the SP01 with CTS upper second and the TS2 last as an all the time range toy.
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The TS2 I should at least be able to handle at the shop. I’ll check out the trigger
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2011 hands down. Shoot one before you decide against it.
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well.. Ive got TSOs, Bull Shadow, SP01, CTS, S2 I used for uspsa for a few years - and all are amazing reliable 9mm/40sw guns... and enjoying retirement in my safe collecting dust.
IMO a hand fitted well balanced 2011 where the grip geometry and trigger reach fits you is in a different league... and there is a world of companies that makes parts to fit your specific tastes. Its like a nice fitted suit vs something off the rack.
Yes, it can get spendy, yes there can be pain in getting one dialed in, and yes you need to keep them clean and lubed.. and yes you have to keep the mags/mag springs in shape.. and yes, you will need a gun smith or two for fitting parts, but definitely worth it if you shoot and enjoy nice things.
I shoot uspsa pretty much every weekend and travel around doing it. I see lots of shadow 2s in carry optics up through GMs.. a few TSOs in the C and B classes. not so much above B class - IMO either one is a great gun getting into USPSA/IPSC - and great range toys.
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I think all the guns the OP listed are good options. And given his intended use as a range toy, no real reason to match the gun/caliber up with a “division” in gun games.
I shot 2011s for quite a few years. Started with a STI Eagle in .40SW for Limited division (my first real “race gun”) then around 2011-2012 had a 6” 2011 custom built by a local gunsmith. Raced that gun in Limited for a number of years. Great gun, but I second the comments about 2011s (and 1911’s) being a little finicky and you either need access to a good gunsmith or learn to maintain them yourself. Over the years I broke a number of parts ranging from barrel links to sights to thumb safeties, had to stay on top of cleaning my mags after every time they hit the ground, keep the gun itslef clean and well lubed. But man they are sweet guns to shoot. I also have a 2011 chambered in 9mm for 3-gun, IDPA and Steel Challenge.
Sometime around 2015 I switched divisions and shot Production with a SP-01 Shadow tuned by CZC. That led way to the Shadow 2 when they came out, and currently the Shadow 2 with SRO optic are the guns I shoot in Carry Optics division. Of all my game guns, the CZs are the guns I consistent shoot the best and have had the least headaches with. They just flat out run and run. Lube frequently, but not finicky about cleaning, including the mags. Other than replacing springs routinely, I don’t think I’ve ever had a part break on me during a match.
I’ve lusted over the Bull Shadow from CZC ever since they came out. I just never took the plunge. Maybe one of these years I’ll treat myself to a Bull Shadow upper for one of my lowers…. So for me that would be the top choice, but that’s just me. I did get a chance to handle and fire a TS2, nice gun, but being SAO and 9mm there really isn’t a division that gun fits into and with my aging eyesight I can’t see irons very well anymore so shooting Limited division with a TS2 even chambered in .40SW is kinda out for me. But given the OPs intended use for this gun I would say give the TS2 a look. A heavy gun chambered in 9mm are a hoot to shoot. Plus I’m sure with the right springs and hammer/sear combo it can be made to shoot as good as the best tuned 2011.
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This whole conversation is just making me want all of them at some point.
I'm really tempted by the deal on the TS2s, but I hesitate for some reason... Probably because I know I want a green despite the price. The pricing on Staccato is stagnant so I'm not missing anything by waiting. The TS2 however may not hit this price for a long time.
$1050 for the TS2 and I could probably recoup that if I change my mind. Otherwise, adding an optic isn't much more expensive.
I still want an optic on my SP-01, but I lose nothing by waiting.
I'm going to go handle a TS2 and see if I like the grip and go from there.
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The TS2 is a little beefier in the grip than the Shadow 2, and the Shadow 2 has a little bigger girth than the SP-01 Shadow. But the ergos are pure CZ, which is to say if you like the SP-01 or the Shadow 2 the TS2 line is going to feel very familiar, albeit a little bigger. But if that is an issue, pretty sure you can get slim grips to reduce the circumference of the grip (or go the other direction if you have big hands).
I don’t recall the weight, but it felt similar to a Shadow 2 (@ 47 oz) and may be a tad heavier. But it balances well. Low bore axis, which if you’re a CZ fan you’ll appreciate.
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I don't mean to go sideways in this thread, but Redhemi, is the CTS upper a drop in for the SP01 frame or which aspect needs alteration?
OP,I think you got some real good insights gathered here!
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I've got an SP01 fully Cajunized (and re-polished by me), an S2 OR I've done minimal work on, a well worn in TSO, a TS2 green with a milled slide but not much else done to it (they all have SROs) and a Staccato P with a DPP. The best value by far is a new or used TSO. Amazing gun at a reasonable price point, especially used. My favorite of the bunch has turned out to be the milled TS2 Green. The close second is the TSO. I shoot the TS2 just slightly better most days. As someone pointed out, TS models are different beasts and just wonderful. I like all my CZs better than the Staccato. IMHO, the Staccato P is over priced for what it is and not a good value compared to everything from an upgraded SP01 to the TS2. The trigger, especially, on my Staccato P is not worthy of a $2500, 1911 based gun even tho it's on the lighter side for Staccato Ps at about 2.5 pounds. It's just average - not very crisp. Fit and finish is good but I can say the same for my CZs, especially the TSO and TS2 (OK, the finish on the Staccato seems more robust). Reliability has been good after I sent it back to Staccato to have some teething pains fixed. I shoot my CZs better but a buddy of mine shoots the Staccato better so we'll call accuracy out to at least 50-75 ft about equal.
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I've got an SP01 fully Cajunized (and re-polished by me), an S2 OR I've done minimal work on, a well worn in TSO, a TS2 green with a milled slide but not much else done to it (they all have SROs) and a Staccato P with a DPP. The best value by far is a new or used TSO. Amazing gun at a reasonable price point, especially used. My favorite of the bunch has turned out to be the milled TS2 Green. The close second is the TSO. I shoot the TS2 just slightly better most days. As someone pointed out, TS models are different beasts and just wonderful. I like all my CZs better than the Staccato. IMHO, the Staccato P is over priced for what it is and not a good value compared to everything from an upgraded SP01 to the TS2.
Good to know. I'm still waiting to get hands on a few of these, but not really in any sort of rush. I decided to get my SP-01 milled & DLC coated, then go from there. Maybe pick up some steel targets to take to the range with me.
I'm leaning towards a TS2 RG with the CZC gas pedal optic mount when I go down that road. Initially I thought about a milled S2 with a SAO conversion, but that's nearing the same price as a TS2 RG and I'd rather have a TSO or TS2 RG.
I do at some point want to at least handle a 2011, but I'm not sold on all of the fine tuning they may or man not require. I clean all of my guns every 250-500 rounds/every range trip as I have time so maintenance isn't a problem. I just don't want to troubleshoot/fine tune at the range.
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I've got an SP01 fully Cajunized (and re-polished by me), an S2 OR I've done minimal work on, a well worn in TSO, a TS2 green with a milled slide but not much else done to it (they all have SROs) and a Staccato P with a DPP. The best value by far is a new or used TSO. Amazing gun at a reasonable price point, especially used. My favorite of the bunch has turned out to be the milled TS2 Green. The close second is the TSO. I shoot the TS2 just slightly better most days. As someone pointed out, TS models are different beasts and just wonderful. I like all my CZs better than the Staccato. IMHO, the Staccato P is over priced for what it is and not a good value compared to everything from an upgraded SP01 to the TS2.
Good to know. I'm still waiting to get hands on a few of these, but not really in any sort of rush. I decided to get my SP-01 milled & DLC coated, then go from there. Maybe pick up some steel targets to take to the range with me.
I'm leaning towards a TS2 RG with the CZC gas pedal optic mount when I go down that road. Initially I thought about a milled S2 with a SAO conversion, but that's nearing the same price as a TS2 RG and I'd rather have a TSO or TS2 RG.
I do at some point want to at least handle a 2011, but I'm not sold on all of the fine tuning they may or man not require. I clean all of my guns every 250-500 rounds/every range trip as I have time so maintenance isn't a problem. I just don't want to troubleshoot/fine tune at the range.
You'll love the TS2 green with frame mounted optic! My TSO has a frame mounted optic. It's so much fun. Perfect range toy. I got impatient and found a TS2 green for a great price before the frame mounts were available, that's why mine is milled. I'm seriously considering buying another so I can have one that's got a frame mounted optic as well (unless we can get the TS2 bronze here before I go nuts and order a 2nd TS2 green or I can find a TS2 slide/barrel combo).
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SEAK, seeing that you have both a TSO and the TS2 Green, here is a question. As you know the TSO inside the slide is machined to a bright silver finish as with all the Oranges. Does the TS2 Green also have this type of machining? Also is the TS2 Green slide fit as tight as the TSO slide to frame?
I have a TSO and I just love the gun and shoot it far better than any other gun that I own and that includes several $$$$ 1911s. Trying to decide if the TS2 Green would be a step up for me above the TSO.