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CZ LONG ARMS => CZ Center fire Rifles => Topic started by: mspears on January 13, 2003, 09:41:48 PM

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: mspears on January 13, 2003, 09:41:48 PM

This past weekend I decided to give my CZ 527 American .223 a try as a deer rifle.  Before I had an opportunity to try the rifle on a deer I encountered a 125lb. wild hog.  Concerned about trying to take a wild hot with a .223 I waited until I had a clean head shot.  At 85 yards the .223 dropped the hog in its tracks!  After much experimenting with factory loads and numerous hand loads I found the 60 grain Nosler Partition loaded with 25.5 grains of Reloader 15 produces a muzzle velocity of approximately 3,200 fps  and 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 100 yards.  Needless to say I was very pleased with the performance of the .223.  From the ballistics charts I have seen it looks like the .223, with a premium bullet like the 60 grain Nosler Partition, can be a very effective deer rifle out to about 150 yards.  I am interested in hearing from any other hunters who have used the .223 for a deer or hog rifle.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: jjilco on January 14, 2003, 07:14:01 PM

I know I would not hunt deer with 223. were i live its mostly mule deer, and elk. I know I would hate to see a a wounded
 animal lost from the use of to small a caliber, in colorado
 the smallest leagal caliber is 6mm, i believe one would be 243Win, just my position I would not use a bullet under 140gr
 for any deer size animal
 but I do not know what is legal in your state
 jjilco

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: mspears on January 14, 2003, 08:02:37 PM

jjilco, I am certainly not advocating using a .223 on mule deer or elk or for that matter any dangerous game animal.  However, here in Florida our deer average 100 to 125 pounds and any centerfire caliber is legal for hunting deer here, even a 22 Hornet.  I also admit most .223 factory loads, which are designed for varmint hunting, are not suitable for deer and you must use a bullet that mushrooms and penetrates rather than a fragmenting varmint bullet.  Lastly, you must work within the limits of the caliber which is approximately 150 yards and not take dumb shots.  I have seen as many or more hunters loose animals shot with high caliber rifles that shot right through the animal without striking bones or vital organs. A well placed shot with a 60 to 90 grain bullet will result in a cleaner and more humane kill than a poorly placed shot with a 200 grain bullet.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: jjilco on January 14, 2003, 08:44:29 PM

well if it is legal then go with it. I dont know what a viet vet
 would tell you about the 223, the problem with the 22caliber
  bullet can be deflected by a grain of grass, thats the problem the had in the war. and the eneme had a larger heaver bullet that was not distracted as easely, but then I guess Iam like all gun nuts, I have my own oppinion
  good hunting anyway
 jjilco

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: CZ75ID on January 15, 2003, 06:22:33 PM

Hi, i know of people who have killed deer(coastal)
with .223 HPs.  I wanted a gun that i could use
for Whitetails..so i opted for the 7.62 x 39.

Guns & AmMo's article on the cartridge shows good promise for 150 grain handloads.

Anyone seen any WOLF 150s?

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: Dragon-Bob on January 15, 2003, 09:37:39 PM

I Bought two cases of the Wolf 122 Hollow point. Here's a link for their 154.

www.cheaperthandirt.com/c...PJREKEBK49 (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?dept%5Fid=20224&sku=AMM%2D630&imgid=&mscssid=2L7SWRS004B48J32T3SEHBPJREKEBK49)

Dragon Bob

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: bullsi1911 on January 16, 2003, 10:07:12 PM

A younger brother of a friend of mine shot a wild russian boar in the center of the head with a Savage 99 in .243... The 100 grain bullet bounced off the hogs thick skull.  The pig charged him, and Richard cranked another round into the pigs head, and that one was also deflected by the heavy bone, skinning half the forehead and leaving one ear flapping.... with the pig at 30 yards from him, he snaked a lucky shot between the heavy sternum and shoulder where the bullet fragmented and jellied the heart and a piece of shrapnel severed the spine and piled the hog up about 20 yards from him.  

When we showed up about 4 minutes later after hearing the rapid shots we found Richard shaking, with his last round in the chamber, still holding the dead pig at gunpoint.  I do NOT recommend anything less then .30 caliber for anyone that might come across hogs in the woods.  Them things take lots of killing.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: mspears on January 17, 2003, 05:53:44 AM

Bullsi191, obviously I was not there to witness your friends younger brother's experience but I find it incredible to believe that you would believe a 100 grain .243 round would bounce off a hogs head.  Come on.  I have killed many hogs with rifles with rilfes and shot guns that produce less energy than a .243 with a 100 grain bullet.  Sounds to me like the lad missed the hog!

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: ZKK602 on January 18, 2003, 08:05:17 PM

I used to hunt down at Oakey Woods south of Macon.  In the '30s, some fool imported 20 pairs of genuine Russian and turned them loose.  They have interbred with feral hogs and the progeny have turned out pretty nasty.  Anyway, I was trying to 'grunt' a buck in towards my stand (first time I ever tried that technique) and got some answering grunts, unfortunately, it wasn't a buck, but one big, hairy, mean, and mad male hog, which had many of the features of a Russian.  Since it was close to the end of shooting light, and thinking that with the hog around, there would be no deer, I put the crosshairs on his chest where I thought the heart would be and squeezed the trigger.  The hog staggered, but kept coming at me.  So I put another one in his chest.  This one dropped him, but when I got to him, he was still alive.

I was shooting a 30-06 with 165 Ballistic Tips.  When we dressd him (and, boy!, did he stink!), we found then first bullet flattened against what seemed to be a layer of gristle about an inch under the skin.  The second bullet had broken up, and part of it went about halfway into the heart.  These are bullets that I have had go completely through the chest cavity of a full grown whitetail at 150 yards, expanding to about 2 diameters, from what I can tell.

So, I think that these hogs can be very, very tough.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: Fred Flinstone on January 18, 2003, 08:52:43 PM

I went hunting on a private reserve which had wild boars, these were only allowed to be hunted with a 12 gauge shotgun(houses were pretty close). After seeing a few of these getting hit in the head, heart, etc. and still going on my perception changed.

The owner tried to pure breed them by selecting the heaviest older male, the owner almost got disembowled by one of these big boars. He was fairly well acquainted with these animals for more than 10-15 years.

Never under-estimate one of these animals, very tenacious.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: xX-IKO-Xx on January 13, 2004, 01:24:45 AM

[blquote] obviously I was not there to witness your friends younger brother's experience but I find it incredible to believe that you would believe a 100 grain .243 round would bounce off a hogs head. Come on. I have killed many hogs with rifles with rilfes and shot guns that produce less energy than a .243 with a 100 grain bullet. Sounds to me like the lad missed the hog! [/blquote]


I hunt in Dublin south of macon..I have killed droves of hogs in my time..Not once have a ever had a heart pounding experience you guns talk of. Sure i have had them run at me but usually its not to come and cut you up..9 out 10 its cause thats the way they were going to run anyway.. I have taken a 30-06spr. loaded with Cor Lokts and Killed 2 hogs with one shot. Each hog weighed around 60-70lbs. They both dropped one like a rock then the other ten feet away after some squealing. I have shot the in the heads with .243 and i will tell you. THat thing zipped right through the skull of the boar hog. Down like a ton of bricks.
My favorite occasion was when i was walking to my ladder stand in a cornfield at dawn. I was 14 and had a Rem 742 in .30-06. Walking up i noticed shadows, low to the ground milling 75 yards away. They were pigs and i got excited. Stalked right up with in 30 yards and picked my targets..Down the first, they scatter and i got 5 out of 5 with two witness, father and his best friend watching. They were astonished. 4-H shotgun team had paid off. Ammo used Rem. BT 165 grn. Avg weight was 50lbs. The only time i could see a boar hog chargin you is if you shoot at it with a 22lr broadside.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: Fred Flinstone on January 15, 2004, 04:59:44 AM

It seems that your pigs are mighty small, wild boar in the range of 150-220 are medium sized boars, heavy weights can go as high as 300some pounds with a mind of their own. Even the 150 pounders are not to be taking lightly.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: Frank in Montana on January 18, 2004, 06:19:53 PM

Mspears,

   You are at least using probably THE best bullet available for what your trying to do. They say that experience is the best teacher. Sometimes failures and losses can be tough. Let me give you some advice that I have learned from forty years of hunting.

  The .22 centerfires are NOT adequate deer/antelope rounds. Given good bullet choice like the  60 gr partitions or X bullets, you WILL kill deer ,especially smaller deer most of the time. BUT you will eventually have a bullet failure and wound your animal. I have seen this time and time again on western muleys and our small antelope. I have done it myself for years UNTIL I lost a decent buck when a bullet exploded on his shoulder. Luckily he was taken by another hunter so he was not lost. Also have seen SEVERAL hi vel .224's blow up on the shoulder joint on antelope.

  One can surely headshoot deer with a .224" and kill them like the hammer of Thor or a bolt of lightning. But a small target, on the end of the ever moving head? NOT a good choice. I have also seen several deer,elk and antelope that died lingering deaths of starvation and dehydration after having their lower jaws shot off by "head shooters".

   So , heart/lung shots are your best choice. A big target , pop the lungs and you have venison. Will a .224" reliably give you an exit wound? Generally not. They DO give spectacular results when the bullet explodes in the lungs though.

  A .243" is a bit better starting point for deer. As hunters we owe our quarry as quick and as SURE a death possible. Continue to use the .224's for deer and you WILL have a failure.  You can take that to the Bank.

FN in MT

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: milanuk on January 28, 2004, 07:02:01 PM

Last time I lived/hunted in Nebraska, couple years ago, .224 was the minimum caliber allowed for big game, and IIRC, 1000ft-lb of energy required at 100yds.  A .223 Rem just squeaks by that.

I don't know too many people who used .223's, but I knew more than a few that swore by .22-250 or .220 Swift.  Part of that was these people were farmers and ranchers, and 99% of their shooting thru the year was at coyotes, prairie dogs, etc.  In our area, you had mule deer and white tail about a mile or two apart, and not small.  Put in the right place, I think a .223 could do the job.  I know a .220 Swift did

Monte

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: Missionery on February 20, 2004, 08:06:50 PM

I read that Roy Weatherby once dropped a large bull elephant with his .300 Mag, ONE SHOT! These things are possible. And they do happen quite often! BUT!!! And we Americans are the worst! Listen to EXPERIENCE!  Just because you did it once and it worked fine, does not mean that it is fine. You may have done it more than once. But that don't make it right. I've learned to listen to experience. I had a close call that almost cost me my life. I learned very quickly to listen to the professional hunters. (Not only in Africa, a PH is a PH). A Winchester M94 .30-30 has dropped plenty of Black Bear. And if your shooting 200-300lbs bear it works, usually. But if your gonna hunt Black Bear, go prepared to hunt the 400 lbs and up. It was getting late, the sights weren't nice and clear. Distance about 40yds. But I thought I had a goodsight picture. I fired and ended up with very PO'd 500+lbs bear. I was shooting 170gr CoreLokts. I aimed centerline of his body for my second shot. He fell like a ton of bricks when that bullet busted his spine, at 20 ft away. I was seventeen then. Now I hunt Black Bear with a .300wm, and a .44RM 265gr SP for back-up. I won't hunt hogs with anything smaller than a .30 cal. rifle. Though I have hunted with my .44 RM, but we'll hunt in pairs. Back-up is a .30 Rifle minimum. A lot of the outfitters in california require you to bring a .30 or better, if your pig hunting. They are tough animals. Believe it! And just because the law says you are allowed to hunt hog or bear "with a center-fire rifle" without a caliber or cartridge minimum, does not make it the right or fine thing to do. Just remember. Those who wrote that law were not Professional Hunters. Hunting is just as enjoyable using the proper caliber and weapons, with less risk of wounded animals or hunters. Have Fun.

Title: .223 on large game
Post by: ranburr on February 28, 2004, 08:54:48 PM

I have known a lot of people who have harvested TX whitetails with the .223.  And it is fine for feral hogs, Russian boars are a different story.  The previous post about Russian boars are accurate and then some.  These animals are very large and the way that they are built, makes them better protected and stronger than animals twice their size.  We quite often find old bullets (even .30 caliber) gristled over in Russian boars that we kill.

ranburr