The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: Joe L on August 15, 2023, 10:51:01 AM
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I have an ex-military friend who wants a carry gun similar in function but not weight to his Beretta 92. I don't know anything about Beretta's, but a little research produced some positive comments about the PX4 Storm. I have one old friend who has one, and i believe I even shot it once many years ago. What I remember from that was that the DA trigger pull was double digit.
The rotating barrel and lugged lock up caught my interest from an accuracy standpoint, so much that I thought a little more investigation was warranted. So, anyone have any comments about the PX4?
Joe L
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I bought one new in the early 2010’s and liked it. I wasn’t into guns as much then as I am now so I didn’t appreciate it as much. The PX4 Storm and Ruger P95 are two pistols I wish I would’ve kept. Both somewhat ugly but extremely reliable. If you can find one at a decent price it would be worth picking up, imo. They are reasonably easy to repair, and I believe parts are still readily available, IF you ever need any.
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I have heard that the Beretta PX4 is an excellent DA / SA pistol — Langdon Tactical apparently swears by them and provides a number of custom upgrades to that platform.
However, IMO, it is one of the goofiest looking handguns around, almost as goofy as the HK VP70 (which is so goofy looking that it’s actually cool, despite having a staple gun-like trigger). But the PX4 is just moderately goofy-looking, which is not cool enough, IMO.
Some people venerate the old HK P7 “cock squeezer” but they are extremely goofy-looking, about on par with a Glock as far as general fugliness. But not quite fugly enough to be “cool” like the VP70.
My gun’s gotta look sexy!!! That’s why I’m currently looking at the “John Wick” HK P30. Chicks dig ‘em!
But whoever’s in charge of aesthetics in the plastique gun department at Beretta is more than a little bit off… they must have got him from the styling department at Daihatsu…The PX4, the ARX rifle and the CX4 PCC all look like they came off the set of the original Star Trek…😒
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Thanks, gentlemen. My friend is probably more interested in operation similar to his 92 than looks. I want him to get the PX4 because I am interested in seeing how the barrel lock up design works. :)
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I think the lockup is identical to the Grand Power handguns. I had a Grand Power Xcalibur that never had a problem and was very accurate.
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they are on my list to grab if found at the right price/time. they are a little large for CCW for me but would make a great addition to the range gun line up.
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Great pistol for sure. Tell him to look to Langdon Tactical for either a custom pistol, or parts to customize one. A plus with the PX4 is Beretta supports it very well with OEM parts and mags easily had.
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they are on my list to grab if found at the right price/time. they are a little large for CCW for me but would make a great addition to the range gun line up.
Same here.
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I think the lockup is identical to the Grand Power handguns. I had a Grand Power Xcalibur that never had a problem and was very accurate.
No, they're actually quite different in practical implementation of the action. Both rotary, but that's about where it ends.
Thanks, gentlemen. My friend is probably more interested in operation similar to his 92 than looks. I want him to get the PX4 because I am interested in seeing how the barrel lock up design works. :)
Yes, manual of arms/safety use is similar, but that's about where it ends...
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I owned and carried a PX 4 compact for about three years. I found it to be a very fine pistol and never had a malfunction. I sold it only because, for me, the CZ P01 was a more natural pointer and I could consistently shoot tighter groups with the CZ. But to be clear, that was very personal. My brother (who trained extensively on a 92 FS and M9s) grouped tighter with the Beretta on a consistent basis.
I belive that a PX 4 should serve your friend well.
Cheers
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One of the most underrated hand guns that I ever used. With the "Trigger Job in a Bag", it is really smooth!
Mine is a 40 S&W.
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Thanks, everyone. I have passed your comments on to my friend, and he is looking for a PX4 to try/buy now. I am pretty sure I will get to see it and shoot it for myself next trip to New Mexico. He lives across the street and he might want to go to the range with me next visit.
Joe L
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I had a full sized PX4. It is a very good quality gun and a huge following of people. The grip was too bulky for me and did not naturally point. I traded it for a 92fs. Same thing. Great gun but too bulky. I have a 1911 that when I bring it up it is pointed at my target so I know they are out there. I swapped my Beretta for a Sig 320 compact and was a little better. But just didn't shoot it as good as I wanted. I ended up swapping for a CZ P01 omega. Now that one works for me as good as a 1911. It is a keeper. No more searching. I did also keep my Sig 365 for carry. It shoots good for me. There is a gun out there for everyone. You just have to find it. Whatever I get has to have a smooth trigger. No safety blades in the trigger. They make my finger sore. I do like a double/single trigger system Great for carry.
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Thanks, Ron. My friend is a big fellow, loves the fit of the 92, he just wanted something similar but smaller and lighter. The PX4 might be just fine for him. I told him to find one to try on for size before buying. To be honest, I'm kind of interested in one myself! Maybe I will get to shoot his, should he choose to buy one.
Joe
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You may find this to be of interest :)
https://youtu.be/9Q4M_a7S8-o
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fwiw,
i found the 9mm version in the Cougar, i guess Pre PX series and once i had a chance to play with it i got the 45 version. the 45 is a single stack. Its grip is fatter, but not so much you wonder why they didnt make a staggered mag. I got both LN. I guess the LAPD? used the 45 versions for a while and sold/dumped them.
I just go them because they are odd/unique. I wont say they can split the balls off a fly at 1 mile, but they will do the job.
If you can, go find a range to play with one and note they may have been "rode hard and put up wet". So just be aware of rentals.
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I had one that was given the LTT treatment and it was, hands down, the best DA/SA pistol I have ever owned. It is more underrated than the P-07, and that is already criminally underrated.
(https://i.imgur.com/pYFOfiQ.jpg)
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I have an ex-military friend who wants a carry gun similar in function but not weight to his Beretta 92. I don't know anything about Beretta's, but a little research produced some positive comments about the PX4 Storm. I have one old friend who has one, and i believe I even shot it once many years ago. What I remember from that was that the DA trigger pull was double digit.
The rotating barrel and lugged lock up caught my interest from an accuracy standpoint, so much that I thought a little more investigation was warranted. So, anyone have any comments about the PX4?
Joe L
Purchased a PX4 compact in July, and it is a great shooter. Low recoil, decent trigger out the box, and is a due everything pistol, imo.
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I had one that was given the LTT treatment and it was, hands down, the best DA/SA pistol I have ever owned. It is more underrated than the P-07, and that is already criminally underrated.
(https://i.imgur.com/pYFOfiQ.jpg)
Nice 8)
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I have a Stoeger Cougar 8000. The rotary barrel definitely reduces the recoil impulse.
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Thanks, everyone. I'll see my friend late this week to discuss. He wants to shoot my 4" CZ's also.
Joe L
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Very happy with my PX4 full size. Out of the box the trigger was a little rough, on par with a stock P07/09.
I bought the Beretta competition trigger group, a cougar/PX4 D spring, Langdon trigger bar, and some adjustable sights. If you’re not money, conscious, you can always buy the px4 straight from Langdon tactical with all the goodies and trigger work installed.
It is now an amazing gun, great trigger pull, super short reset, fast to get back on target. Honestly it blew my P07 out of the water, so much so I sold it.
I was truly surprised. It really is an ugly duckling, but it shoots great.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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The PX4 has my interest, especially with LTT upgrades available. I held a compact a while back and the trigger reach in DA seemed longer than the P07. That is an issue for me as the DA trigger reach on the P07 is just about as long as I can deal with. Plus I am already invested in the P07 and P09. I am worried if I give the PX4 a try I will like it! ;D
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I met with my buddy while in New Mexico and let him handle my P-09, P-07, P-10F, C, and S. Had him try the P-10S with a C magazine and sleeve and Holosun red dot. He loved that P-10S combination with the iron co-witness and small red dot with shake awake.
He was surprised that the P-07 was so heavy compared to the striker guns. I hadn't really paid much attention to the weight differences before he pointed it out, since they are all lighter than my 97B"E", LOL.
He is no longer interested in the PX4. All it took to get him interested in the CZ was to watch a few 100-200 yard videos, 1200 miles and 2 days of driving, and 30 minutes at the kitchen table! Next time I'll just send him the gun to try.
I'm pretty sure when I go back to the mountains of New Mexico in 3 or 4 weeks, I'll be installing a sight and polishing some internals of his new P-10S. Maybe even adding a little Sugru. My week with the CZ's in the mountains of New Mexico was 100% successful! Some good targets and another CZ customer.
Joe L
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Very happy with my PX4 full size. Out of the box the trigger was a little rough, on par with a stock P07/09.
I bought the Beretta competition trigger group, a cougar/PX4 D spring, Langdon trigger bar, and some adjustable sights. If you’re not money, conscious, you can always buy the px4 straight from Langdon tactical with all the goodies and trigger work installed.
It is now an amazing gun, great trigger pull, super short reset, fast to get back on target. Honestly it blew my P07 out of the water, so much so I sold it.
I was truly surprised. It really is an ugly duckling, but it shoots great.
Thanks, Lunker. Even though my friend has decided on a P-10S, I'm still interested in the much more expensive and heavier PX4 for myself. I'd probably do it like you, buy a stock gun and install all the goodies myself. I'm very interested in the mechanical design of the little pistol compared to the CZ's and most other handguns.
Joe L
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Very happy with my PX4 full size. Out of the box the trigger was a little rough, on par with a stock P07/09.
I bought the Beretta competition trigger group, a cougar/PX4 D spring, Langdon trigger bar, and some adjustable sights. If you’re not money, conscious, you can always buy the px4 straight from Langdon tactical with all the goodies and trigger work installed.
It is now an amazing gun, great trigger pull, super short reset, fast to get back on target. Honestly it blew my P07 out of the water, so much so I sold it.
I was truly surprised. It really is an ugly duckling, but it shoots great.
Thanks, Lunker. Even though my friend has decided on a P-10S, I'm still interested in the much more expensive and heavier PX4 for myself. I'd probably do it like you, buy a stock gun and install all the goodies myself. I'm very interested in the mechanical design of the little pistol compared to the CZ's and most other handguns.
Joe L
Another super-cool thing about the PX4 is that it was designed for the military trials that SIG won for the next US military pistol. Just about everything in it is modular and extremely robust. As an example, the trigger/hammer group are an integrated unit, and can be pulled out and replaced easily.
The hammer and sear design is right from a Beretta 92, but much easier to deal with because it is one replaceable unit.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231005/1f79d8b43c9c764584590c85a3df2895.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231005/d83e13273460d8683034394741048191.jpg)
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Since I was cleaning my pistol after an outing at the range, I figured I’d point out another nice thing about the PX4 Storm is the robust trigger spring (a weak point on CZ’s). They use a double-legged return spring. So if one leg breaks, the gun keeps running.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231007/059ad6c6e301650ef2afd960841cde5c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231007/e389d30afb4b86f28a9525987af4bcd0.jpg)
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I've tried two of them- one compact and one full size. Both were used. The full size one had some ejection issues due to a bent ejector. Unfortunately I did not realize that at the time and as a result I had 6 stovepipes in the span of 1300+ rounds on that gun. A buddy bent the ejector a bit and now I don't have any stovepipe issues. Although some rounds still have weak ejection. I must have gotten a lemon since my buddy has a PX4 as well and he has not had any malfunctions. Other youtubers seem to have had similar luck too. But with a bit of modding, the issue went away.
The compact PX4 I've had for less time, but it's worked better so far. Out of the 600+ rounds I have on it, I only had 1 round that failed to go into battery which was fixed by me whacking the slide into battery. I'm accurate with it, and if I had to carry a pistol, I would carry this PX4 compact.
Overall, both pistols have a different recoil impulse due to the rotating barrel. It's more of a pushing motion than a snapping motion on a tilt barrel pisotl. The grip is much less bulky than the Beretta 92, but there isn't much texture unless you put grip tape on it. If you're used to the Beretta 92, the DA and SA trigger pulls feel like they break in the same places, but the trigger weight is lighter.
Overall, I've enjoyed both so far.
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Thanks for the feedback, MWNG.
Joe L
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Thanks for the feedback, MWNG.
Joe L
No problem at all! I like these pistols. Although some extra grip traction is a must and a lot of people seem to think it is an ugly design. But I don't mind the design at all.
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Surprised no one's mentioned Grand Power's rotary barrel pistols yet... Especially given they're made in Slovakia and the most like a CZ in the hand...
Beyond that, here's my quick take:
- PX4s reassembly is a fair bit easier than Grand Power, although I have a first gen GP with the pull down trigger guard instead of Glock-style button currently used, so it's probably become easier but not as easy as the Beretta
- Grand Power tends to fill the hand more and has a longer length of pull due to both actual longer length and increased angle meaning length is also longer (I haven't tried all grip panel sizes for both side-by-side, but think this assessment will hold)
-- by increased angle, you can get a higher grip on GP than PX4, so PX4 is more of a straight-to-rear pull like a Sig, while GP is more of up and to the rear like a Glock, so accounting for the angle the distance is also longer if you have a proper, high purchase grip on the GP
-- higher grip purchase is a plus for GP in my book
- PX4's safeties are familiar to Beretta users as well as classic Walther and Bersa Thunder shooters, while Grand Power safeties follow the CZ, 1911, etc., function of up for safe... My GP is safety only and haven't seen decocker model in real life, while PX4 safety model does both safety and decock OR exclusively decock -- so GP can be "cocked-and-locked" while I don't believe the PX4 can be; while GP also can't be decock-only AFAIK (from vids I've seen, the decocker is dual safety and decock).
- I don't like GP's polymer-only trigger (haven't seen aftermarket metal) and the slide release feels cheap being stamped sheet metal... Otherwise, the GP finish is superb and I daresay slightly better than PX4's on the whole.
- This also reflects more aftermarket parts and support for PX4 vs GP, such as sights and safety levers/function and trigger mods.
- GP has a better trigger out of the box in standard configuration IME, though with aftermarket, PX4's can probably be made as good or better.
- PX4 is more compact for concealed carry.
- At this point, they're about the same price, but I picked up my GP for something stupid-low ~$300 when JG Sales was clearancing them out after Century ceased being their importer about a decade ago now... However, if you can get the PX4 with a Beretta rebate, it's likely a better "deal" at low to mid $400s.
All in all and ergonomics/manual of arms differences aside and irrespective of price and between just these two, I think Grand Power has an edge as a competition or duty gun, while PX4 has an edge for concealed carry, new and more feeble shooters (where ease of use and maintenance is essential), and an heirloom gun w/ guaranteed parts and support given it's made in the USA.
To be clear, however -- I think ergonomics/manual of arms standardization should be at the forefront of decision-making for any serious-use weapon, in particular how each points for you and how the controls operate vs. what you've trained or used most to-date.
Caveat emptor -- I don't own a PX4 yet and have only handled at the gun counter, but am heavily leaning towards acquiring one in 9mm for the Mrs as she continues to build shooting skills and confidence, and would benefit from the rotary barrel and easier maintenance as she moves up to a more capable caliber... And FWIW, this thread and some related research has helped me to feel more comfortable heading in that direction.
For visual folks, here's a handgun hero side by side: https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/beretta-px4-storm-compact-vs-grand-power-p1
(Used it to confirm PX4 is in fact more compact than compact GP -- mine's full size...)
As always, YMMV.