The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: Rcher on September 03, 2023, 07:40:32 PM
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I know this guy is doing great reviews of different BCGs, so I kind of trust his expertise. But I was surprised the way he lubricates his rifles. His lube formula looks interesting, BUT... is it just me who think that he OVERLUBRICATES ?
Please share your thoughts how do you lubricate your ARs, HOW MUCH oil or grease you think is enough?
(as for me - I switched to Clenzoil wipes a while ago, looks like it lubricates and protects at the same time).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpWfjVFfEU&fbclid=IwAR2uwc3WtHUljDrPC8YhBdrCy0yofejVB-gwhv3TL0_e3f_tdONHr6rItBw
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My colt m4 and all 1911”s run wet with CLP
CZ s pistols light wipe down .
M14 ..grease good
Ruger 10/22 light spray wi]pe down
Worked great for 30 yrs!
More than you asked but just my 2 cents
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Considering that a decent AR, bone dry, can average about 2,400 rounds before failure (when properly gassed and buffered)...it really doesn't matter how much you lube your rifle as long as you do SOMETHING, and you clean it sometimes.
But that whole "when properly gassed and buffered" part matters a bit.
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For some time now I see the comment on arfcom that AR15's run better wet. Don't know if that's a change from past beliefs or not.
I over oil. Not enough = extra wear/tear as it does on any mechanical moving parts. More than it needs gets flung off as you fire it or rubbed off as you handle it.
After I clean it (which is every time I shoot it and every now and then if it hasn't been shot). I oil it. No grease. ARs are so stinking dirty that grease would just make it harder to clean every time it gets shot. AR15's are kind of like diesels. Sure, it needs good lube to stay running but as soon as you start if up after the new lube job the crud pushes past small gaps and makes the lube filthy again.
I put a couple drops on the left/right sides of the upper receiver while holding it bottom up.
I put a couple/three drops of lube in the charging handle channel while holding it bottom up and then go ahead and slide the charging handle into the channel.
I put a drop or two on the forward assist while holding the upper muzzle down and work the forward assist back and forth several times.
I put a drop or two on the back up rear sight to help keep the adjustment mechanism from rusting/seizing up.
The lower gets a drop of oil on both sides of the trigger and hammer springs. It gets a drop on the safety on both sides (inside) of the shaft. It gets a drop on the side of the disconnector and one drop where the hammer and sear meet. It gets on drop on the outside (right side) and inside (left side) of the magazine release and I work it in/out a few times. It gets one drop on the each of the take down pins. I put a drop of oil in the hole (right side) where the spring for the forward takedown pin is visible.
Every now and then I'll pull the buffer and spring out and put a few drops of oil on the inside walls of the buffer tube and reinstall the buffer and spring.
The bolt gets a couple drops of oil on the gas rings. It gets a couple drops on the inside of the carrier before the bolt is inserted. It get a couple drops in the hole where cam pin goes. It gets a drop on the extractor back in the pin/spring area. It gets a couple drops of oil on the firing pin before it's installed and a drop in the retaining pin hole before the pin is inserted.
I put a drop on oil on each of the parts of the bolt that can make contact with the inside of the upper (small rail looking raised up portions top, bottom, sides of the bolt carrier). I put a two to three drops on the bolt lugs before installing it in the upper receiver.
I put a drop of oil in the front sight post to help keep it from rusting and/or seizing up over time/use/exposure to the weather.
I put a drop of oil on the spring for the ejection port door.
Too much? Maybe. My oil is from the left overs in the Mobil 1 jugs from my car/truck oil changes and I've got plenty.
Do I take my AR15's to the range, throw them down in the dirt/mud, do mag. dumps, etc? Nope. I just shoot them.
Sorry, I find lots of oil spots on something like an AR15.
I even run and oily patch through the barrel after cleaning them and wipe the outside down with the same oil rag I used for the handguns, shot guns, M1A, etc.
As long as they continue to run and not break parts it works for me.
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What M1 says. I prefer running them wet.
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With oil and the blood of my enemies. ;D I subscribe to his YouTube channel too. Good stuff.
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I know this guy is doing great reviews of different BCGs, so I kind of trust his expertise. But I was surprised the way he lubricates his rifles. His lube formula looks interesting, BUT... is it just me who think that he OVERLUBRICATES ?
Please share your thoughts how do you lubricate your ARs, HOW MUCH oil or grease you think is enough?
(as for me - I switched to Clenzoil wipes a while ago, looks like it lubricates and protects at the same time).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpWfjVFfEU
Just use Slip2000 EWL 30 and save the hassle... Slips grease is also farily light viscosity if you prefer instead.
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One cannot overlubricate an AR, as whatever is extra gets "shed" out of the ejection port within a few rounds. The rifle was designed to be run wet, will run dry for a while, but not designed to be run overly dry.
Grease works in a pinch, if there is nothing else available. It will seize up in the cold, I know.
Engine oils work in a pinch also, the only real caveat I see is there is no rust protection from most of the engine oils when stored long term.
Oils designed for firearms lubrication will eventually dry out, and after a number of rounds (depends upon correct gassing of the system) the AR will start to have problems. I know this from experience.
Having a correctly gassed as set up AR may be much less common than thought, as many of us do regularly lube and maintain our tools and this can make up for a few minor missteps within the setup of the AR concerning the correct gassing and bolt fitment. The AR design is solid. Solid enough to allow different parts from different makers of sometimes incorrect specs to be able to be assembled and run. The time of functionality will vary depending upon the amount of quality, correct fitment, and lubrication of the parts.
The big part here is to remember that there are many oil sales pitches. Many lubes have came and went in the years I have seen go by. Some that have been touted as the "greatest EVVVAR!" are no longer being seen on store shelves...... I do trust what he says in his videos. He should know, as he has enough experience and knowledge to teach gunsmithing classes to others on the AR15. Just research him.
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I honestly use motor oil. Whatever is left in the bottles after my oil changes gets collected and put in an old bottle.
Ends up being a mix of Mobil 1, Castrol and Kawasaki 4-cycle. 5W30/10W40/10W30.
Does pretty good on cutting carbon too.
Use the same for my pistols.
I’ve worn out barrels before I’ve worn out moving parts.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I tell this story sometimes. I'll make it shorter by leaving out the where's/why's, etc.
M60 machine guns. 7.62X51. Not as dirty as an M16 but shooting way more rounds between cleaning/lubing. I ended up getting the new ones to break in and carrying one when we went to the field.
At some point I decided I need something different than the issue lubes. I started getting a 1 qt. can of PLS (think it was PLS, it was a light machine oil by the description on the can). When we got out of the trucks I'd step aside, open the feed cover and pour some PLS into the guts of the gun. Close the feed cover and we'd do whatever we were going to do (train on a range, take a walk through the woods as training, etc. I shot a lot of blanks and some live ammo. Lots of blanks with the blank adaptor clamped on the front sight and sticking down in the flash suppressor to trap the right amount of gas to make the gun function.
Every so often during the day/afternoon (no set round count I remember, it was more a feeling of how the gun was functioning) I'd open the feed cover and pour more PLS into it and then load it for what was next. Shoot it, pour lube in it, shoot it, etc.
It did not get cleaned till we went back to the barracks a couple days or a week later. The gun ran fine, regardless of the weather for however long we were out and how ever many rounds/blanks it fired (after that initial aggravating 200 rounds of break in).
When we went back to the barracks I'd pull the sling off it, carry it to the latrine/showers, turn the water on full hot, watch it till the beads of water seemed to hit the tile and bounce across the floor. Then I'd open the feed cover, open up the bipod legs and push that sucker back into the shower water so that the water was going into the guts of the gun. I'd stand there and watch the steam rise off the floor and the black crud run out of the gun. After the black crud stopped washing out of the gun I'd turn the water off, grab the carry handle and head to my room. The gun would be dry by the time I broke it down. I'd grab my old oily rag and wipe it down good inside and out. I'd wipe with dry bore patches to get the excess oil off. Then I'd put it together and carry it downstairs to the company armorer. Hetzel would jump my backside for bringing a dirty gun to the armory. No way I got that M60 clean that fast. He'd start tearing it apart to show me how dirty it was and he'd finally accuse me on not shooting the gun all week. I'd remind him of the times he'd been there when I did fire it (not as often as it was fired but often enough he'd remember and stop the accusations. He couldn't believe the gun was clean so quickly after coming back from the field. I'd have about a 1/2 qt. of PLS left after a week of training/firing. It is my belief that two things happened with all that light oil in/on the gun parts. One is a lot of the crud was washed out with the excess oil. The other is that the oil bath softened the carbon build up and helped the very hot water spray blow it out of the receiver and off the internal parts. The only thing I had to patch/scrub was the barrel.
I know, when I come home from the range these days there's some nasty looking lube on the inside of my AR15 but it wipes right off.
From the range.
(https://i.imgur.com/QgC7Ngjl.jpg)
After a few minutes of wiping off with a dry patch.
(https://i.imgur.com/KfM1qMEl.jpg)
If I kept shooting I'd guess, at some point, the oil would be drying up and the crud would start burning itself to the parts.
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How? just like they taught me in basic. bore cleaner bath, scalding water, light oiling with a good lubricant.
It's really not rocket science. It's a design that excretes where it eats and thus must be kept as clean as possible. Does the job well enough when cared for. I'd take an M14 any day. I have more experience with it though the M16 was very much the standard issue in my time. Just my two cents, kindly dont dog pile.
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I tell this story sometimes. I'll make it shorter by leaving out the where's/why's, etc.
M60 machine guns. 7.62X51. Not as dirty as an M16 but shooting way more rounds between cleaning/lubing. I ended up getting the new ones to break in and carrying one when we went to the field.
At some point I decided I need something different than the issue lubes. I started getting a 1 qt. can of PLS (think it was PLS, it was a light machine oil by the description on the can). When we got out of the trucks I'd step aside, open the feed cover and pour some PLS into the guts of the gun. Close the feed cover and we'd do whatever we were going to do (train on a range, take a walk through the woods as training, etc. I shot a lot of blanks and some live ammo. Lots of blanks with the blank adaptor clamped on the front sight and sticking down in the flash suppressor to trap the right amount of gas to make the gun function.
Every so often during the day/afternoon (no set round count I remember, it was more a feeling of how the gun was functioning) I'd open the feed cover and pour more PLS into it and then load it for what was next. Shoot it, pour lube in it, shoot it, etc.
It did not get cleaned till we went back to the barracks a couple days or a week later. The gun ran fine, regardless of the weather for however long we were out and how ever many rounds/blanks it fired (after that initial aggravating 200 rounds of break in).
When we went back to the barracks I'd pull the sling off it, carry it to the latrine/showers, turn the water on full hot, watch it till the beads of water seemed to hit the tile and bounce across the floor. Then I'd open the feed cover, open up the bipod legs and push that sucker back into the shower water so that the water was going into the guts of the gun. I'd stand there and watch the steam rise off the floor and the black crud run out of the gun. After the black crud stopped washing out of the gun I'd turn the water off, grab the carry handle and head to my room. The gun would be dry by the time I broke it down. I'd grab my old oily rag and wipe it down good inside and out. I'd wipe with dry bore patches to get the excess oil off. Then I'd put it together and carry it downstairs to the company armorer. Hetzel would jump my backside for bringing a dirty gun to the armory. No way I got that M60 clean that fast. He'd start tearing it apart to show me how dirty it was and he'd finally accuse me on not shooting the gun all week. I'd remind him of the times he'd been there when I did fire it (not as often as it was fired but often enough he'd remember and stop the accusations. He couldn't believe the gun was clean so quickly after coming back from the field. I'd have about a 1/2 qt. of PLS left after a week of training/firing. It is my belief that two things happened with all that light oil in/on the gun parts. One is a lot of the crud was washed out with the excess oil. The other is that the oil bath softened the carbon build up and helped the very hot water spray blow it out of the receiver and off the internal parts. The only thing I had to patch/scrub was the barrel.
I know, when I come home from the range these days there's some nasty looking lube on the inside of my AR15 but it wipes right off.
From the range.
(https://i.imgur.com/QgC7Ngjl.jpg)
After a few minutes of wiping off with a dry patch.
(https://i.imgur.com/KfM1qMEl.jpg)
If I kept shooting I'd guess, at some point, the oil would be drying up and the crud would start burning itself to the parts.
Oils bond to the metals providing a protective layer, and enough oil suspends contaminants.
Carbon in particular is water-soluble, and the hot water washes away much of the excess oil -- adding soap would wash away all of it including removing oil from pores of metal. Slip2000s carbon cleaner is water based as are most other nontoxic carbon cleaners.
I like to run my ARs wet, so that I can just wipe them down after shooting. I do run grease on bearing surfaces like hammer and bolt carrier and cam pin and detent channels. And I find chromed, Nickel Boron, and Nitride coatings all help to wipe things down easier than just phosphate -- all things being equal, I think I'd prefer either a Nitride or NP3 coating for the exterior of the carrier w/ chromed inner, and nickel boron for the bolt (bolt coating primarily b/c most of the nicer barrel extensions are coated in the same material, so equal wear -- and I want my extractor w/o this coating on it).
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I honestly use motor oil. Whatever is left in the bottles after my oil changes gets collected and put in an old bottle.
Grease works in a pinch, if there is nothing else available. It will seize up in the cold, I know.
Engine oils work in a pinch also, the only real caveat I see is there is no rust protection from most of the engine oils when stored long term.
Modern gun greases only have issues in extremely cold temps, and actually the issue seems to be more moisture freezing than issues w/ gun lubes solidifying (w/ some notable exceptions such as snake oils like FrogLube) -- so if you don't live in Alaska or the Artic Circle, then you're generally good with grease.
Additionally, engine oils are designed for optimal performance around 200*F, which isn't the temp at which guns operate on most surfaces that need lube and also have a bunch of additives that provide no benefit and may cause harm.
And while the base oils in motor oil might be nontoxic so long as it's not used oil -- many of the additive packages may not be safe and ARs tend to aerosolize at least some of lube used on them, so even if you wear gloves, etc. precautions, you can't eliminate all exposure... So that's why I tend to stick to Slip2000's legit nontoxic lubes as my first line.
YMMV.
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I honestly use motor oil. Whatever is left in the bottles after my oil changes gets collected and put in an old bottle.
Grease works in a pinch, if there is nothing else available. It will seize up in the cold, I know.
Engine oils work in a pinch also, the only real caveat I see is there is no rust protection from most of the engine oils when stored long term.
Modern gun greases only have issues in extremely cold temps, and actually the issue seems to be more moisture freezing than issues w/ gun lubes solidifying (w/ some notable exceptions such as snake oils like FrogLube) -- so if you don't live in Alaska or the Artic Circle, then you're generally good with grease.
Additionally, engine oils are designed for optimal performance around 200*F, which isn't the temp at which guns operate on most surfaces that need lube and also have a bunch of additives that provide no benefit and may cause harm.
And while the base oils in motor oil might be nontoxic so long as it's not used oil -- many of the additive packages may not be safe and ARs tend to aerosolize at least some of lube used on them, so even if you wear gloves, etc. precautions, you can't eliminate all exposure... So that's why I tend to stick to Slip2000's legit nontoxic lubes as my first line.
YMMV.
I was not meaning gun grease, I meant greases....as in automotive greases; my use was actual wheel bearing grease.
Most oils can/may contain toxic additives, and if that is an issue for anyone I do suggest finding non-toxic lubrication materials....just as you have. I did mean to use motor oils as a "last" resort if needed in my post. I have found that for whatever reason when I tried them, there tended to be more "used up/dried" from my use in an AR during firing. Not scientific, just my experiences.
I went through a fairly long period of trying out different lubes to see what could/would/does work in varying conditions to get an idea of what I could use if needed. That being said, I have went back to good old CLP for my lubing needs. That seems to be the best average of what I need in the situations I encounter in my life for AR lube.
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I use marine grade bearing grease as appropriate for the M1 and M1A rifles and on the SIG 556R bolt/rails (gas piston and stays very clean in the receivers vs. the DI AR15/M16.)
As addicted as I am to the idea that a few minutes spent cleaning/lubing increase the likelihood of less issues later I hate to use grease on an AR15. Just makes it harder to wipe clean every time it gets shot and harder to keep clean fingers. If I had a gas piston AR15 (almost bought a SIG516 a couple times) I'd probably try grease on the bolt lugs and the high spots on the bolt that ride against the inside of the upper receiver.
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I went through a fairly long period of trying out different lubes to see what could/would/does work in varying conditions to get an idea of what I could use if needed. That being said, I have went back to good old CLP for my lubing needs. That seems to be the best average of what I need in the situations I encounter in my life for AR lube.
FWIW, Breakfree CLP is definitely an irritant and may be toxic. Personally, I consider synthetic unused motor oil to be less dangerous (including fumes) than large exposure to Breakfree. I do however try to put on nitrile gloves when using harsher chemicals.
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I use marine grade bearing grease as appropriate for the M1 and M1A rifles and on the SIG 556R bolt/rails (gas piston and stays very clean in the receivers vs. the DI AR15/M16.)
As addicted as I am to the idea that a few minutes spent cleaning/lubing increase the likelihood of less issues later I hate to use grease on an AR15. Just makes it harder to wipe clean every time it gets shot and harder to keep clean fingers. If I had a gas piston AR15 (almost bought a SIG516 a couple times) I'd probably try grease on the bolt lugs and the high spots on the bolt that ride against the inside of the upper receiver.
Yeah, marine bearing grease is super thick and sticky -- and not at all like Slip2000's grease, which is thinner than petroleum jelly and thin enough to almost become a liquid just from the heat of one's hands. Actually, what I'd guess I'd most compare it to is coconut oil in high 70 degrees -- on the verge of transitioning from a solid to a liquid and quite slippery but before it liquifies.
Slip is a dual lubricant/penetrant, so the thicker formulations EWL30 and grease are really needed if you want the places you lube to stay wet.
Slip isn't the best rust protectant, and especially older blued guns intended for sporting afield need greater protection than Slip can provide IMO, but overall it's good to have an option that's not only effective for most of my needs but also has a neutral safety profile... And it also washes out in warm water as well vs. some of the automotive and especially marine greases -- I generally use Amsoil for my auto grease needs FWIW.
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Among the many crazy thing people do is worry about things that have no meaning in their chosen environment.
Don't put to much lube on the gun it'll just attract dust and lead to malfunctions. How many people who never go near a dry/dusty environment worry about that advice? I don't
A 5.56X45 is only good out to about 500 or 600 yds. You need a .308/7.62X51 to reach out there. Where I live 100 yds. is about it. Neither my vision nor the bullets can go through that many trees in this flat country.
Don't use grease, it'll freeze in arctic conditions. In my 38 years down here I think I've seen it below zero one or two mornings (maybe, it's been so long I'm not sure). And, the only thing I use grease on is the rifles that benefit from it.
Not trying to start an argument or make fun of people's choices. Just saying that lots of people don't consider the world they live/work in and get all tore up about things they read on the internet.
Many people on the internet laugh at the idea of cleaning their AR15 more often than every 3 or 4 thousand rounds. Okay. It's their AR15. Mine gets cleaned when I get home after shooting it.
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I use marine grade bearing grease as appropriate for the M1 and M1A rifles and on the SIG 556R bolt/rails (gas piston and stays very clean in the receivers vs. the DI AR15/M16.)
As addicted as I am to the idea that a few minutes spent cleaning/lubing increase the likelihood of less issues later I hate to use grease on an AR15. Just makes it harder to wipe clean every time it gets shot and harder to keep clean fingers. If I had a gas piston AR15 (almost bought a SIG516 a couple times) I'd probably try grease on the bolt lugs and the high spots on the bolt that ride against the inside of the upper receiver.
I am with you on what you lube with. The one thing that some might forget is that the differences in how the rifles operate due to their gas systems, the differences in what lube is the better for getting the gun to stay running, clean, and also, being able TO clean later.....good stuff! The grease in the AR did make for a much dirtier cleanup job afterwards, no argument.
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And that's the neat thing about the gas piston guns. On the SIG 556R I only had to clean in the inside of the receiver and the bolt/bolt lugs once every three or four range trips. That grease stayed nice and green for a good while.
The DI guns, like an AR15, are about like a diesel. You can remove the used oil and crud (black as coal) and put new lube on it. Use it once and it's nasty and black with crud again. If you've ever worked on a diesel (I had one, once) it takes a combination of multiple washing and some wear off of skin to get that stain off/out of your hands/fingers.
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FWIW, Breakfree CLP is definitely an irritant and may be toxic. Personally, I consider synthetic unused motor oil to be less dangerous (including fumes) than large exposure to Breakfree. I do however try to put on nitrile gloves when using harsher chemicals.
I have two kids so I always look for non toxic alternatives for lube and cleaners. I’ve been using Gunfighter lube and cleaners for about a year or so and have been more than pleased. The majority of fouling just wipes off and I just hit it again with a few drops of oil. I do however still use Hoppes foaming bore cleaner and nitrile gloves for the tuff stuff. https://carrytrainer.com/ammo-gear/gear-accessories/gear/gunfighter-gun-oil/
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Anyone try pure mineral oil as a non-toxic lube? It's the main ingredient in many gun lubes and the ones from the pharmacy aisle are meant to be taken as a laxative so it's definitely non-toxic.
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Anyone try pure mineral oil as a non-toxic lube? It's the main ingredient in many gun lubes and the ones from the pharmacy aisle are meant to be taken as a laxative so it's definitely non-toxic.
Used as a laxative?! So I guess it does work worth a sh|+? ;D
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Anyone try pure mineral oil as a non-toxic lube? It's the main ingredient in many gun lubes and the ones from the pharmacy aisle are meant to be taken as a laxative so it's definitely non-toxic.
Used as a laxative?! So I guess it does work worth a sh|+? ;D
Sometimes I wish we had a "like" button here.
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There is another way of going about non toxic lube if you want grease, also.
Do a search with "food grade grease lubricant" in your bar. This will turn up many different kinds/brands of grease for lubrication. Careful choosing will allow one to find a suitable grease for your needs on a firearm.....
I found a tube of food grade grease once, and it is a very good grease. I would have to go and dig it out to give the actual grade of the grease (think NLG # ), but my recollection is that is somewhere above a #2 type of synthectic grease.
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Anyone try pure mineral oil as a non-toxic lube? It's the main ingredient in many gun lubes and the ones from the pharmacy aisle are meant to be taken as a laxative so it's definitely non-toxic.
Pure mineral oil is lacking as a firearms lubricant, if I recall the information correctly, that I read years ago on some testing that was done by the military.
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There is another way of going about non toxic lube if you want grease, also.
Do a search with "food grade grease lubricant" in your bar. This will turn up many different kinds/brands of grease for lubrication. Careful choosing will allow one to find a suitable grease for your needs on a firearm.....
I found a tube of food grade grease once, and it is a very good grease. I would have to go and dig it out to give the actual grade of the grease (think NLG # ), but my recollection is that is somewhere above a #2 type of synthectic grease.
We use food grade grease at work but it’s not extremely high heat applications. I don’t know how well food grade grease would hold up in a prolonged high heat situation.
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Anyone try pure mineral oil as a non-toxic lube? It's the main ingredient in many gun lubes and the ones from the pharmacy aisle are meant to be taken as a laxative so it's definitely non-toxic.
Pure mineral oil is lacking as a firearms lubricant, if I recall the information correctly, that I read years ago on some testing that was done by the military.
Not sure I'd put any stock in what the military claims about anythng. Mineral oil may not be optimal for firearms use given the availability of firearms specific lubes today but I'd say it would work if that's all a person had around which is probably not likely anyway. However those of us old enough to know remember that mineral oil was the primary lubricant used in the old R-12 and R-22 air conditioning and refrigeration systems.
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We use food grade grease at work but it’s not extremely high heat applications. I don’t know how well food grade grease would hold up in a prolonged high heat situation.
Yes, all oils are purpose-designed for the temps at which they operate -- car oils designed for high heat and food and other such oils designed for lower temps. Gun oils have to do both effectively, while both of the other can bias their performance specs.
I have two kids so I always look for non toxic alternatives for lube and cleaners. I’ve been using Gunfighter lube and cleaners for about a year or so and have been more than pleased. The majority of fouling just wipes off and I just hit it again with a few drops of oil. I do however still use Hoppes foaming bore cleaner and nitrile gloves for the tuff stuff. https://carrytrainer.com/ammo-gear/gear-accessories/gear/gunfighter-gun-oil/
First I've heard of Gunfighter -- first blush, looks to be rebranded Slip or Weaponshield or Lucas...
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First I've heard of Gunfighter -- first blush, looks to be rebranded Slip or Weaponshield or Lucas...
I was actually using Weaponshield before I switched to Gunfighter Lube. I don’t think it’s rebranded Weaponshield, but not sure about Slip or Lucas. I switched from Weaponshield because I found it was thickening and becoming slightly tacky over time. It seemed to work well at first tho. I am diggin the Gunfighter Lube so far. It seems to soak in really well. When I do a complete tear-down and full strip of my guns, I like to toss the metal parts in the oven or toaster oven on low to warm them up before I do a final lube. I shift work so they tend to sit for longer periods of time than I’d like them to, so I want that lube to soak in good and deep. Helps me sleep better at night knowing my babies are taken care of. ;D
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First I've heard of Gunfighter -- first blush, looks to be rebranded Slip or Weaponshield or Lucas...
I was actually using Weaponshield before I switched to Gunfighter Lube. I don’t think it’s rebranded Weaponshield, but not sure about Slip or Lucas. I switched from Weaponshield because I found it was thickening and becoming slightly tacky over time. It seemed to work well at first tho. I am diggin the Gunfighter Lube so far. It seems to soak in really well. When I do a complete tear-down and full strip of my guns, I like to toss the metal parts in the oven or toaster oven on low to warm them up before I do a final lube. I shift work so they tend to sit for longer periods of time than I’d like them to, so I want that lube to soak in good and deep. Helps me sleep better at night knowing my babies are taken care of. ;D
I found the same with Weaponshield, also.
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Now I had to go and redo my research on the Bel-Ray No-Tox USDA H-1 grease tube that I have...... 8)
https://www.belray.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/No-Tox-HD-Food-Grade-Grease.pdf (https://www.belray.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/No-Tox-HD-Food-Grade-Grease.pdf)
Mine is an older tube that does not have any part numbers on it, just the name of the contents, so I cannot truthfully say which one it is, but the feel/thickness is much like any other #2 grease (if not even a bit thicker) that I have ever seen. Just for reader info, I run heavy equipment for a living, and I have seen/used alot of greases over the years. ;)
Looking at the pdf in the link, this seems to have mineral oil as one of the base stock materials....so here is one for JMWalker to look at.
I have not extensively tested this grease out for my needs, as I quit using grease within my firearms as per previous discussion, so I cannot speak to how it would actually perform.
On the tube(tube is all white color with a blue ring around insertion end:
Bel-Ray
No-Tox
USDA H-1
FOOD MACHINERY LUBRICANT
contains bactericides
and then on the other side of the tube is Bel-Rays' address
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First I've heard of Gunfighter -- first blush, looks to be rebranded Slip or Weaponshield or Lucas...
I was actually using Weaponshield before I switched to Gunfighter Lube. I don’t think it’s rebranded Weaponshield, but not sure about Slip or Lucas. I switched from Weaponshield because I found it was thickening and becoming slightly tacky over time. It seemed to work well at first tho. I am diggin the Gunfighter Lube so far. It seems to soak in really well. When I do a complete tear-down and full strip of my guns, I like to toss the metal parts in the oven or toaster oven on low to warm them up before I do a final lube. I shift work so they tend to sit for longer periods of time than I’d like them to, so I want that lube to soak in good and deep. Helps me sleep better at night knowing my babies are taken care of. ;D
Interesting -- they just all use similar packaging w/ similar claims of formulation and performance so figured all to be incrementally different, generally speaking, sort of like how fuel companies/gas station brands or engine oils of same weight have different additive packages but similar base specs.
Looking at Gunfighter, it appears their products are similar to Slip's EWL 30 (since their oil claims it stays wet), grease, and water-based gun cleaner. I'm sure there are differences -- I just don't know that I would be able to notice actual ones in performance and also don't know that potential incremental performance gains are currently worth it to change from Slip.
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Does oil on a carry gun actually "dry up" or does it get so loaded with dust, pollen, lint, etc. that stick to the lube and appear to dry it out more than it really is?
I can't forget, several years ago I pulled my old rifles out of the attic. 03A3, M1917, 03 Mk1, 03A4, etc. which had been lying in a pile in one corner inside zipped up soft rifle cases. They'd been there for about 8 years. 110 F and humid some summer days. Just above freezing most of the time in the winter with dips below freezing a few nights of the winter. The oil I used to use to lube/wipe down guns for rust prevention was 3n1 oil (grew up using it). Some places on the rifles the oil was still wet. Eight years and the oil had not dried out.
My dad used 3n1 oil as well, as his dad did. One trip home my dad said his little pocket pistol had started jamming and he wanted me to look at it. I got it out of the desk drawer and it had funny sort of yellow/brown stains on the outside finish (nickel plated). I took it apart and it was kind of cruddy inside. Not like a powder residue build up, but something hard/thick. I got out the Hoppes#9 and bore patches and started wiping the outside down first. With solvent and elbow grease the yellow/brown stains started coming off the outside surfaces. I got an old tooth brush and started scrubbing the rails, inside of the frame, etc. and wiping with bore patches and that stuff inside was the same color on the patch as the stuff the solvent removed from the outside.
Once I'd gotten it all good and clean I lubed it up, took it out back and it functioned fine.
I came to the conclusion that, over time and handling, the lube had gotten thick/gooey/hard/built up on the surfaces of the pistol inside and outside. I've never seen that happen before. I got his revolver out of the closet and it had the same build up on the outside and the Hoppes#9 removed that as well. A half can of carb cleaner cleaned some crud out of the inside of the revolver (I didn't remove the side plate on his S&W, just the grips). I let it dry, sprayed some lube inside as well as I could, a few drops of 3n1 oil on the parts I usually oil on S&W revolvers and then wiped it down with an oily rag to protect the surfaces from rust/corrosion.
Never seen that happen before but that was 3n1 oil, had to be, that's what dad used on his guns. So, sometimes, some oils, under some conditions can (in my experience/opinion) get thick/gooey/appear to dry out. I think it's a how you use it, how often you clean it/how well you clean it, how you carry it, etc. issue.
As they say, your mileage may vary.
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Bolt Assembly gets dipped in Mobil 1 5w30. Bolt Carrier Rails get a very light coating of Mobil 1 Synthetic Bearing Grease.
Barrel Bore gets a light coating of Ballistol for Storage, but dried with Brake Cleaner for Range use.
Trigger Assembly gets Mobil 1 5w30. Hammer Hooks get a light coating of Mobil 1 Synthetic Bearing Grease.
Never a problem!
(http://i.imgur.com/4CeArdXl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/4CeArdX)
Custom AR15A2
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Does oil on a carry gun actually "dry up" or does it get so loaded with dust, pollen, lint, etc. that stick to the lube and appear to dry it out more than it really is?
Older types of non-synthetic oils tend to oxidize much faster. This oxidation turns the lubricant into a gummy, pasty, near-grease that may actually keep some mechanisms from functioning at all. Items with light weight springs, like those within the trigger group, will have trouble well before things like the hammer. However, even the hammer and firing pin may be slowed enough to cause light strikes.
WD-40 goes through a similar transformation as well, but usually at a faster rate.
This is why if you're using motor oils to lubricate a gun, you'll usually see the word synthetic included. This, or the mention of a brand of oil that is only available as a synthetic, such as Mobil-1.
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Does oil on a carry gun actually "dry up" or does it get so loaded with dust, pollen, lint, etc. that stick to the lube and appear to dry it out more than it really is?
I can't forget, several years ago I pulled my old rifles out of the attic. 03A3, M1917, 03 Mk1, 03A4, etc. which had been lying in a pile in one corner inside zipped up soft rifle cases. They'd been there for about 8 years. 110 F and humid some summer days. Just above freezing most of the time in the winter with dips below freezing a few nights of the winter. The oil I used to use to lube/wipe down guns for rust prevention was 3n1 oil (grew up using it). Some places on the rifles the oil was still wet. Eight years and the oil had not dried out.
My dad used 3n1 oil as well, as his dad did. One trip home my dad said his little pocket pistol had started jamming and he wanted me to look at it. I got it out of the desk drawer and it had funny sort of yellow/brown stains on the outside finish (nickel plated). I took it apart and it was kind of cruddy inside. Not like a powder residue build up, but something hard/thick. I got out the Hoppes#9 and bore patches and started wiping the outside down first. With solvent and elbow grease the yellow/brown stains started coming off the outside surfaces. I got an old tooth brush and started scrubbing the rails, inside of the frame, etc. and wiping with bore patches and that stuff inside was the same color on the patch as the stuff the solvent removed from the outside.
Once I'd gotten it all good and clean I lubed it up, took it out back and it functioned fine.
I came to the conclusion that, over time and handling, the lube had gotten thick/gooey/hard/built up on the surfaces of the pistol inside and outside. I've never seen that happen before. I got his revolver out of the closet and it had the same build up on the outside and the Hoppes#9 removed that as well. A half can of carb cleaner cleaned some crud out of the inside of the revolver (I didn't remove the side plate on his S&W, just the grips). I let it dry, sprayed some lube inside as well as I could, a few drops of 3n1 oil on the parts I usually oil on S&W revolvers and then wiped it down with an oily rag to protect the surfaces from rust/corrosion.
Never seen that happen before but that was 3n1 oil, had to be, that's what dad used on his guns. So, sometimes, some oils, under some conditions can (in my experience/opinion) get thick/gooey/appear to dry out. I think it's a how you use it, how often you clean it/how well you clean it, how you carry it, etc. issue.
As they say, your mileage may vary.
Yes, light oils will evaporate -- that why RemOil, which is super light includes teflon. WD40 gets tacky over time, which is why it shouldn't be used in locks. Most aerosol oils have at least some carrier components designed to evaporate.
Also mineral oils evaporate faster than synthetic/blend oils. Usually higher temps mean faster evaporation. Older gun oils use the mineral/refined oils as their base and often times were less refined than they are nowadays.
A lot of time the hard stuff left behind is whatever thickeners or additives the oil originally contained, with lithium probably being one of the most common.
I've found fresh WD40 is best for removing dried out and tacky old WD40, and that light gun oils work great at removing/displacing storage grease from surplus items -- and then if wanting to fully remove oil, you can then give the item a scalding hot water bath if you don't have a parts washer; simple green is also an option too though IMO less effective than these other two.
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Does oil on a carry gun actually "dry up" or does it get so loaded with dust, pollen, lint, etc. that stick to the lube and appear to dry it out more than it really is?
Older types of non-synthetic oils tend to oxidize much faster. This oxidation turns the lubricant into a gummy, pasty, near-grease that may actually keep some mechanisms from functioning at all. Items with light weight springs, like those within the trigger group, will have trouble well before things like the hammer. However, even the hammer and firing pin may be slowed enough to cause light strikes.
WD-40 goes through a similar transformation as well, but usually at a faster rate.
This is why if you're using motor oils to lubricate a gun, you'll usually see the word synthetic included. This, or the mention of a brand of oil that is only available as a synthetic, such as Mobil-1.
Yes the oxidation is big factor, but non-synthetic oils also evaporate faster than synthetic.
And a lot of the really light gun oils also do evaporate, with a large portion of what you're spraying out aerosol cans being carrier liquids that are supposed to evaporate shortly after application by design.
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A lot of interesting stuff, thank you everyone for your thoughts!
(1) What is your opinion and experience with RIG Universal grease? Is it only good for long-term storage or can be used for lube?
(2) Also, coming back to the original video - did everyone have experience with mixing grease with oil, like SOTAR did? (Doesn't matter which oil or grease).
Speaking about cleaning and degreasing BCG I use odorless mineral spirits Klean-Strip from Homedepot (~$20 per gallon) and long jar from olives. I disassemble BCG and soak it for 24 hours. Almost all residue is going out. The bottom of the jar is covered by carbon, but I use same solvent up to 10-15 times. After that I do final cleaning with any CLP available and lubricate the whole BCG well.
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(2) Also, coming back to the original video - did everyone have experience with mixing grease with oil, like SOTAR did? (Doesn't matter which oil or grease).
He mixes them b/c neither the auto oil nor the auto grease is ideal for all applications in an AR in all environmental conditions... Gun greases such as Slip's offering typically are not nearly or anywhere approaching the thickness of automotive greases -- if you're potentially facing cold then you want a thin grease, and anyone whose changed gear oil in cold weather without first putting bottles in a hot water bath understands why (and why I think Amsoil's synthetic gear oils or their premium direct competitors pay for themselves in fuel savings, but that's a different matter). To be clear -- purpose made gun greases have a similar consistency to his goop concoction and I have no concerns with their performance in cold conditions I'd be outside in, without the mess and potentially better performance across all aspects of performance one wants in a gun lube, not just keeping the weapon lubricated and running as economically as possible.
One good thing w/ greases is that they do provide a buffer between metal parts rather than just reducing friction, which reduces wear of bearing surfaces vs oil. Grease can also provide additional buffering recoil reduction as bonds between the grease on two surfaces must first shear before the bearing surfaces separate (arguable if noticeable to shooter however), which doesn't really apply to oil.
It used to be only the AK guys who were proud to lube their guns from auto supply stores, but the budget everyman builds and austerity torture tests and perhaps also some minimalism seem to have popularized such for the AR platform in recent years too... I can't wrap my head around why anyone would want to use ATF fluid on their weapons however from smell, mess, stain, etc., perspectives -- though wouldn't necessarily object to using motor oil or grease if it was all I had at my disposal.
FWIW, I do use vintage Swiss grease (Waffenfett) on some older rifles, and also do have a few VZ58 cleaning kits with whatever OE oil they were shipped with but don't use that on my Vz58s as I think the modern synthetic commercial lubes are unquestionably superior, though would be interested if anyone had any testing capabilities to determine composition... The auto version (Automatenfett) of the Swiss grease is also something I wouldn't hesitate to use in the present day. YMMV.
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I've mixed Enos Slide Glide Lite grease with oil. But it was at the range, usually when I took a pistol lubed for the warm climate of Central Texas to a cold range in New Mexico in the Fall. I always have to add some oil to the grease to get the pistols to cycle reliably. And I stopped using even the light grease on the Kadet because it would barely cycle below 60F with any grease on the rails.
Since I don't shoot my AR very often, I just add a few drops of oil to the BCG before heading to the range, assuming I put it up cleaned and wet last time out.
Joe L
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I've mixed Enos Slide Glide Lite grease with oil. But it was at the range, usually when I took a pistol lubed for the warm climate of Central Texas to a cold range in New Mexico in the Fall. I always have to add some oil to the grease to get the pistols to cycle reliably. And I stopped using even the light grease on the Kadet because it would barely cycle below 60F with any grease on the rails.
Since I don't shoot my AR very often, I just add a few drops of oil to the BCG before heading to the range, assuming I put it up cleaned and wet last time out.
Joe L
Joe -- pretty sure I've seen posts from you re: tuning recoil springs and loads for competition use, etc. Where you're fine tuning things to such extent, then yes, it might affect function, but for general use/OEM setups intended to function with a wide range of ammo, then it really shouldn't make a difference... Feel free to speak if that's the case here.
I've amateur cold-tested via freezing handguns and ammo and haven't seen an issue in fairly stock guns -- if anything the grease seems to help provide a greater buffer between frost seizing between protected surfaces than oil for at least greater first shot reliability, but YMMV.
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Does oil on a carry gun actually "dry up" or does it get so loaded with dust, pollen, lint, etc. that stick to the lube and appear to dry it out more than it really is?
I wouldn’t say the oil dries up as much as I might say it wicks away. I don’t really worry too much about lint and dust buildup either. I tend to clean my carry guns more frequently. At the very least, wipe’em down and re-oil them regularly.
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Joe -- pretty sure I've seen posts from you re: tuning recoil springs and loads for competition use, etc. Where you're fine tuning things to such extent, then yes, it might affect function, but for general use/OEM setups intended to function with a wide range of ammo, then it really shouldn't make a difference... Feel free to speak if that's the case here.
I've amateur cold-tested via freezing handguns and ammo and haven't seen an issue in fairly stock guns -- if anything the grease seems to help provide a greater buffer between frost seizing between protected surfaces than oil for at least greater first shot reliability, but YMMV.
Good point that I forgot to qualify. In my pistols, I tend to use lightly loaded ammo and heavy recoil springs to guarantee consistent lockup on the semi auto pistols. This means that the pistols will just barely cycle when clean and lightly lubed, so the combination is more sensitive to any increase in viscosity than, say, a self defense pistol with hotter ammo and the factory recoil spring. Your point is well made--stock pistols will be less sensitive to oil/grease viscosity.
I am guilty of forgetting how a box stock pistol operates on average!
Joe L
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A product named Eezox which cleans, lubricates, and protects.
Well ventilated, wash hands afterwards, and I'll never look for another product.
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A product named Eezox which cleans, lubricates, and protects.
Well ventilated, wash hands afterwards, and I'll never look for another product.
Huge Eezox fan as well.