The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: Davehb on October 22, 2023, 10:08:53 PM
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What’s a good powder in midrange of pistol powder for clean burn, low flash.
Researching powders I was leaning towards Alliant BE-86, but my understanding is it’s about the same as power pistol with a flash suppressant, only slightly reducing muzzle flash.
Also Liking specs I see on Accurate #7, Alliant Unique, and Hogdon CFE pistol.
Been hard for me to find whether clean, dirty, and flash on each powder.
Can anyone give me their experiences with any of those, or a few others if they are in the ranges highlighted below.
Mostly be for JHP, FMJ 115, and 124gr, hoping to go mid-high charge.
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I would highly recommend the VihtaVuori N300 family of powders.
These are single-base powders, so they shoot much cooler. They "push" a lot more than "jerk", so shot placement is improved. Without the nitroglycerine, the flash is greatly reduced. And with the powder being completely consumed, they are absolutely the cleanest powders you will ever use. They also happen to meter very, very well.
• N320 is primarily used on competition. Max 124gr bullet velocity in 9mm is around 1050fps, so loads are kept to a minimum while operating in the most optimal range.
• N330 is the optimal 9mm powder for all-around flexibility. It is one step slower than 320.
• N340 has all the same attributes as 320 and 330 while being one step slower, making it perfect for SD loads using 124, 135 and 147gr loads.
(N310 is the faster powder in the same series and is perfect in blow-back 32Auto & 380Auto and low pressure 45ACP loads.)
Be Forewarned: For this privledge you will pay about 1 cent more per round, but once you use it you will become an addict. And like an addict, you may find yourself pondering how to sell things around the house (including the kids) to get your next "fix". ;D
IMR used to offer single-base pistol powders up until about 5 years ago. Their closest equivalent being 7625, which you may still find at older dealers. Nobel Sport offers a Vectan Ba line of single-base powders, but their base leaves a particle residue. If price is an issue Powder Valley sells this at discounted rates in 1.1 lb cans. Accurate also markets a line of single-base powders under the "Solo" name.
Hope this helps.
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My favorites now are Sport Pistol and Vhit 3n37. Both are clean never any unburned powder, barrels are very clean after a 150 round range session, both meter very well, both are versatile powder in 38 spl, 357 mag, 357 sig, 9mm 40 S&W, 45acp, and I’m sure I’ll like it in 10mm also.
Good luck deciding on a powder, there is many good choices out there. 3n37 is about on line with CFE pistol. I have both and prefer 3n37, it seems to have a smoother recoil, to me.
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yes sir. It does.
I did cursory search on Vihtavuori, but couldn’t find much mention so kind of quit looking.
I guess price is probably the reason not much discussion on it. Price is what the price is.
I need what will work for my application. Which is mainly a powder that will optimize handgun, and carbine for predators going after my animals.
Digging deeper, I really like what I’m hearing, and finding on it.
N340 does fit the parameters I’m looking for.
From their website “and as with powder N320, with N340 extremely clean burning and no residuals is guaranteed.”
Any experience with the 3N37 powder.
N350 looks promising on performance parameters. Might make a good carbine load too. 🤔
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What’s a good powder in midrange of pistol powder for clean burn, low flash.
I need what will work for my application. Which is mainly a powder that will optimize handgun, and carbine for predators going after my animals.
• You seem to be changing the question. Yes, N340 and N350 would make really good carbine powders. I have tried 3N37 and 3N38, but those are not single-base and easily matched by less expensive American powders, like BE-86.
• It's pistol competitors that mainly use the N300 series powders. So you're not going to find discussion of N320 on Reddit or other sites populated with teenage armchair shooters. However, if you go to a real competition web forum, like Brian Enos, you'll see a lot.
We have also covered it here. In fact we have entire threads dedicated to N320 and N330. Check our Reloading Directory in the stickies.
;)
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What’s a good powder in midrange of pistol powder for clean burn, low flash.
• You seem to be changing the question. Yes, N340 and N350 would make really good carbine powders. I have tried 3N37 and 3N38, but those are not single-base and easily matched by less expensive American powders, like BE-86.
• It's pistol competitors that mainly use the N300 series powders. So you're not going to find discussion of N320 on Reddit or other sites populated with teenage armchair shooters. However, if you go to a real competition web forum, like Brian Enos, you'll see a lot.
We have also covered it here. In fact we have entire threads dedicated to N320 and N330. Check our Reloading Directory in the stickies.
;)
Not trying to change it.
Guess it does seem that way. I admit I do have issue explaining myself thoroughly at times.
I’ve just found factory loads that perform best in the 75B also seems to work well in carbine for. thus my follow up statement regarding carbine load. I’d be loading for the 75B.
If that makes sense. POI shifts seem to be about the same on both for same ammunition.
That was my mistake on the 3n37 and 3N38. I clicked on the (“Vihtavuori N300 offers porous single base gun powders and precise measuring for pistol cartridges”) link on their website and assumed link was supposed to be only single base.
Should’ve known the extra designation should’ve meant something. [emoji2361]
With regards to being like BE-86 they wouldn’t be what I’m looking for.
I’m trying to get back up to speed.
Lots of changes over the years. Plus a LOT more options [emoji15]
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Not trying to change it.
Makes no difference, I'm only trying to understand what you want and answer your questions.
It's all good.
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welcome
something you want to keep in mind is the word TRY !
Trying does not mean you are committed to buying it 24/7/365 and losing 1 arm, leg and first born. Its just TRYING !
I know you and others want the easy/fast answer, but again, TRY.
If you are going to shoot and play more with guns, you will need to TRY ! sorry its how it goes.
I have many different types of powders since i was TRYING various brands/types. I bought VV since at the time i never heard of it and it appeared to do what i wanted and needed at that ime. Yes, its MORE expensive than other powders, but its your choice.
If you want, TRY 1 lb of whatever and see how you like it. If you do, then look for larger cans.
good luck
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Not trying to change it.
Makes no difference, I'm only trying to understand what you want and answer your questions.
It's all good.
You basically answered it.
You pointed out a powder I wouldn’t have even looked at otherwise.
Appreciate the help.
Trying to find a good powder to optimize performance, and accuracy with low flash.
Your recommendation was type of powders I was looking for.
Even though PCC performs well with same ammunition 75B likes I got looking I started wondering “aloud” about optimizing load, mad tailoring specifically for a PCC (you did say it’s addicting) [emoji3] but unlikely I’d do so because anything tailored for PCC might not function in the CZ.
For accuracy, So far, the CZ doesn’t seem to like anything slower than approximately 1100fps past ~30 yards. Nor does it like American gunner for accuracy.
Does very good out to 40 yards with XRG, and HST standard pressure.
Finally got 2 more books in I ordered, been studying and going over data. I’m Slowly remembering some. Waiting on few more to come in.
Gonna try some 340.
I’d try some N350 too but, out of stock everywhere have looked. [emoji20]
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welcome
something you want to keep in mind is the word TRY !
Trying does not mean you are committed to buying it 24/7/365 and losing 1 arm, leg and first born. Its just TRYING !
I know you and others want the easy/fast answer, but again, TRY.
If you are going to shoot and play more with guns, you will need to TRY ! sorry its how it goes.
I have many different types of powders since i was TRYING various brands/types. I bought VV since at the time i never heard of it and it appeared to do what i wanted and needed at that ime. Yes, its MORE expensive than other powders, but its your choice.
If you want, TRY 1 lb of whatever and see how you like it. If you do, then look for larger cans.
good luck
Thank you.
I remember days of trying.
Getting hard to try different powder now days.
Looked all over to find some N340.
Love to try some N350 too but [emoji2373].
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Take a look at Powder Valley's website. It looks like the "V" powders are running within a dollar or three of the Alliant powders I often use for handgun reloads.
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Gonna try some 340.
Fun info...
• For SD rounds out in public, I use only factory Federal loads. (During the BE-86 introduction several years ago, an Alliant employee was saying on THR that it was developed for Federal SD ammo. Don't know that this was ever verified.)
• For my hiking ammo, where I'm much more likely to meet animals, I load Berry HHP at ~1100fps using N340. These are very accurate loads.
• In my testing of 10mmAuto powders I verified that BE-86 with 180gr edged out N340 for accuracy. Both were head and heels above some traditional 10mm powders, like Blue Dot.
• You can get a head start on any new CZ load work-up by consulting the CZF powder testing threads listed in the Reloading Directory in the stickies.
Regards
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I use N320 for competition load.
Last time I tested, SD was just 9 fps (30 rounds string with mixed range brass). @~20 degree celsius, altitude ~200m.
For Shadow 2, group size is ~25mm (3 rounds) and ~60mm (10 rounds) @ 25 meters.
The cleanest burning out of everything I have ever tried (european powders).
low flash - I don't know, never tried shooting in dark.
EDIT:
From my experience shooting with N320 loads, the pistol feels less jumpy, more like strong pressure is moving the bullet forward. With dual base powders I feel more explosion than push. Also, in my opinion (may be subjective), N320 produces less heat than dual base powders. For sure I can tell it will not leave any unburnt particles like some cheaper stuff.
Regarding the price, it is the most expensive pistol powder here in the EU also. Not a big problem as far as I can make more rounds comparing with cheaper powders and/or spend less time on cleaning.
After all, it will cost you maybe a half cent less per round if you use cheap powder.
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Also, in my opinion (may be subjective), N320 produces less heat than dual-base powders.
It's the nitroglycerine that burns so hot and eventually erodes the chamber of the barrel.
Fire 5 rounds of an N340 load and your pistol will still be room temp. Almost no heating of the barrel.
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After getting a few more books in, and downloading VV app, studying data N340 is even more interesting.
124gr and below, concerning velocity, N340 almost equals, or outperforms N350, 3N37, etc. and uses less powder to do so. Bullet type dependent.
N350, only starts pulling ahead at 130gr and above. But not by much.
Past 135gr N105 pushes out some a bit more.
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Doing a little math using N340 one can load average of 242 more rounds per pound and only sacrifice 0-40fps using berrys HHP, Seirra JHP/FMJ, X-treme, Hornady xtp, 115-135gr over using N350, or 3n37….
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For what it is worth, I use BE-86 or N340 for my 9mm loads in 124 and 147 varieties, depending upon what I can get.
Neither powder is well suited for lower velocities, so if you are looking to game the ammo for USPSA, you’d have to go with something that burns faster.
If I try and go much less than 132 PF, my standard deviation starts shooting up.
For replicating Federal HST duty type loads, both excel. Both can safely push into +P and I use both for my CZ75 based guns and my 16” PCC. My P10 likes the rounds a little hotter, so again, no issues with either powder. If you are new to reloading, both are fairly forgiving. Both will overflow or fill up a case if you double charge and both have fairly wide operating ranges. With some faster powders, you only have a few 10ths between success and disaster.
Winchester WSF is also another versatile powder that is in the neighborhood. May not be low flash, but it can make some very consistent loads, particularly in my PCC. Finding pistol data is a bit of a challenge though.
I PREFER N340. It measures better in my Dillion and my charge weights are slightly lower for comparable velocities to BE-86. Subjectively, it’s also cleaner. It also smells better (for Wobbly).
With BE-86, the powder takes longer to settle in the powder measure. If I get in a hurry when calibrating the powder measure, my loads will run hot. I generally have to throw 20-25 charges for it to settle.
I my experience, BE-86 also makes the gun run a lot hotter than N340. 3-4 mags will make the frame of my SP-01 quite hot.
In the PCC, velocities will go up approximately 100 fps (in 147 grain loads) from what they are in the pistol for both powders.
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Lots of good info here.
http://natoreloading.com/
The visuals on flash is very helpful.
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I found that recently.
He does have some good vids on it.