The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: bubbas4570 on September 21, 2024, 11:42:08 PM
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Went to the range this morning to work out some things with my various pistolas...and ended up leaving quicker than I wanted to.
Had a malfunction with the B6, cleared it, and pulled the trigger.....this cost me a barrel and recoil rod.....at least. I cannot get the slide back, and am not forcing the issue. This will be going to SAR for inspection, and hopefully, repair.......I hope that just the barrel and recoil rod is done with.......
Barrel is clear, I can see the cases primer pocket in the chamber, which is just out of battery.....and the recoil rod looks to not be correct anymore. .....really shortened my range time.
I will be contacting SAR USA to see if this can be repaired/fixed....if not I will be looking for another B6 for replacement.
My knowledge of how these run, plus the fact that I didn't feel any "danger" when the incident happened.....this gun is solid. Made to save the firer......
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??? Sounds like you may have had a Squib Load with the next round blowing it up. :(
Glad that you were not harmed in this event!
As I've said many times, the Sarsilmaz Pistols are generally very well made and perform well beyond their price point! :)
This just proves that the Sarsilmaz Pistols are made with very good materials, the Steel in particular. :)
Exactly what Ammunition were you using! ???
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??? Sounds like you may have had a Squib Load with the next round blowing it up.
Exactly what Ammunition were you using! ???
Exactly. I know of a couple instances where a squid caused this problem. I lesson for anybody experiencing a round that doesn’t fire or goes up with a soft sound - clear the weapon and run a brass rod down the barrel to clear any stuck pieces of bullet
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Do you have any pictures to post of it? I’m curious to see it.
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??? Sounds like you may have had a Squib Load with the next round blowing it up. :(
Glad that you were not harmed in this event!
As I've said many times, the Sarsilmaz Pistols are generally very well made and perform well beyond their price point! :)
This just proves that the Sarsilmaz Pistols are made with very good materials, the Steel in particular. :)
Exactly what Ammunition were you using! ???
My reloads.
First round that started the fiasco: sounded like a completely dead primer; immediate action drill: rack the slide to clear malfunction, everything went into battery normally, pulled trigger again; next round: very distinctive bang that got my attention.
Then my words were few, and not great. 8) O0
And the aftermath......
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https://imgur.com/a/ZPkxtYe
Here's to hoping this works for you guys.....I have struggled.with tech for years.
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Yup, that looks pretty bad, and it's exactly what I thought it was.
??? Sounds like you may have had a Squib Load with the next round blowing it up. :(
Primer, no Powder, driving the Bullet down the Barrel just enough to allow the next round to chamber, leading to catastrophic failure.
First round that started the fiasco: sounded like a completely dead primer; immediate action drill: rack the slide to clear malfunction, everything went into battery normally, pulled trigger again;
And that is where, things went totally wrong! Unless you are in the fight of your life, STOP and investigate when a round fails to function the Pistol properly.
Tactical training did NOT apply here.
At a minimum, the barrel will be trash, with possible damage to the frame and other bits.
IF the Slidestop Pin is intact, it may be possible to drive it out with a Punch.
You may, or may not, then be able to remove the Slide Assembly, but what you then see, won't be pretty!
In my opinion, you probably just would be better off just buying another B6, and writing this one off.
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The practice of physically looking into EVERY case after charging during the loading process cannot be stressed enough. You were lucky this time and you only trashed a gun. Guns can be replaced but fingers and eyes cannot.
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Yeah, definitely count your blessings on that one. Yikes.
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Ending to this story.......
The B6 was inspected by my local 'smith, per suggestions from SAR's gunsmith. He came back with the best report I could hope for: only the barrel was destroyed. After examining, and comparison measurements with my other B6, there were no discrepancies in the damaged frame, slide, nor any other parts that he could find. Then placing the good barrel into the damaged weapon and firing it, there were no problems encountered.
New barrel ordered from SAR. Waiting on that.
Counting myself very happy that someone else was watching over me, once again.
And making preps to pull the rest of that lot of ammo, as it has been somewhat of a problem since loading it. This bullet only functioned in the CZ clones, and that is not acceptable for me. One other thing is that it is extremely dirty, due to the lube that is on the bullets......
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while shooting a drill I had a squib, did not know it was a squib I thought it was a fail to fire did the slap and rack but got lucky as it would not go into battery. I was wearing foam plugs as well as ear muffs and did not hear the primer. I no longer double up my hearing protection as I want to be able to hear if its a squib or a fail to fire.
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And making preps to pull the rest of that lot of ammo, as it has been somewhat of a problem since loading it. This bullet only functioned in the CZ clones, and that is not acceptable for me. One other thing is that it is extremely dirty, due to the lube that is on the bullets......
In the future monitor your powder charges much more closely. That is where your problem began an ended in this situation.
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Ending to this story.......
The B6 was inspected by my local 'smith, per suggestions from SAR's gunsmith. He came back with the best report I could hope for: only the barrel was destroyed. After examining, and comparison measurements with my other B6, there were no discrepancies in the damaged frame, slide, nor any other parts that he could find. Then placing the good barrel into the damaged weapon and firing it, there were no problems encountered.
New barrel ordered from SAR. Waiting on that.
Counting myself very happy that someone else was watching over me, once again.
And making preps to pull the rest of that lot of ammo, as it has been somewhat of a problem since loading it. This bullet only functioned in the CZ clones, and that is not acceptable for me. One other thing is that it is extremely dirty, due to the lube that is on the bullets......
Glad it turned out better than I thought the damage was, and yes, you were being protected from the heavens, for sure! 8) :)
On the bright side, this incident does prove that the SAR B6 and previous B6P, are very well made and durable Pistols!
Just because they are Polymer Framed and more affordably priced, does not mean they are cheaply made.
I've always found that the Sarsilmaz Pistols perform well beyond their price point!!! :)
I love my SAR Pistols and I trust them for serious duty!!!
On a reloading note, when I am loading 9mm on my old Dillon XL650 Press, just before I seat any Bullet, I glance down the Case for Powder level, as I go to seat the Bullet.
On another note, even Factory Ammunition may sometimes produce a squib. Particularly, some "bargain" FMJ types.
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On another note, even Factory Ammunition may sometimes produce a squib.
True. I've seen Winchester WB produce a squib with my own eyes. I have it on video somewhere.
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Same here. I had a squid with Federal. Thefy had me return four boxes with the same lot number and replaced them. They seemed very concerned and wanted to test others in the same lot.
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In the future monitor your powder charges much more closely. That is where your problem began an ended in this situation.
Already done, in my mind/future reload plans. Progressive press is going to be not used, and going back to the old ways of single stage.
This is not my first rodeo with squibs (mine, others, and factory) but second that I have had damage done to a firearm with.
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For my last chapter in this story:
The barrel package was scanned in on Tuesday as being delivered to my front porch/door. No package at my house/mailbox. Not the first time the USPS has messed up at this house for me with a firearms part(s) package. Phone call made to local office, managed to get the main supervisor, found out the scanning was GPS'd at another house on a different block in my neighborhood. Obtained the address (different house number/different block) and asked the occupant if she had found my package on her doorstep. No was the answer, relayed that the next day to USPS office, and they were going to do whatever they do to retrieve said package.
Needless to say the package mysteriously arrived in my mailbox, slightly opened on one end, but everything was fine inside. Package was a SFRB, so it was easy to see if it was opened up.
Barrel installed into slide, everything put back together, and the B6 functions just as it did previously performed safety checks, without being able to live fire. I have no reservations with the new barrel being able to perform just like the original.
As jwc007 said, the SAR firearms perform above their price point.
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In the future monitor your powder charges much more closely. That is where your problem began an ended in this situation.
Already done, in my mind/future reload plans. Progressive press is going to be not used, and going back to the old ways of single stage.
This is not my first rodeo with squibs (mine, others, and factory) but second that I have had damage done to a firearm with.
Well I've been using a progressive (Dillon XL750) for several years now without any issue with squibs. I visually inspect each case after the charge die for powder. I've found being able to see into the case clearly helps so I added an LED light strip to the press and what a difference that makes. https://kmssquared.com/products/ufo-650-reloading-press-light-for-dillon-xl650-xl750
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On a reloading note, when I am loading 9mm on my old Dillon XL650 Press, just before I seat any Bullet, I glance down the Case for Powder level, as I go to seat the Bullet.
Looking into the case is not always an easy task, but most reloading press designs rotate the cartridge case to the left side during the fill process to allow powder level inspection to occur. IOW, they believe that the user is right-handed and therefore standing more to the left side of the press.
Unless you operate your press left-handed, the root cause nearly always boils down to in-press lighting. Basically, you're trying to see a dark substance inside a deep, dark hole. The solution is therefore in-press lighting.
I have tried several systems before finding a company called KMS Squared. Now I swear by them. Don't even look at cheaper systems.
https://kmssquared.com/collections
(https://i.imgur.com/6JkvTuzl.jpg)
They make their lights on self-adhesive flexible circuit board material, which you adhere to the underside of your press head. When turned ON every case is BRIGHTLY lit up like it was a movie star on opening night. I cannot recommend this solution highly enough. I've had a system installed on my XL650 for 10 years with zero issues. The link will take you to a page that shows they have systems that work on most common press systems, not just Dillon.
(https://i.imgur.com/jS4dvQRl.jpg)
Hope this helps.
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In the future monitor your powder charges much more closely. That is where your problem began an ended in this situation.
Already done, in my mind/future reload plans. Progressive press is going to be not used, and going back to the old ways of single stage.
This is not my first rodeo with squibs (mine, others, and factory) but second that I have had damage done to a firearm with.
Well I've been using a progressive (Dillon XL750) for several years now without any issue with squibs. I visually inspect each case after the charge die for powder. I've found being able to see into the case clearly helps so I added an LED light strip to the press and what a difference that makes. https://kmssquared.com/products/ufo-650-reloading-press-light-for-dillon-xl650-xl750
Mine was a Hornady LnL Ammoplant setup. I found that there are just enough hiccups in this press that it makes things "interesting", lets just leave it that way.
I tend to like to run it too fast, I have it too high up to easily check inside cases, I no longer prime on the press for anything (too many priming problems with any case), I could list more if it really didn't matter. :P ....... Yup some problems are of my own making, some are design imperfections from factory, I don't care anymore, I just won't use it=those problems solved. My tools are more valuable to me than having speed loading over single stage speeds, and that is something that I CAN make myself change.
Also, I gave up on trying to make some cast boolits work in my pistols. That is one more problem solved here. (thumbs up, if I could put one in) Back to buying either jacketed or plated for me.
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Let's put it this way, I should have stayed with my old RCBS turret press, and that would have taken care of everything for me. That was set up to make things about as fast as "I" should go. Not saying that I am retarded, but my reloading speeds should be. O0
Like I said, the Hornady system leaves just enough to make it not very effective for me. I take this blame, as I have read that some can make the LnL progressive work flawlessly for them, this just isn't happening for me....owned the press for at least 6 years now.
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I tend to like to run it too fast, I have it too high up to easily check inside cases, I no longer prime on the press for anything (too many priming problems with any case), I could list more if it really didn't matter. :P ....... Yup some problems are of my own making, some are design imperfections from factory, I don't care anymore, I just won't use it=those problems solved. My tools are more valuable to me than having speed loading over single stage speeds, and that is something that I CAN make myself change.
• People either love or hate the LNL AP. It's a great press with a long list of factory redesigns, updates, and known issues. In all fairness, I don't think the "best press" has been designed yet. They all have some quirks.
• As far a press height, the op lever grip should be at the same level as your right shoulder. This sets up up for less shoulder/ back pain, and carpal tunnel issues in the future and allows you the correct height (or very close) to see into the cases.
• You must adjust your reloading bench height for your own health and safety reasons. (The safety part has already been proven to you.) Luckily for you there's no buying involved, just some calculations, measurements and sawing. (We can discuss other aspects of reloading bench design and building if you like.)
• Most novices raised on YouTube videos do try to load too fast. Realize that reloading is not about extreme speed, but extreme quality. So slow it down. Go over to Ultimate Reloader. He shows the correct speed in all his videos. https://ultimatereloader.com/
Hope this helps.
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Wobbly- thanks for the light link - exactly what I’ve been looking for!
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Wobbly- thanks for the light link - exactly what I’ve been looking for!
Buried in the Stickies atop the Ammunition, Questions, and Handloading Techniques sub-forum is this little gem...
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85603.0