Post by: Unregistered(d) on January 09, 2002, 11:25:25 AM
Post by: Walt-Sherrill on January 09, 2002, 02:04:21 PM
I have a CZ-40B. I don't particularly like that CZ-40B and have said so several times on this forum. I don't like the trigger, even though it has been gunsmithed. Others have chimed in with the same response. Nobody tried to shut me down.
I've also, frequently, said that you ought not get too enamored of "factory" mags, as I've had more factory mags fail than "cheap" Magnum Research or Pro-Mags... Nobody tried to shut me down.
The fellow in the other message chain came out of left field with what most would consider an unreasonable complaint about an aspect of "service" that generally isn't considered service. It was shut down. That was the moderator's call.
Post by: Unregistered(d) on January 09, 2002, 02:26:51 PM
I've read plenty of your post and respect your opinons, but don't you think maybe a statement of "you could possibly slug your barrel or have it done by a gunsmith and then choose the diameter of cast bullet you can use"
would have been more helpful than his reply. I have mixed feelings about the manner in which Mike has also answered some of my questions. I'm not doubting his ability because he has done a trigger job on a 75 SA for me and it was outstanding.
Post by: ATeaM on January 09, 2002, 06:32:35 PM
CZ's are overrated !
Yep, you heard me right ! I think too many want to jump on the CZ bandwagon and sing it's praises simply because others do. It reinforces a positive image that makes them feel they made an especially good purchase, when, in reality there are many fine handguns at the same price.
Ruger is cheaper ! Not as accurate, but I've never had one fail me. My CZ fails all the time. I think the extractor, slide stop, and magazines are poorly designed. I think the magazine break is a bad idea and the "b" series trigger has too many small, breakable parts. Also, the metal used in the barrel is SUPER soft. My barrels exterior is all chewed up and gouged after only a few thousand rounds, the rifling is worn flat.
Despite all this, the thing is bleep accurate, especially considering what I paid.
There ! You happy ?!!
Post by: Walt-Sherrill on January 09, 2002, 07:18:01 PM
But honestly, he said what I was thinking when I read the original message. I just didn't put my thoughts to words.
And, yeah -- a response like you suggested might have been more useful -- but what Mike said may have been appropriate.
Mike has never been anything but helpful when I've called with a question. Amazingly helpful.
(When I had a problem with my 85 combat -- it wasn't cycling properly in DA mode... probably due to wear afer an extra stringent trigger job ... Mike and I (guided by my gunsmith) talked through the problem and he sent new parts, no charge, to see if that would fix the problem. It did. That's service: advice AND parts, free.) I've had similar responses from Taurus, once, and Rossi -- but it took a LOT LONGER to get hold of someone who would listen. With SIG and S&W I could never get in touch with a real person...
Post by: cos on January 09, 2002, 09:14:29 PM
Post by: mapdude on January 10, 2002, 12:58:24 AM
Post by: Unregistered(d) on January 10, 2002, 02:34:44 AM
Post by: NiteXtractor on January 10, 2002, 07:12:02 PM
Post by: ATeaM on January 10, 2002, 07:24:58 PM
My CZ is cleaner than a surgeons scalpel. But tell me this, have you fully stripped the slide to properly clean the extractor ? Short of sending it back to the factory, I have yet to find anyone who can.
If anyone has a copy of the armorer's manual, I would appreciate it if someone would scan the procedure and put it up here at the site. All descriptions I have heard so far are unthorough and could possibly lead to destruction of the slide. That or the chinsy parts that make up the trigger block.
As for the chewed up barrel, if I had a digital camera I would be more than happy to show what I'm talking about. So far accuracy seems unaffected so I'm not inclined to replace it. However, the deep gouges, pitting, and uneven wear are signs of soft metal which doesn't make me feel too confident.
Post by: ut83 on January 12, 2002, 07:43:42 AM
I have had problems with my Compact. Problems CZUSA and Mike had never heard of...I have voiced my complaints about my problem on the Forum and actually got help and a possible resolution for my guns problem.
I am a Moderator and bet your *ss, I for one wont kill any post or thread unless I and a whole lot of others find it unreasonable or completely full of crap. Some of those I may
keep just for the Entertainment value.
WE WELCOME EVERY OPINION, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If its screamingly and blatantly apparant someone is just raising H*LL for no reason or just to get a rise out of us, YOU
BET YOUR *SS, I am going to consider killing the thread. I guarrantee you the same would happen on any other forum on the net!
You can think, say and write what ever you want to and post it here. ANYTIME!
I gotta say this, on other forums I frequent...yes other forums. I run into the "SIGS SUCK or KIMBERS ARE CRAP!
types" all too often. These "KEYBOARD SHOOTERS" are the
greatest, they take their great wealth of experience and
tie it togethor with there vast and deep writing career and
the end result is " CZ's are CRAP"! IMO, rarely do these
types of posters have any or enough experience to back up
what they post and when you call them on it..either they
just continue in the same B*LLSH*T direction or they dont
reply. Anyone who will base a completely negative opinion on a Gun maker over one problem with a certain gun or model, has the right to feel this way and post whatever he wants.
Everytime this happens...watch for the process happening.
They get called on it, as their arrogance and ignorance gets
them shot down everytime. EVERYTIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
I welcome any and all response to this post. Why? Because
I believe in what I write, dont blow smoke and welcome anyone to "call" me on it!
Shoot well
By the way...I know of a couple of people take there extractors out to clean them. Ask your question where it
will get seen and you should get the answer you seek.
Also, If your barrel is that bad...CZUSA will take care of it. Sh*t happens to guns. IMO, I Dont think millions of people from all over the world would consider the CZ as good a gun
as they do, if your problem was common, I believe you would have to agree with this point.
As late as the USA is picking up on them..they are being put on the list of "top ten guns of the century".... by respected and unbiased writers and shooters all over the country.
You may think they are overrated....you can say what you want...I think they are underrated. You can say what you want to me. Welcome to the forum and its diversity.
Respectfully, Eric/ut83
Shoot well
Post by: ATeaM on January 12, 2002, 07:32:21 PM
I said they were overated due to internet hype. It starts with "Hey this is a good gun for the money !" and ends with, "Hey, my CZ shoots two inch groups at 100 yards and bests my friends $$$$ custom gun everytime !!".
Newbies get caught up in a frenzy and suggest all sorts of ridiculous bullbleep, and I agree with you, rarely do they have enough experience to know what the hell their talking about.
I've learned about my guns faults and plusses from first hand experience, not based on some guys opinion on the internet. Nor do I care about some bullbleep writer's opinion for that matter. The range I go to has been renting out CZ's since before the military contract surplus made them affordable and popular. Everything I've learned about the gun has been dealing with these guys, and seeing what I can expect into the future. The CZ is not as perfect as everyone suggests. Far from it. And I'll be bleeped if some fool assumes it's because the gun wasn't cleaned regularly. Please.
Can you go to any gun store in your area and buy a replacement part for your CZ that day ? Nope. Bet you can for a Glock, Sig, or H&K. But if you own those guns ? You won't need to be replacing parts as fast as on the CZ.
Will the slide stop break ? Yep. The range replaced it 4 times before they gave up on CZ's. I've only had to replace it once.
It's a good gun for the money, but it's not perfect nor is it the best 9mm out there. If it was ? The police and military would be using them. CZ was used in our military trials and did not prove to be as stellar as the internet hype suggests.
Post by: Walt-Sherrill on January 12, 2002, 08:08:57 PM
"Can you go to any gun store in your area and buy a replacement part for your CZ that day ? Nope. Bet you can for a Glock, Sig, or H&K. But if you own those guns ? You won't need to be replacing parts as fast as on the CZ."
That's not been my experience. Unless your dealer or gunsmith is a factory service center, you'll find that most gunsmiths send off to the factory or (more likely) Brownells for the parts. That's why most repairs take a week or two... they're waiting for the parts to come in.
"Will the slide stop break ? Yep. The range replaced it 4 times before they gave up on CZ's. I've only had to replace it once. "
Could be. I've HEARD of this happening. but haven't seen it in my guns (3 CZs over the past couple of years) which have been shot in excess of 10,000 rounds. Nor in my friends CZ...
Early on I heard of this slide stop problem and talked to the CZ gunsmith about it. He said he hadn't seen it, but said if I was concerned, get a heavier recoil spring. I did, but didn't like it.
"It's a good gun for the money, but it's not perfect nor is it the best 9mm out there. If it was ? The police and military would be using them. CZ was used in our military trials and did not prove to be as stellar as the internet hype suggests."
Sorry, but I think you've completely missed the target on this shot.
You apparently don't pay much attention to how the military and police procurement process is done. Its generally more about politics than function.
Glock sells a lot of guns to police departments because they FOCUSED on police departments. They know that MOST cops aren't gun saavy and tend to do stupid things with guns. Glock knows how to talk the the "politically correct" thinkers who buy for police departments. Glock designed around this.
S&W has sold a lot of guns to police departments, too. Do you think the typical S&W semi-auto is as good as a Glock or SIG? SIG sells some to the US Military and european militarys, but nothing like the numbers that Beretta sells.
(Do you really think the Beretta 92 is a better gun than the SIG 9mms or the Glock 9mms?)
Nope. Berettas are good guns, but its really politics. Pure and simple.
One reason that the CZ wasn't adopted by the Communist world as a military gun under the Soviet Bloc was politics -- within the Soviet Bloc. Do you REALLY think the Soviets would acknowledge a superior design from a satellite country?
And until just a few years ago, most western nations wouldn't or couldn't buy guns from Czechoslovakia (now the Czech Republic.)
It isn't always the best gun that gets the contract. In fact, I'd be willing to say, its SELDOM the best gun that gets the contract.
Post by: ATeaM on January 12, 2002, 10:34:07 PM
You took my original response, which was partly in jest(as most understood), and responded with some sort of rhetorical cry baby fest that has nothing to do with comments I've made on this or other boards. Which is why I missed it in the first place, I didn't have a clue what the hell you were talking about.
You like CZ's ? That's great man, so do I. You think Kahr would make a great race gun ? Super. Maybe next you'll tell me what your SHTF bug out bag contains, or why .223 is better than .308, or or...whatever. Get a grip.
I have to apologize for allowing myself to get dragged into this bullbleep. There's always going to be the brand whore who see's/speaks/hears no evil of their gun, and jumps on anyone who's had a bad experience. Generally novices with lot's to learn. Save your breath.
Walt, I own a few 9mm's. I probably shoot my CZ the most and it's without a doubt the most accurate for the money. I've had parts break on it, it's had a lot of jams, and it doesn't have the best fit or finish. That doesn't mean it's a bad gun, just a few things I would change which are mostly solved in the COMBAT model. I agree, politics plays a lot in firearms selection, but lay out a CZ next to a Beretta and a Sig and it clear to me why both those guns cost $100 to $200 more, their fit, finish, and build quality is superior. In my hands they've both proven to be much more reliable with springs and parts that last a lot longer.
Post by: ut83 on January 13, 2002, 10:44:27 AM
I have the balls to say "I am wrong!" IMO, that takes more balls, than the cheap and wrongly placed shots I took at you earlier.
I will tell you, if I may? I have been shooting and such my whole life. I have a fairly diverse background regarding guns
of all types. I have never been involved in competition shooting or any organized events.
The forum thing is not really new to me...yet at times, even with my background and all, when I read posts on this forum and others...my feelings are " I feel like I have been on an Island for the past 35 years". In other words..."what have I been missing?"
Between the "brand whores" and the "keyboard shooters" I run into here and there and the occasional negative comment about our "forum" on the others....I get worked up and start to take offense to it.
I can say honestly, I do a reasonable and accurate job if I comment to anyone...regardless of what the topic is relating too. I know enough to not comment at all, if I dont have personal experience regarding a specific topic. But.......
At times my judgement slips slightly (like you didnt realize that?) and my comments lack proper direction and seem to
go off into left field about 20 or so miles. Mostly from the completely unbelievable and negative comments I read ... This was the case when I went off on you. I will say "I am wrong and sorry for my comments."
I hope this makes sense to you...its not an excuse..just an explanation. I wont make excuses for my already stupid behavior. This would bury myself in an already big hole.
Take it for what its worth and as always, shoot well
Respectfully, Eric
Post by: JUNGLE MAN MOD on January 13, 2002, 03:03:21 PM
Post by: ATeaM on January 13, 2002, 08:23:25 PM
Post by: ut83 on January 13, 2002, 10:02:26 PM
Shoot well
Post by: CZ75ID on January 18, 2002, 08:49:19 PM
I don't mind it, but others might.
If you want to talk from the hip..Hardcores is the place. Pull no punches.
ATEAM.. send your gun back to CZ..It IS NOT NORMAL for a CZ to be like that.
Call Marty and tell him you want a new gun. he might jump on me for telling you, but
then again..this place sees a lot of potential customers who see your posts have and
will think ALL Czs are like yours..
I bloody well mean it! Get a CZ that works, and then lets hear you story on the new gun.
You can't be blamed for trashing CZs, when your is seemingly a P*S. I had a Rossi.357
that was supposed to be the IN THING for revolvers. ported and all.
worse customer service than EAA> it was totally Junk.
Problematic guns are bad for the otherwise outstanding/good CZUB image.
satisfied or reimbursed customers are quite better.If any problems or praise is
to be shown about these guns.it will wind up on CZF.
Should you have a problem or such. WE want to know. NO Posts get censored or
deleted by Mods. only i can delete posts. If there is a problem post or poster.
just contact me.
Normally things have been real good here. Big boys and girls that can handle some
criticism.
Call 1-800-955-4486 and ask for Marty. tell him your problem.WE have been thru this
before,,people as members with guns they can't stand..totally unacceptable to
pay good money for a gun that is a lemon. lets get you back on track.
Think about the CZ40B, a gun that seems unstoppable at this point in our experience.
40B owners here can attest to that.
CZS are not perfect..no gun is. They just seem perfect for ME.
(http://cz40.net.50megs.com/Guns/MyGuns3/40hammer.jpg)
The CZ75 didn't compete in the 9mm trials. it would have won
yes most CZs do shoot 2 inch groups..and the 75SA outshot the
Les Baer and SIGP210-2 in tests. so what??
Unlike some companies.,CZ doesn't give away guns to cops...
like with your CZ probs, Sometimes The Truth Hurts.
Contact me asap.
No CZs are not perfect, but they are wayy CZexy!!
Post by: ptshaffer on February 03, 2002, 04:46:20 PM
Post by: Radom on February 03, 2002, 11:48:53 PM
I only own two CZ pistols, and I have not had these for very long. I'm not going to talk about them though...
My favorite gun store is a CZ stocking dealer. This place is VERY BIG, roughly the size of a football field (with more security cameras than I have ever seen in one place too). Anyways, this store has literally thousands of rifles and shotguns and hundreds of handguns. It is better than a gunshow, because there is actually a sort of organizational principle at work!
I love to walk around in there for hours. You can see a company's entire product line or compare say, the major models of 9mm from the major manufacturers.
When you compare the CZ product line to what else is available, they compare VERY favorably. (Notice I have not mentioned price). Obviously, none of us will ever get to shoot every gun we would like to try, so we must generalize and make inferences. Fortunately, simple visual inspection and disassembly show the following about CZ products in general: superb fit, excellent and consistent finish, absence of visible tool marks (only minor ones on interior surfaces, if at all), quality and craftsmanship evident in all wooden stocks and grips, great ergonomics, logical safeties, smooth actions, etc., etc., etc.
People may claim that this is not "scientific," but have you ever seen a seriously flawed firearm that would fit the above description? Every company lets the occaisional dog out of the factory doors. (When this becomes the norm, we shooting enthusiasts usually employ joshing terms like "suck" or "blow".) I am no expert, but I feel like I can tell whether or not a firearm is well-made.
Real life story: Today I saw a fellow who was about to buy a used Daewoo 9mm. I started talking to him, and I found out that he wanted "a decent 9mm for around $300." I showed him the new CZ 75B Mils and told him about mine. He left the store with his new CZ about 45 minutes later. This is the second time this has happened to me (new Ruger the first time).
On a final note, I doubt that CZ makes the VERY BEST anything, but I do honestly wonder about some of the rifles. At the same time, CZ makes a gun better than I can shoot for the same price as indifferent/mediocre guns.
Post by: Walt-Sherrill on February 04, 2002, 09:59:04 AM
They're both very good guns. I got my used DP-51 in a trade, so if I were to have to spend real dollars, I'd probably go with the CZ, 'cause you're likely to get better warranty support.
But don't think the Daewoo isn't a good gun.
Its very good. And mine is a real tackdriver. (As I noted elsewhere on the CZ-Forum, I used it in a local IDPA match recently and it performed very well.) I'll do a comparison of performance between the CZ-85 Combat and the DP-51 in a few days. (Would've done it yesterday but my wife was sick and I stayed home from the range...)
Small, light, accepts readily available (S&W 59 series) hi-cap mags, marvelous tri-action trigger, with a safety that works in all modes. Feels a lot like a SIG and points well.
Post by: yuppiejr on May 04, 2002, 06:16:01 PM
I noticed at most ranges, the officer will eject open the slide, check for a chambered round, eject the magazine and then hand the firearm to the renter. The renter's first move is usually to peek in the chamber themselves, install the empty magazine and then operate the slide release on an empty magazine. (perhaps explaing premature wear of slide stops in some CZ range pistols?)
In contrast, most shooters with their own firearms that I've watched will HOLD the slide when closing it unloaded.
Am I missing something? I was not taught either way so I had tended to let the slide slam shut on automatics even with an empty magazine. After getting the advice with my new 75 D PCR purchase I have always hand guided the slide home on an empty mag.
Thoughts?
Post by: CZ75ID on May 04, 2002, 10:39:15 PM
'running the slide forward'
if you do that in a stressful period..i.e burglar in house.
you could upset the cycle.Like short-stroking an 870..
and then you are not going to like it.
Just my opinion..
Sounds like the Range Officer is an picky type..trying to
catch someone with a loaded gun, rather than doing it
correctly.
eject magazine, clear chamber, press checking is for those
who need to inspect..if they are not in constant control
of the weapon.
You guys do it your way..i'll do it the way i was trained.
I've seen my share of "press Check" ADs..and injuries.
if the goal is a "safe" empty chamber weapon..why risk
the press check?
SAfe Shooting!
Post by: Radom on May 05, 2002, 12:46:39 AM
I own three CZ pistols. Including my friends', that brings my total experience with these pistols to 6 guns representing 5 models.
THERE IS NO SLIDE STOP PROBLEM! CZs come with fairly weak stock springs. In particular, the stock spring of the 97B is VERY weak (only 13 lbs.). Any premature wear of the slide stop is the fault of the weak spring, NOT the slide stop per se. After all, either the stop is made of steel or not...