The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: Lobo_79 on July 18, 2010, 03:59:54 PM
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I'm just acquired a slightly used CZ75B in .40S&W. I occasionally have problems with the extractor leaving a spent round in the chamber. I've been shooting WWB 180 gr FMJ range ammo. So my first real option beyond a good cleaning is to switch ammo. I'll try that next weekend for sure. But, I'm curious. Are extractor problems common with the CZ75? This is my first CZ and so far I really like the way the gun handles but I need to get a handle on the reliability issues soonest.
The gun probably has a total of 400 rounds through it. Maybe a break in issue?
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I can't speak for the 40cal in particular, but my stainless 75B 9mm has never had an extraction problem after a few thousand rounds through it. If you still have problems after complete cleaning you can try a Wolff extra power extractor spring.
Depending on how many rounds have been through yours you may want to consider a full set of springs. I like to replace the springs in a used pistol when I get them just to be certain they're in working order. Although if you know the gun and previous owner well enough it may not be necessary.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/CZ/75%20Series/cID1/mID16/dID91#841
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Around 2002/2003 there were some guns with a problematic extractor spring. It was apparently underpowered and as soon as the gun got some gunk under the extractor they would start getting stovepipe jams. The cure was to replace the stock extractor spring with an extra power Wolff spring and a thorough cleaning in the channel under the extractor.
My own 2003 75b suffered this malady but the spring change cured it. I've had absolutely no problems since.
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CZ75B in .40 here... no problems with extraction. Unless you count the times when ammo ejects and lands 20 feet or more away.
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I can't speak for the 40cal in particular, but my stainless 75B 9mm has never had an extraction problem after a few thousand rounds through it. If you still have problems after complete cleaning you can try a Wolff extra power extractor spring.
Depending on how many rounds have been through yours you may want to consider a full set of springs. I like to replace the springs in a used pistol when I get them just to be certain they're in working order. Although if you know the gun and previous owner well enough it may not be necessary.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/CZ/75%20Series/cID1/mID16/dID91#841
Thanks for the good advice. I've given it a good cleaning and I'll check it out next weekend. I have to admit I like this gun even though I'm primarily a Beretta 92FS/92G Vertec fan. The CZ has been an easy shooting transition. I would have preferred a 9mm versus the .40 S&W but the .40 is starting to grow on me.
I'll also try the new extractor spring. I also usually swap out springs on gun trades because you never know what the truth is about total round count. In this case I trust the guy I got the CZ from. The gun is really clean and it doesn't show the telltale signs of high round count.
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I'm in a similar situation with a CZ52 I'm thinking of to buying. A friend of mine owns the pistol, I've shot a few times and I know he takes care of his weapons. I'll get a set of Wolff springs for it when I buy it, but I''l keep them packed away until it's time for a rebuild or one of them decides to break..
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I hope it isn't common. I just bought a used 75B in 40 S&W. I haven't shot it yet so I don't know for sure. I have owned several CZs and have found them to be exceptionally reliable guns.
Out
West
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I hope it isn't common. I just bought a used 75B in 40 S&W. I haven't shot it yet so I don't know for sure. I have owned several CZs and have found them to be exceptionally reliable guns.
Out
West
I ordered the Wolff +25% extractor spring yesterday. I'm planning on changing the spring as soon as it comes in and trying another 100 rounds. I'll post my progress with this science project.
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If the WWB you're referring to is the 100 round Value Pak, you should know that this ammo has a documented history of undersize rim diameters in 9mm. I had three failures to extract with this 9mm ammo in a Bersa pistol, all three rounds from the same box. All three remained completely in the chamber but readily fell out when the gun was pointed upwards, indicating the extractor had ridden right over the rim without engaging it. I've fired a 600 round mix of other ammo in this gun without a failure. I haven't heard of it in the .40, but on the basis of this experience, if you want a good diagnosis, switch ammo. The Value Pack could be giving you a false reading.
I decline to blame the gun for a failure when shooting any WW Value Pack ammo. FWIW
Jer
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If the WWB you're referring to is the 100 round Value Pak, you should know that this ammo has a documented history of undersize rim diameters in 9mm. I had three failures to extract with this 9mm ammo in a Bersa pistol, all three rounds from the same box. All three remained completely in the chamber but readily fell out when the gun was pointed upwards, indicating the extractor had ridden right over the rim without engaging it. I've fired a 600 round mix of other ammo in this gun without a failure. I haven't heard of it in the .40, but on the basis of this experience, if you want a good diagnosis, switch ammo. The Value Pack could be giving you a false reading.
I decline to blame the gun for a failure when shooting any WW Value Pack ammo. FWIW
Jer
It has? Where?
I've had no 'documented failures' with WWB, other than a very occasional FTF due to a hard primer and I've shot 1000s of rounds of it through various Sigs, CZs, Bersas, Hi-Powers etc. I'd be interested to see the 'documented' stuff; are you sure it wasn't just a bad batch?
There's nothing wrong with trying different ammo, but there's little point in throwing the baby out with the bath water over 3 rounds.
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I've participated in threads on another forum where a member had extraction problems with the WWB 9mm and when he miked the rim diameter and thickness, they were undersize. I have personally had the three failures I mentioned above, all from the same box, and have witnessed two misfires and a squib load from two different boxes on the same day that could not be blamed on the guns involved. Another member found bullets of different ogives in the same box. On the three that failed to extract in my pistol, examination of the extraction system and even comparison with a new extractor and spring showed the system to be operating correctly. The extraction failures were not the gun's fault.
I usually offend someone every time I relate these things, because the VP ammo is very popular. I buy as much WWB VP ammo as anybody else and I think it's perfectly decent range ammo. But I'm pretty well convinced for my own use that the components that don't make the grade for their premium ammo or military contract ammo wind up in the VP ammo. I think Federal does the same thing with its Champion ammo. IMHO. Based on my reading and experience I refuse to blame a failure on a gun that is shooting VP until the gun repeats the error with other ammo, or unless there is a visible mechanical failure in the gun.
So whenever a forum member quotes a failure with the WWB VP ammo I advise him to try other ammo before blaming the gun and spending a lot of money on what may be unnecessary repairs.
Sorry to offend.
Jer
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I've participated in threads on another forum where a member had extraction problems with the WWB 9mm and when he miked the rim diameter and thickness, they were undersize. I have personally had the three failures I mentioned above, all from the same box, and have witnessed two misfires and a squib load from two different boxes on the same day that could not be blamed on the guns involved. Another member found bullets of different ogives in the same box. On the three that failed to extract in my pistol, examination of the extraction system and even comparison with a new extractor and spring showed the system to be operating correctly. The extraction failures were not the gun's fault.
I usually offend someone every time I relate these things, because the VP ammo is very popular. I buy as much WWB VP ammo as anybody else and I think it's perfectly decent range ammo. But I'm pretty well convinced for my own use that the components that don't make the grade for their premium ammo or military contract ammo wind up in the VP ammo. I think Federal does the same thing with its Champion ammo. IMHO. Based on my reading and experience I refuse to blame a failure on a gun that is shooting VP until the gun repeats the error with other ammo, or unless there is a visible mechanical failure in the gun.
So whenever a forum member quotes a failure with the WWB VP ammo I advise him to try other ammo before blaming the gun and spending a lot of money on what may be unnecessary repairs.
Sorry to offend.
Jer
No offense taken, I was just surprised to hear that it had been a problem, since in my experience WWB is one of the more trouble free of the cheap range ammos. I wonder if your buddy just got a bad batch though. I've never really had much in the way of problems shooting it through anything.
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Seems to me the whole WWB 9mm undersize, or not issue is scope drift. The OP's question was pertaining to his 75B in 40 S&W.
Out
West
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...The OP's question was pertaining to his 75B in 40 S&W...
After giving it a good cleaning I put another hundred rounds through it this weekend. I switched to Monarch .40 S&W 180 gr FMJ ammo to try something different. I had one case out of a hundred where it didn't extract the empty round. That was better than the previous week where I had about 6 FTEs out of a 100 with the WWB 180 gr. FMJ.
I bought an extra power extractor spring from Wolff and I'll give that a try this coming weekend. My gun was used when I got it but it didn't seem to have very many rounds through it. It acts like a simple break in issue but I'll add the extra power spring anyway.
Today I installed the Wolff +25% extractor spring. It'll be an interesting next range visit for sure. The new spring is seriously stiffer than the original. In fact it was a two person job to reinstall the extractor with the new spring. I used the extractor punch I got from CZ Custom as a guide to reinstall the pin. This procedure worked well. I suspect the new extractor would now rip a chunk out of the case rim before it would fail to extract. We'll see, details to follow.
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Very interesting. I have a new CZ 75B in .40 and I have had several FTE's after breaking it in with over 1000 rounds and several cleanings.
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Very interesting. I have a new CZ 75B in .40 and I have had several FTE's after breaking it in with over 1000 rounds and several cleanings.
The extractor spring change solved my problem. I tested the new spring last weekend with the three types of ammo I had on hand firing more than 100 rounds without issue. After I swapped out the spring it was obvious the original spring was weak. It was extremely difficult to pivot the extractor with the +25% Wolff spring installed. The original spring on the other hand could be easily pivoted with finger pressure on the extractor.
My science project isn't over though. Fixing the extractor spring pointed the way to a weak recoil spring. In the 100 rounds I fired I had one instance of a FTF that was easily overcome by tapping the slide into battery. So it's back to Wolff for their 16 # recoil spring, and off to the range to make sure I got all the bugs out of this great gun.
I wasn't bothered by having to do this work on a used gun. After all springs are like fan belts. They need changing periodically before they fail completely. I'm not sure how I'd react if I had bought my CZ75B new.
If you'd like to try the Wolff +25% extractor spring PM me with your address and I'll send you one. I bought 3 so I have at least one extra.
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The CZ Custom Shop says it uses Win White Box to test fire after gun work.
I've never had any problems with it either.
My 9mm had a few extraction problems that were cured with the Xtra power extracter spring.
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Just looked at some prior posts and tried to do a search under FAQ and Home Gunsmithing to find some step by step on replacing the extractor spring on a 75B and I found nothing in either place. Any tips to where I can review the step by step procedure? I find "bits and pieces" of info but nothing that goes from start to finish...I'd appreciate it mucho.
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Just looked at some prior posts and tried to do a search under FAQ and Home Gunsmithing to find some step by step on replacing the extractor spring on a 75B and I found nothing in either place. Any tips to where I can review the step by step procedure? I find "bits and pieces" of info but nothing that goes from start to finish...I'd appreciate it mucho.
Try this one: http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=14695.0
But...I found it easier to drive the extractor pin all the way out using the extractor punch available on the CZ Custom site. I installed a Wolff XP spring and it was much easier to install if you use the punch as a guide to line up the pin on re-assembly. As it was it was a two person job - for me at least - to install the extra power spring. It was not difficult but it was also obvious why I was having extractor difficulties with the original spring. It was seriously weak compared to the new one.
This, in turn, led me to another observation. When using the extra power extractor spring it makes sense to also switch to the 16# recoil spring. The two together resolved all of my extractor problems.
Good luck...it's pretty easy to do this your self.
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Thanks, Lobo...looks like something I can give a try...
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My 0.02, coming from personal experience and observations:
Had erratic extraction on Shadow - works 100% for a couple of range trips, works not but stovepipeing alot.
Pulled extractor out. I drove extractor pin from top of the slide down, not all the way but till extractor fell out, with spring. Spring was weakish, and worn on outside of coils, made me think it was larger than needed in overal diameter and was binding/getting stuck due to much friction. New +25% spring (from czcustom) was installed, gun failed chambering test - spring was longer than factory and got fully compressed on installation, it could not compress anymore, extractor would not pivit. Pin, extractor and spring are back out, spring is cut to match factory lengh, all installed back. All tests went fine.
I also used nail polishing emery board to polish extractor's top and bottom surfaces, cleaned cavity in slide and claw as much as I could (they were clean, actually). Also, thou gun was bought brand new, I was surprized to see extractor being 'three dot' one.
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...New +25% spring (from czcustom) was installed, gun failed chambering test - spring was longer than factory and got fully compressed on installation, it could not compress anymore, extractor would not pivot...
When I installed my +25% extractor spring it was extremely difficult to pivot the extractor via normal methods, and yes, the new spring is longer. But, I could chamber a round ok, and on the range, the extractor worked fine. I had one instance of a FTRB condition and the new recoil spring resolved that problem. Now the extractor will create a pile of empty brass even though it's extremely difficult to pivot it by hand. The old extractor could be pivoted with your finger nail. Clearly, each experience is different. In my case it was the combination of the extractor and recoil springs that solved my problem.
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I didn't pivot extractor by hand but used wooden chopstick to push with and test it :D
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I didn't pivot extractor by hand but used wooden chopstick to push with and test it :D
Copy. I used the end of a Nylon tooth brush and it still wasn't easy. It seems to have taken the extra force of the new recoil spring to ensure the slide returns to battery. Although I'm pleased with how the gun is performing I'm thinking there is now a bit of a new break in period. Since this is basically a range gun for me I'm going to continue evaluating the reliability. The extractor on my Kahr PM9 works very much the same way.
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I have had the same experience with the WWB also. A new extractor spring helped a lot, but a new extractor solved the rest of this isssue. And I had similar problems in both .40 and 9mm.
Love the price of the WWB but hate the hassles, so when I'm shooting a CZ I shoot something else.