The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: fimbriatus on October 20, 2010, 04:47:33 AM
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I am going to get a 75b or 75b SA in the near future and had a few questions. Is there noticeably less recoil with the SA? I will be using the gun at the range and for home defense, but don't carry. Any suggestions on DA/SA vs SA only. Thank you.
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I can't speak with any authority as I'm new to CZs and handguns for that matter. Here's a link to my post asking about what to buy -- I hope it helps as it did help me.
http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=33373.msg184300#msg184300 (http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=33373.msg184300#msg184300)
In the end I bought a 75B in .40 S&W so I could (and did) by a 9mm down conversion barrel from EFK Firedragon. So I now have one handgun that can be set up to fire two calibers. I just took it to the local indoor range last Saturday. The gun was everything these guys told me it would be. I went with a friend of my who owns several handguns and he is enamored with my CZ. His older Sig looked like some form of Klingon weapon next to the lines of a CZ.
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I guess one of the questions to ask is your familiarity with DA/SA guns vs. SA guns and how comfortable you are with either one.
some people I know don't like to have gun that is cocked and locked, others wouldn't have it any other way.
Performance wise, I find both guns similar in their factory configuration. SA in both guns have a long creep and camming of the hammer.
DA can be heavy and little gritty until worn in and some people never get used to the longer DA stroke.
Also I would factor in how much ammo do you plan on going through or do you reload, and is this your only defense gun.
both guns are nice and shoot very well. The 75SA has different features than the DA/SA 75B.
the beavertail is different, the mag release is different and the slide profile is different.
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Thanks guys. Because the slide profile is different on the SA, I have heard that creates less recoil and allows for a faster followup shot. I assume the difference in recoil is negligible?
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I have both. There might be a small difference in recoil, but I personally don't notice it.
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Thanks again. I decided to go with the single action, I don't carry, so I don't have a need for da/sa, plus I like the beavertail on the sa better.
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You know you can get it in .40s&w and a 9mm conversion barrel to give you 2 calibers with one gun, right?
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Yes, thanks Cesar, I am partial to 9mm, mainly because of the price.
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For those worried about cost, I'd suggest looking at the cost of reloading, and the savings in doing so. If you can put the cash in up front, the savings are huge. Figure about $450 for a full single stage reloading kit with powder, primers, bullets, and brass. This is for people who haven't been policing their brass at the range. In less than 2500 rounds you'll recover the full investment. At that point, you'll be shooting 40 for about $0.13/rnd. 9mm for about $0.11/rnd. I'm pricing in a coated bullet, not lead. Look at the reloading thread on this site, you can learn a lot.
With Wolf 180 gr 40 @ $279/1000 delivered, I'm saving bunches and my wife doesn't complain nearly as much when I go shooting.
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I reload and went with progressive from the start, never done it before. Whole setup with all the bits and pieces, caliper, scale, a couple of loading books, bullet puller etc - cost me just under $600. I paid for the setup after loading 3000rds. But then, I shoot 1500rds a month on average. I feel I'm low on ammo if I have less than 4K rds on hands. Some people on here may not be shooting more than 150-300rds a month; reloading may not be worth it for them. On the other hand, some people shoot 100K+ rds a year...
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I am going to get a 75b or 75b SA in the near future and had a few questions. Is there noticeably less recoil with the SA? I will be using the gun at the range and for home defense, but don't carry. Any suggestions on DA/SA vs SA only. Thank you.
The 75B and 75B SA have the same recoil as they are the same platform (pistol). If you're concerned about reducing recoil, you may want to look at the next generation CZ--- The SP-01 platform. It is heavier and designed in a way that dramatically reduces felt recoil. I just found out for the first time this week after purchasing a Shadow (A SP-01 with some extras) and I've never fired a more comfortable and accurate gun in my life.
Give ya an example, my first day shooting it, I fired 270 rounds at 15yds. and EVERY shot was in the black. Tomorrow, it'll be 200, this time I'll either speed it up at 15 yds. and/or move the target out to 25 yds!!! ;D
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I can't speak with any authority as I'm new to CZs and handguns for that matter. Here's a link to my post asking about what to buy -- I hope it helps as it did help me.
http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=33373.msg184300#msg184300 (http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=33373.msg184300#msg184300)
In the end I bought a 75B in .40 S&W so I could (and did) by a 9mm down conversion barrel from EFK Firedragon. So I now have one handgun that can be set up to fire two calibers. I just took it to the local indoor range last Saturday. The gun was everything these guys told me it would be. I went with a friend of my who owns several handguns and he is enamored with my CZ. His older Sig looked like some form of Klingon weapon next to the lines of a CZ.
CZ's a beauty and a performer. Ever had any problems using the conversion barrel? FTE for example? If CZ is like Glock, you can only convert from .40 to 9mm, not the other way around. Correct?
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CZ's a beauty and a performer. Ever had any problems using the conversion barrel? FTE for example? If CZ is like Glock, you can only convert from .40 to 9mm, not the other way around. Correct?
Yes I had a stovepipe but it was most likely my fault -- maybe you can answer that question for me. My trip to the range was mainly to try out my new 75B 40S&W -- which to no surprise performed flawlessly. We were packing up to leave when I realized I hadn't tried my 9mm down conversion barrel. As I took off the slide to swap out barrels my memory was someone posted they were able to fire 9mm using the stock .40 cal recoil spring, so I took the path of least resistance and left the stock spring in. I only shot 20 rounds of 9mm that day but I did have the one stovepipe I refer to.
So I don't want to say it was problematic until I try it with the 14# Wolff spring I bought for 9mm. According to the Wolff site the stock .40 spring is 16# so that's why I write it off to my fault.
I'll try to remember to re-post after my next range trip with the 14# spring installed.
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Seems logical, you gotta watch which springs go with which barrel and caliber. Keep us posted. Since I have a 9mm 75B SA...mabe, I'll just have to get another one in .40??? Is the recoil alot more compared to the 9mm in this gun?
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Roger,
BTW I forgot to answer your other question -- yes, I believe you're correct when you say you can only convert down .40 to 9mm and not the other way around (or up as it were). It was explained to me that an up conversion would ultimately lead to a barrel that was too thin in order to fit through the original 9mm upper. I'm exposing my lack of knowledge here as I don't know what the term is for the hole (bushing perhaps?) in the slide for the barrel. :-[
As to your question "I'll just have to get another one in .40????" -- well of course, that goes without saying!
As to recoil, yes .40's more but I wouldn't quantify it as significantly more than the 9mm.
My original thought process for buying the 75B in .40 was so I could shoot less expensive 9mm via the down conversion barrel while still being able to have a .40 for home defense.
I hope to get to the range this Saturday with my 75B setup (w/ correct spring) for 9mm so I'll report back.
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Very good, thanks for your reply and look forward to your report. Just another question regarding the shooting differences between the 9mm and .40 in our 75B pistols. Recoil is one thing, sure, but what about muzzle flip with the 75B using .40...considerably more flip than the 9mm?
Coming from Glock, I can tell you shooting .40 is no fun at all...where as 9mm is. Just wondering if the all steel 75B is able to prevent alot of that notorious crazy snappiness and muzzle flip of the .40S&W????
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The answers to your questions are yes and yes.
Muzzle flip/snap is more for the .40 than the 9mm as you'd expect. However the answer to your second question is why I didn't say significantly more (of course "significantly more" is subjective). The all steel CZ75B is awesome in this respect, I can't say enough about the 75B.
Before I continue my conscience leads me to insert my standard disclaimer here: poster is a newbie, while he's a nice guy actual performance may vary. I've only fired 500 rounds down range in my entire pistol career to date.
In order to put my definition of "significantly more" in context, my run up to purchasing the CZ included rental guns at the range (some in 9mm some .40): SW M&P, Glock, HK USP, Sig 226, and Beretta 92FS. Firing a few of these in .40 sealed my decision that I needed to buy a 9mm as my first handgun -- or so I thought. The reason being I didn't think I could or wanted to deal with the extra muzzle flip of the .40.
To make a short story longer, I finally got my hands on a rental 75BD in 9mm and immediately fell in love. I soon stumbled on the down coversion barrel option and made the decision to buy a 75B .40 assuming if it was too much I'd have the 9mm to fall back on. I am very glad I made the call as the .40 is awesome and I can't wait to run the kinks out of the 9mm setup too!
As you can see I love my 75B ;D
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Hey, welcome to the CZ fan club! I wish I had really cool guns to "try before I buyed" (not good English, I know) Are you in Kali as in Kalifornia? For such an anti-gun state sounds like they have some good ranges.
Thanks for describing your experiences, you're pretty good, you may have just sold me on going out and getting a 75B .40 (mabe, I'll trade my 75B SA 9mm for the same in .40S&W) Your whole idea of the conversion barrel is a good one, gives you that flexibility as you said, I just hope there are no functional problems as a result. i.e. FTE due to the different sizes of barrel and ammo in relationship to the extractor. (You're already aware of the differing spring weights per different caliber. But, if all works well as planned, you've got yourself two guns! Sweet.
Check out Angus in action CZ style!
La?titia Daguenel / Angus Hobdell Championnat Europe 07 IPSC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXJrgugePI&feature=related#)
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Thanks for the hearty welcome, this is a great community of users.
I too "just hope there are no functional problems as a result."! Hopefully we'll know more after this weekend, I need a pass from the wife to visit the range this Saturday though so we'll see. After I decided to buy the .40 there was no turning back, especially at the relatively low cost of the conversion barrel and 9mm mags to gain a second caliber with the same gun.
Yes kali in czkali does reference the greatly tarnished state of Kalifornia. There's a lot to be said there but we'll leave that one alone for now.
I too was shocked when I learned from a local gun shop I could walk off the street into the local range, rent various handguns, all without proving I knew the slightest thing about handguns -- in Kalifornia none the less! Mind you I had talked with my buddies beforehand and of course researched the inerrant truth of the internet (aka AlGoreNet).This was exactly what I needed to help me make my decision.
Ranges aren't as close as I'd like -- indoor range is good at only 20 minutes away, the better outdoor ranges are 50 plus minutes.
BTW Sauna State makes me think of my in-laws in south west Georgia or Florida, is that accurate?
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Oh yeah, Southwest Florida----humidity, bug and lightning capital of the world, but at least it's gun friendly.
What part of Kali are you in? I've got family in Marin Co. just north of SF
You really do have me thinking now, I would like a CZ in .40...however, I'll admit, in addition to the 75B, I'm seriously considering the SP-01 Tactical .40
If you've ever fired one, you'd know why! The design (with the front dust cover and front light rail) and weight SIGNIFICANTLY reduces felt recoil! Still can't believe how awesome the Shadow is to shoot!
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Roger,
Does Southwest Florida mean the pan handle or Tampa west coast of Florida? My father-in-law lives in Pensacola Beach and other in-laws are in Tallahassee.
I had no idea what the gun bug was like, I'm barely into this and the bug has bit me hard. I'm already eyeing the SP-01 too (Shadow's not CA DOJ approved) and the paint is barely dry on my 75B purchase. In considering the SP-01 I'd say I've got buyer's remorse but the 75B is too good to even breathe those words. And to be honest I had the option but chose the 75B as my first handgun. I guess the operative word there is "first".
If I'm able to get another in relatively quick order I expect I'll look for a compact, maybe a P-01 as the P-06 isn't allowed in Kali. Word is the sheriff is more ccw friendly than previous sheriff and I've got a friend to take the classes with. So I might try to strike while the iron's hot. I've joined the CRPA to support the sport and of course the necessary lobbyist to keep the politicians from doing too much damage.
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kali,
I too have been bitten hard....lol
getting expensive very quick....but no buyer's remorse yet!!
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Your whole idea of the conversion barrel is a good one, gives you that flexibility as you said, I just hope there are no functional problems as a result. i.e. FTE due to the different sizes of barrel and ammo in relationship to the extractor. (You're already aware of the differing spring weights per different caliber. But, if all works well as planned, you've got yourself two guns! Sweet.
Roger,
I'm excited to report my trip to the range was 100% successful -- no issues whatsoever with the EFK Fire Dragon .40 to 9mm down conversion barrel when using the appropriate Wolff guide spring. Ammo was Winchester Winclean (indoor range requirement) 124gr BEB. In fact I realized I had yet to fire the gun in DA. I fired one magazine all in DA then set up a new target at 20 yds to fire DA SA pairs. Here's the result of the first pair (sorry for the lousy picture it was the best my buddy's phone could do). So I suggest you buy the down conversion barrel for your 75B AND you buy the SP-01! :)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Aw-rPEj25dE/TM7iMtMGy3I/AAAAAAAAAGc/7rmEMBJQIjA/s144/DASA.jpg)
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Excellent range report, my friend, excellent! Now you're gonna have me go and get a 75SA .40! I just ordered the SP-01 Tactical .40 !!! I'll prob. fall in love instantly as I did with the Shadow. Hoping the SP-01 will tame that potent .40 a bit...and pack a serious punch with that 4.7" barrel....CZ style baby.
Check the addition to my signature below. Man, I'm gonna have to a) get a second job b) get a bigger safe. ;D
Oh, I'm all the way down south and west in the great peninsula Sunshine State...Fort Myers. Gun friendly territory. ;)
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Now Roger, don't try to stimulate the economy all by yourself! Next on my to-do list (and likely before another handgun purchase) is to researching reloading. I fear we've hijacked this thread enough for now.
Btw in answer to your earlier geography question, I'm in Southern California about an hour north of Los Angeles. 8)
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I'm gonna get stimulated tomorrow and hit the outdoor range with the 75B Stainless and the 75SA, 100 rounds each...I'll do a side by side and figure out which one I like best (that's gonna be tough) Can't wait to get lighter mainsprings, comp. sights and rubber grips for the 75SA. Sound like fun? Bring along the G27 for good measure, 80 rounds.
Well, it's not a total hijack, we're staying pretty much on topic...Santa Barbara? Reason I ask, I've got family out there and contemplating moving from the great state of Florida. (Always preferred SoCal weather)
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I can only afford to visit Santa Barbara not live there. I live in Camarillo which is roughly half way between downtown Los Angeles and Santa Barbara. We're about 20 minutes from the Pacific so definitley a moderate climate. IMO if you move to California you'll be improving your climate while degrading your gun rights. If your relatives are in No Cal it'll be easier to find a gun friendly county than in So Cal.
BTW on the 75SA: I read a post on this site indicating the slide on the 75SA is different (lower profile I believe) than the 75B SA/DA. So I don't know what that means for the conversion barrel. It shouldn't matter unless the barrel in the SA is different somehow from the SA/DA.
Take it easy...
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Thanks for the tips/info. on Cali.
If the slides are different, it's very slight (to me)
Certainly the barrels are identical, so you're good to go.
Both guns, flawless, fun and highly accurate today. Great shooting guns! Love CZ.
Talk to ya soon!
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Thanks again. I decided to go with the single action, I don't carry, so I don't have a need for da/sa, plus I like the beavertail on the sa better.
Some do prefer DA/SA for carry, and I respect that. In my case, I prefer my SA for carry, because I want each trigger pull to be the same, and have confidence in the CZ75B SA being carried safely cocked and locked with an appropriate holster. And you're right, the beavertail on the SA is much better! :)