The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ82 & CZ83 CLUB => Topic started by: wrig456 on November 04, 2010, 12:08:15 PM
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I'm a new CZ 82 owner, and am not that pleased with the accuracy of the gun. I'm trying to sort out is it me, my expectations, or the gun. I shot the below B2 target at 15 yards from a bench rest. With my S&W 22a and a cheap red dot scope I can group about 3 inches at 50 yards from the bench. I'm shooting Brown Bear 95 grn ammo. The only thing I can see with the gun is the barrel crown looks like it was done with a rough piece of rock.
I see lots of people bragging about how accurate this gun is, what I am looking for is what can I expect from the gun as far as accuracy?? Thanks for your feedback.
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/wrig456/DSC00966.jpg)
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/wrig456/DSC00964.jpg)
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If the muzzle is indeed beat up, that can certainly affect accuracy. Brn Br ammo is not the best in the world but shoots fine in my -82.
My 82 is consistant; I am not. But my groups are tighter than what your appear to be. 82s tend to shoot low, so don't use a 6:00 hold when sighting.
Your rifling is much more obvious than mine. My barrel looks like a smoothbore (literally). The local gunsmith swore it would keyhole because the rifling was "shot out." Needless to say, it doesn't. I enjoy shooting the 82 much more than my .45s.
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I moved the rear sight a couple clicks to the right. Am going to the range tomorrow to see what happens, will post the results. This is actually my second CZ 82, the first I got from Classic Arms and had bad problems with the trigger pull. They refunded my $. This one is from AIM. I have a set of calibration springs on order from Wolff. This gun has a rather uncomfortable recoil, much worse then the one from Classic. The next step I think will be to try and find a gunsmith in the Surprise AZ area that doesn't have a 6 week backloag of work that can clean up the crown on the barrel.
The picture of the crown really shows the rotation in the barrel, you can't see it just looking down the barrel??
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I've actually bought 2 -82s (one for the son) and both looked like smoothbores. I fyou shine a light down the bore, you can barely make out a slight rotation of the surface. I haven't fired his, so I can't compare the two. They were '86 and '88 year models. If you have lands and grooves (couldn't really tell in the photo) like more common firearms, there's a chance it might have been rebarreled.
Regardless, if there's any damage inside the muzzle, the accuracy will be affected. That's one reason it's recommended to run the cleaning rods from the chamber ends as the beginning of the rifling has far less effect on accuracy.
I'd suggest using a rest of some sort at closer range (7-10 yards max) to determine if the pistol has a problem or not. The range I normally use is 15 yrds and my groups tend to be spread much more than I like, and I'd never brag about it. Bit at another indoor range where target range can be set at any distance, moving the target to 7-10 yards makes my groups much smaller, more like those 2-3 inchers everyone likes to post.
Generally, wide grouping is : A. operator error; or B. really poor firearm quality. I haven't found the quality of the surplus -82s to be an issue as far as functioning goes. Yeah, they could have designed the grips with two screws so they wouldn't work loose all the time, but...
If there's really an issue with the barrel and you can't find a 9mm Mak replacement, You can install a -83 .380 barrel and it will work fine.
Good luck with your next range session. The -82 is a sweet little pistol, and I hope you get it to hit where you aim.
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Well, it looks like I went about 1 click too far on my sight adjustment, will split the diff and that should be about right left to right. My sight picture was right on the 10. I did'nt mind the recoil as much today, guess I'm getting use to it. I took my S&W 22 along for a referance and was able to keep 10 rounds in the black at the same distance. I did notice that the 82 has a lot of not very smooth creep in the trigger before it fires. I found that rather distracting after feeling the nice crisp trigger on my 22. But were probably comparing apples to oranges here.
The barrel on my cz is a smooth bore, in the picture of the end of the barrel it looks like there might be lands, but those are actually chips in the crown.
At this point I think my group is about 50/50, me/gun. If I can get the trigger smoothed out a little and the crown cleaned up than I can only blame me!!
Thank you both for all your input..Any other ideas let me know DW
Shadow Warrior, I had a TC many many years ago. Chambered for a wildcat round. 223 necked out to 7mm.
with an aimpoint red dot scope. 4 in groups at 100 yards. Loved that gun, wish I still had it.
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/wrig456/DSC00967.jpg)
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I have a used CZ-82 as as well as the Pa-63,the Polish P-83 wanad and a Bulgarian Makorov. THese 9mm Makorov caliber guns tend to be harsh on recoil I did replace the spring in my 82 that helped some and it by far is easier on the hands than the pa-63 or bulgarian mak. Out of the four that I own the Pa -63 come in first inaccuracy followed by the Poilsh Wanad then the Cz-82 and last place the bulgarian mak which is in exception condition. Now the Pa -63 is also the hardest on your hands after 150 rounds I am done for the day,if I was shooting my colt 1911 combat commander I put more than 300 rounds down range before recoil starts to bother my old hands. I don't concern myself with shooting from a rest, I am happy to shoot standing 2 hands combat style and if my groups are 3 to six inches from 7 to 15 yards I am happy at 25 yards thees 9mm maks usually start to spread out more. As long as I hit the target I know that I be able to hit an intruder/criminal whether its in my house or on the streets. Thats how I make my family train as well. I like the fact that thes pistols are reasonbly cheap and so is the ammo. I have not had any of these pistols have a stopage or failure to date. At $159.00 the Pa -63 is the best bargain I own.
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Another quick question for cz82 owners. I noticed on mine that at the end of the trigger pull, just before the hammer drops, the hammer moves back a little more. Like the hammer is not being held back far enough in the first place?? Is this normal operation??
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Yes, it is normal operation. The firing pin block is being lifted, and when it reaches the top of its travel then the trigger bar moves the sear to the point that it releases the hammer. As the sear is moved, the hammer moves further out too, then of course the hammer is released and the real physics begin....
Scott
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I find the recoil of the -82 certainly less than a 9mm Luger, much less than the .380 in the lightweight LCP and like "pocket" pistols. The all-steel construction helps soak up recoil in comparision to to the lightweight polys that are so popular. Its grip is one of the most comfortable I've found yet and sending 150-200 rounds downrange is no problem. Factory loads have more "pop" to them than my reloads, which are milder than factory. Of course, it has more kick than a .22 or something small, but my past favorite was a .41 Mag and I currently shoot a .45 ACP, so I'm somewhat accustomed to heavier recoil. Without shooting the guns side-by-side, I'd rate the -82 recoil about a 3-4 at the highest on a 1-10 scale, compared to my .45 ACP, which I would call about a 6.
I don't know how much it would cost to have that muzzle re-crowned, but it may be worth it. I know it's not wise to invest a lot in an inexpensive "surplus" firearm, but the CZs are excellent pistols worth putting a little "extra" into. If it cost $40 -50 to get it done (I really have no idea of gunsmithing costs), I'd do it.
My Contender calibers were .223 and the .30 Herrett. I used 14" barrels, and while the Herrett was an awesome round, I didn't consider the recoil as stiff as my .41 Blackhawk. The length and weight of the Contender soaked it up well. The Herrett would definitely get the attention of any bystanders. Alas, the TC was stolen, with the .30 Herrett barrel. I hope the creep has good luck finding ammo--seeing as the cases have to be handmade! It was never a factory load.
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This may be an alternative to having the barrel repaired.
http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=34518.0 (http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=34518.0)
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I'm making progress. Getting the crown repaired cost me $10 and took about 2 minutes. I moved the sight back a little and my target scores have gone from the mid 40s to the high 70s. Next would like to get the trigger smoothed out a little and maybe get some better ammo. I'm saving my $ to get back into reloading. Starting to really like this handgun.
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/wrig456/DSC00978.jpg)
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I think my flyers at this point are mostly me. I've caught myself jerking the trigger a couple times. The trigger pull is not a smooth as I would like, there is a little freeplay than the pull gets harder and jerky then finally fires. I shot a couple targets with my S&W 22a, which is quite accurate, with a little better scores. The 22 has a nice crisp trigger pull, and I don't get the flyers. I guess the next step is to find someone that can smooth out the trigger, and a lot more practice on my part. Only about 200 rounds through the CZ so far.
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Your last target looks a lot better. I think you're anticipating the recoil and that's what is causing the wide groups. It should tighten up as you adjust to the gun. Just remember: It's not going to bite you, so squeeze the trigger like you mean it.
Good deal on the barrel crowning. Now that concern is a distant memory. You may find that using a different ammo will change group size also. Some of that stuff out there isn't the most consistant.
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This is a target from the very first time I fired my CZ82. After the few flyers figuring out where to point the fixed sights, I settled down. Was at 25 feet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/PICT0010.jpg)
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Looks like you have fixed the problem. Good show!
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I'm sure you realize that the CZ-82 does not have lands and grooves ( no rifling) but is a polygonal barrel... looks like smoothbore, they're not shot out. Simliar to the early Glocks.
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Hey Warrior... Greetings
Got an offer I could refuse... left Torri Station Okinawa in 1962 for home. The offer was for "Embassy Duty" in some little place called Viet Nam, I would get extra pay and even a clothing allowance for "civies" :o , but I resisted the temptation and said "I pass." ??? When I got home I got the offer from no such agency... maybe I should have checked out that opportunity , :-\
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You know, I watched a video at the MidwayUSA website yesterday and the guy was cleaning up an old rifle and redoing the crown. All he did was file the muzzle flat, then took a round-head brass screw, chucked it in his hand drill, put some lapping compound on the screw, and went at the muzzle with it. It just kind of knocked the rough edge off the hole.
My question is: can you do this with a polygonal rifled barrel? (The one in the video was standard lands and grooves)
Just realized this was my first post here. New to CZ82, but been a shooter for a while.
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mine shot 3-4" low with different types of ammo, so i filed the front sight a little and brought it up to poa.
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When I first tried my 82 it shot low and left like yours. After getting more used to it, shooting higher etc it was a lot better. But even now when I am having a bad day it is always low and left. I think it is me.
Recently got one for my brother in law, great shape but he shot low and left!
When we switched guns the accuracy was the same even though mine has obviously had much more wear. The bore should look smooth like a well maintained shotgun.
After firing and before cleaning I can see where the bullet turned and almost looks like rifling but clean it and smooth bore again.
great gun
huff
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Like a lot of people, when I got my 82 the paint on the sights was almost completely gone, so before I took it out I put some white enamel in the dots on the rear sight, and filled the notch in the front sight like I'd seen suggested here and on other boards. Visibility ++.
Then when I shot it I found (sound familiar?) that I was shooting low. Then I realized what I was doing wrong - I was borking up the sight alignment by unconciously trying to equalize the amount of white I was seeing on the front and rear sights. What I mean is the rear sight dots are only so big, but on the front sight I had painted a long strip of white and since my natural instinct was to assume that I should be seeing 3 equal sized dots of white side by side, I was holding tilted down to "hide" more of the stripe.
Once I started ignoring the paint and focusing on the iron it brought my POI up nicely. Since then I've started to scrape away some of the paint on the front sight, but I haven't got it quite right yet. Still I'm glad I've only got to mess with the paint, instead of file away any metal.
Might not be the issue for most of the people who're hitting low, but maybe it can help some. Check your sight picture!
C.C.
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I did almost exactly the same thing!
Normal learning curve?
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I was about to "paint" my sights . . . after reading this, I think I'll hold off until I know what the correct picture should be, determinned by a few trips to the range. Good post.
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Went to the range this afternoon to test fire my Gen4 G17 with a G17L barrel,
a CZ P01 and a CZ 82. I've never fired the three guns before (the G17 is old but
the G17L barrel is new; the P01 and 82 were recently purchased).
I was amazed that I shot the tightest groups with the CZ 82, with Brown Bear ammo!
It even blew out one Shoot-N-C sticker target right out of the bigger target paper!!! :D
.
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Accuracy for me has been a function of shooting - too simple. Family members are breaking bottles by the third shot and then finishing the remaining targets in succession. My biggest problem is breeding. My 82 bred into two more in the office and then a SP-01 Phantom once it saw my tax refund number at the top of my turbo tax screenshot. Glow in the dark grips and fingernail polish on the sights helped my nearsightedness. Accuracy is fine. Thanks to one and all.
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Another quick question for cz82 owners. I noticed on mine that at the end of the trigger pull, just before the hammer drops, the hammer moves back a little more. Like the hammer is not being held back far enough in the first place?? Is this normal operation??
I have a CZ-75 and a CZ-82 and they both do that. It is a result of the design and not indicative of any sort of problem. I have gotten used to it and I hardly notice the creep unless I shoot me CZ right after one of my S&W wheel guns of my 1911.