The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: swilson on March 26, 2011, 04:52:58 PM
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Hi all,
have been searching for more detailed info from anyone that has opened up their pre B magwell to accept newer Mecgar 16rd mags. I have exhausted the local supply physically checking to see if any would fit and did not find any. My '89 is lonely with only one mag and the prices on the listed pre B mags is a little more than I want to pay to get 3-4 mags.
I am not looking to send the gun off to anyone to work on, but would rather try to do the work myself. Am just trying to get a better starting point rather than trial and error with layout fluid and wear spots!
Anyone out there done this and willing to pass on tips???
thanks, Steve
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I'm also interested in the answer to this question. What little info I found indicates that the shape of the leading/front edge of the magazines changed (got rounder, or squarer, I forget).
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16rd 'B' Mags came in from CDNN today. The mags would seat to within about 1/2" before they would stop. I stripped it down to the frame so I wouldn't accidentally file the ejector block and started fitting.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/shooterw/1.jpg)
I was about to break out the dykem to mark everything and see what was binding, but with the grips off I could see first off that rear magwell opening part of the backstrap was causing the mag to tilt forward slightly the more I tried to seat it. I filed with a needle file for a couple dozen strokes and VOILA!!! the mag would seat flush.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/shooterw/5-2.jpg)
When pushing the mag release though, I had to strip the mag out. I then looked at the upper rear portion of the frame inside the magwell and filed on the entire flat portion that is just below the trigger bar.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/shooterw/4-2.jpg)
Reinserted the 'B' mag and hit the mag release and it dropped right out!!! Cleaned everything and touched it up with a little bit of cold blue....reassembled and function tested. Everything works great. ;D If you are going to try this, go slow and test fit so you don't take too much off.
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Wow...that is awesome information.. thanks for doing all that..great to know this now.
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Does the original mag still work OK...not too loose in the magwell?
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Doesn't move around at all. The amount of material removed was very minor.
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Thanks.
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wait, is that ALL that is needed to do? Really? Is full dissassembly required to do this? Or just removal of the grips and slide, and the magazine well spring?
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Great info. I may try that. I may not though since SP-01 mags work just fine in my 86 Pre B.
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wait, is that ALL that is needed to do? Really? Is full dissassembly required to do this? Or just removal of the grips and slide, and the magazine well spring?
bumping this cause he actually had pics...
basiclly ya need to do just like the pics show. remove fcg assy with ejector and file until the mags fit... pretty straight forward
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WISH this was a post ten years ago! (Before I refinished my PreB).
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Sweet. This is just what I was looking for.
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Does any one who has done this have a pic of the side of the gun with the mag brake removed and grips removed. I'm interested to see how thin the metal is near the mag brake pin hole after this mod.
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I have done this mod to many Pre-B guns. You don't remove enough material to make this area thin. There is plenty of meat left after the magazines are nice and loose. It does not take long to do this and you are only removing a few thousands of metal so there is no major change in either area that the small amount of metal is removed from.
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Anyone have a smith do this? Price paid? Thanks
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So basically do this *before* cerakoting?
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So basically do this *before* cerakoting?
Yes.
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Missed a (way) earlier post/question on metal left after the filing/metal removal is complete. Sorry. Still figured pictures might answer any future questions.
Pre B CZ 85 still nasty/dirty from it's previous location/user. The magazine would only go in so far before binding up on the rear of the frame near the top of the frame.
(http://i.imgur.com/EVV7rgal.jpg)
I did remove some additional metal from the two posts in front of the grip screw holes as I didn't want the mag brake pressing against the back of the magazine and holding it in the frame (mags. are supposed to drop when you hit the mag release button, you know.) You can't see much difference, if any. Doesn't take much clearance to make things work. The frame is upside down on a towel. The shiny area inside/back of the frame near the towel (top of the frame) and closest to the eye (bottom of the frame) as well as about midways down the frame on the front of the two posts the grip screws thread into (removed metal from the front of those, where they press against the magazine brake, to make sure the magazines would drop free when the release button was pressed.
(http://i.imgur.com/wvTjQxIl.jpg)
I took the parts out of my pistol, filed, sprayed with carb cleaner (it was nasty inside anyway) prior to doing a fit check and then I'd file some more and do another carb. spray blow out and fit test. I repeated till I got it right (clearance plus enough to make me feel good about the cerakoting not causing issues if it builds up any at all). Then I sprayed it good with rem-oil (carb spray or brake cleaner strips all the oil off the metal surfaces and rust is ever ready to jump in and cause you problems).
Edited to add: Got another opportunity to replace some photobucket nonsense with pictures from imgur and had to modify the text describing the pictures a little bit (hopefully to make it more clear/easier to understand).
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Why grind out the frame instead of just modifying the magazines themselves?
I've done many a magwell fitting and opening up for other purposes. But to make a magazine fit, I've always made the changes to the least expensive item. The mag. Please tell me what exactly I'm missing, and why the shape of a magazine can't be changed instead of the shape of the inside of pistol frame.
Thanks.
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Why grind out the frame instead of just modifying the magazines themselves?
I've done many a magwell fitting and opening up for other purposes. But to make a magazine fit, I've always made the changes to the least expensive item. The mag. Please tell me what exactly I'm missing, and why the shape of a magazine can't be changed instead of the shape of the inside of pistol frame.
Thanks.
The magwell is too shallow front to back at the top under the sear cage. 5 minutes with a file and it's good. The later mags are nicer and less expensive than the early mags. The idea is to make the gun compatible with readily available mags, not to make all mags compatible with the one gun.
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5 minutes with a file has done some horrible things... But I see the point if you're going to be running a lot of mags through the gun. Unless it's really worth it to grind out the frame in a diy manner instead of doing it right, the overall cost vs. just getting a handful of pre b magazines. I'd think guys like us who work on the bench would be more prone to this compared to the guys who just shoot and don't have the ability to refinish the gun after removing the excess material.
So how many of you have done this? Can I see a few photos of your results? Thanks Earl.
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Any metal removal can be a disaster, if you don't do enough fit checks during the removal process. I went through about 1/2 can or more of carb cleaner blowing the metal filings out of my CZ 85 frame to do regular fit checks with the magazines. I used two magazines also. A standard 16 round Mecgar and a larger capacity Mecgar (like I said, I'd bought several and wanted to be sure they worked, too).
When it would slide in/fall out like the MecGars worked in the CZ 75 Compacts I figured two or three more light strokes and then on to other stuff prior to the cerakoting (just in case the cerakoting might build up enough to cause decreased clearance issues).
Same on the night sight installation. I'd file a little off the angled sides of the front sight and then try to push it in, then more filing, try it again. Finally I'd get close enough to figure I could get it in without damaging it and get the locking screw loctited into it (this was on the CZ 75 Compacts and the CZ 75 SA, but the idea is the same, slow with frequent checks is a good way not to remove too much metal).
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Well now we're just talking basics of hand fitting components. Takes a second to screw up and a lifetime to get right.
Can I see some photos of your work on the pre b magwell?
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Have been working on my pre-B for about 1/2 hour now, and limited progress. I can run the mag in from the top, slide-side down, but when I insert it from the magwell, still hanging up.
Most of my DIY projects seem to turn out this way, even following the good advice here...
Finally have the mag going in, but doesn't drop freely yet. Been filing for hours now, six inch single cut Bastard file.
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This is good to know... thanks for posting!
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Have been working on my pre-B for about 1/2 hour now, and limited progress. I can run the mag in from the top, slide-side down, but when I insert it from the magwell, still hanging up.
Most of my DIY projects seem to turn out this way, even following the good advice here...
Finally have the mag going in, but doesn't drop freely yet. Been filing for hours now, six inch single cut Bastard file.
BL: preBs are ALL over the map, and when you THINK all you need is some filing at the top and bottom of the rear, it might not work at all. I did a little filing and my 88 ejects the old cz USA 16 round pre b LEO mags - they SHOOT out. They hang up in my 84. The other generic pre b mags now fit nicely, but they are a bit snug in the 84. But, the 84 ejects the AT 84 mags like a champ but the 88 pre B almost can?t take them. Again, it?s a crap shoot and there are various places in the mag well that can be a problem. Never assume any home project will be simple.
Update: After MUCH work, I've optimized PreB and AT 84 mags in the 88 and that is ALL I can do. The 17 rounders are a WHOLE nother animal, and I will stop at ejecting PreB mags healthily. I've removed MUCH steel in the top rear and I'm not even close on the 17 rounders.
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This has been a good learning thread. I bought 2 16 round pre B mags last week for my new to me CZ 75 pre B. $100 shipped. I did not do the research ahead of time when I bought the Pre B CZ75 to realize how expensive they were.
This would be a decent alternative but after reading the entire thread I am not so sure it is all that straight forward.
I think will stick with the I have for now. Thanks for posting this information.
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This has been a good learning thread. I bought 2 16 round pre B mags last week for my new to me CZ 75 pre B. $100 shipped. I did not do the research ahead of time when I bought the Pre B CZ75 to realize how expensive they were.
This would be a decent alternative but after reading the entire thread I am not so sure it is all that straight forward.
I think will stick with the I have for now. Thanks for posting this information.
Rest assured - it is NOT straightforward. I did a BUNCH of sanding and filing and it is only a marginal improvement, and will NOT take MecGar 16s or 17s.
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briang2ad:
I thought I posted this earlier, but it didn't show up...
Did you use Dykem or something similar (permanent magic marker will work) to help identify any like areas where the fit is too tight? If you didn't, it takes some of the guesswork and arm work out of the process. Here's a link. Skip the ads.
\ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueQQdnMCDLw (http://\ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueQQdnMCDLw)
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Somewhere here on the forum, maybe in the home gunsmithing area, there is a pretty detailed explanation of what needs to be done, along with a graphic showing exactly where material needs to be removed from the grip frame. I've found it before, and I think it's still out there.
Anyone know WHERE that "how-to" guide is to be found?
(Search functions in all of these gun forums work in unexpected ways -- and they almost never work as I would expect them to work. :) )
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Somewhere here on the forum, maybe in the home gunsmithing area, there is a pretty detailed explanation of what needs to be done, along with a graphic showing exactly where material needs to be removed from the grip frame. I've found it before, and I think it's still out there.
Anyone know WHERE that "how-to" guide is to be found?
(Search functions in all of these gun forums work in unexpected ways -- and they almost never work as I would expect them to work. :) )
How-to is here https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=39056.0
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I saw that one, earlier in this message chain. There's another one out there, somewhere, too... I think it used drawings that made it a little easier to follow. But the one cited above is good.
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I did not use dye marker. I did read the available information and took care to see where it was rubbing - taking steel off of the FRONT does help with where it hits on the rear. In the end, I would have had to take a crap ton of steel on the 88 preB to make a difference for the rear - and it was not worth it - did not want to end up with a toast frame. I filed hard and plenty, and it helps make things better for some mags that already fit. But making MecGars or 16 rounders fit is a fools errand in my 88 CZ. This methodology does NOT work in all PreBs. Its MUCH easier to BUY current PreB mags - spend $5-7 more than a regular mag or $10 more than a MeGar and you are GTG.
I do not recommend this technique in general to get 16 and 17 rounders (MecGar profile) to fit. If you want to clean things up and make things go smoother in a PreB you are ALREADY refinishing, you may want to try this.
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I am new and thanks for letting me join. This has been what I have been looking for< I have somehow lost the extra magazine, box, target and whatnot on mY 75 Pre B. I have moved so much in the past 30 years that things just disappear.
I have a ProMag 75B magazine that doesn't come close to fitting. It was only $15, but I'm not going to file down my mag well. I am not worried about resale, but will try to find originals that fit.
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Stay Patient and buy PreB ones from CZ USA - they will fit. They have the rubber bottoms (not my favorite) but they work fine. Also, the SP01 mags (18 round - not 19 MecGar) fit. Both are great mags. Not cheap, but nothing crazy like what some people want for originals. I THINK there are some available oversees now, but have no idea if they work.
SOME older AT-84 or TZ mags work. Normally you can tell old PreB type mags because they are a tad more rounded. Gunshows may be a source also.
The mag well mod here works for SOME, but as I have stated, you may end up in a losing battle removing steel.
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Sorry for posting in an old thread, but I guess this is why it's a sticky.
Pre B magazines are not available anywhere in Jan 2024, AFAIK. The last post says stay patient and buy from CZ-USA, but they do not list the Pre B magazine, which I believe was product number 11114. By stay patient, do you mean they stock them occasionally? I also messaged Mec-Gar to see if they make them from time to time, have not heard back yet. They do not list an 18-round SP01 magazine as mentioned above.
Smithing the frame is something I won't do, and I have one working mag for each of my Pre B pistols, so I'm not without. But I'd like to get more. My search skills may be weak, but I don't turn up any recent posts on this. Thank you very much.
John
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The place to buy mags. that work (mecgar mags) is Greg Cote, LLC.
Mecgar may no list what they call Pre B mags. but they make some that work fine. Evidently not all the CZ75 mags. are the same - even though they're made by Mecgar.
10 round 9MM for the full sized CZ75 - https://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/cz-75b-cz-75bd-cz-85-cz-75-sp01-9mm-factory-10-rd-magazine-normally-also-fits-the-pre-b-cz-75-11102-p-1427.html
18 round 9MM for the full sized CZ75 - https://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/cz-75b-cz-75bd-cz-85-cz-75-sp01-9mm-18-rd-factory-magazine-normally-also-fits-the-pre-b-cz-75-11152-p-1404.html
The descriptions at Greg Cote, LLC are based on customer input. That doesn't mean it will fit yours. Means it fits enough other Pre B CZ75's that he has a basis for showing that on his website.
Buy one, try it. If it works, buy more.
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Awesome info, thanks!
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Thank you to m1a4me! That SP01, 18-round magazine does, in fact fit! I'd like to have some flat bottomed mags, because I like the look of the original CZ 75, but these do fit just fine. Which makes me curious why they don't make a 15-round flat bottomed version, but it is what it is. Thanks for the info!
(https://i.imgur.com/vGlEHpj.jpg)
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Glad they work for you. We're here to help, or try to help.
Now, shoot it and come back with a range report. We like to read range reports and see how the guns and ammo shoot.