The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => Curio and Relic CZs => Topic started by: diceman3 on May 19, 2011, 02:19:16 PM
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Hi, I'm a new member and have purchased my first CZ, a model 27. Is there a place on the forum where I can find out serial numbers and dates of production. Mine starts with 476xxx.
thanks,
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The last serial numbers I have ever seen were 475xxx, just prior to the factory being overrun.
http://www.tague.at/pistolen/en_index.htm?/pistolen/pages/en_cz27.htm
GS
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Diceman -- does your pistol have Waffenamt acceptance marks? Or is it a later Czech version?
Here's a Czech version from 1948 in the 604XXX serial number range:
http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10681044
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Many (most? All?) CZ's have the year stamped on them, if that is what you are trying to figure out. I have CZ27 #567855 with the year 47 stamped on the frame, left side just ahead of the slide release tab. These pistols are generally finished to a far higher level than normal. Look also for 'MADE IN CZECHOSLOVAKIA' (in English) just ahead of the year stamp which probably indicates is was produced for export into the US (by the Thalson Co.).
My CZ24 has the date stamped on both sides of the frame (26). The CZ27 is a beautiful pistol but I like the CZ24 more, I have a thing about locked-breech .380 pistols and their long, sweet recoil.
Something interesting is to remove the slide and sideplate and watch how the trigger components work. In the link referred to above the seller says that the trigger won't return to the forward positon by itself, with the sideplate removed you can see that there is a small spring on the far right that must be missing.
Brian(J)
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great thread.
I recently purchase a VZ 27, serial is 476xxx. Normal markings on top of receiver have been ground away. It is fnh configuration, no date stamp or waffen marks. Curiously, on the left side, lower frame above the grip it carries the inscription: Maj Jon W.Schaub, JR 0-1167612. No import markings, possibly a GI bring back.
any comments would be appreciated.
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That's an interesting serial number. From 1920 to late in 1942 US Army officers had a letter prefix of "O-" (the capital letter "o" and a dash) at the beginning of their service numbers. (Enlisted men used the letter "R-" to mean "Regular Army.") From 1942 point on officers prefixed their serial numbers with a leading zero, but the service number format changed to be groups of three letters, "01 234 567" or "010 234 567" for example. Your major probably joined the army in the Twenties, because those early serial numbers were strictly sequential, so he was soldier 1,167,612 to be enrolled since the addition of the letter prefix, and the army got up to just under 7,000,000 before switching to the newer system in 1942.
What a neat detail!
Scott
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Excellent information, thank you
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Prewar and war time 27's have no date on them, the exception being those marked as being used by Nazi police forces. Those will have a date along with 'Eagle K' on the trigger guard. Post war 27's will be date marked. Mine run from 45 to 48.
Roger
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Roger, thank you for the additional information. I am intertested in learning more about how the pistol came to be inscribed with the service member's identification, and anything I can learn about him! Can date of manufacture be acertained by the pistol's serial number? I have a highly knowledgeable Czech friend running it by forums in the Czech Republic and welcome help from anyone who reads this thread!
I broke it down, cleaned it and reassembled today. Typical Czech engineering, a mechanical jewel IMHO :)
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You can try these forums also:
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?12-The-Czech-Weapons-Board
http://luger.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?42-German-Foreign-Mfg-Pistols-and-Holsters
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=65
Roger
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Can anyone help me with the ID on my dad's Vz 27?? It's an "fnh" with serial number 303236. It has nothing on top of the slide except the serial. I've been looking on the site "Pistols of the German Wermacht", but this pistol doesn't exactly match any of the ones shown. It was given to my dad by his cousin, who "obtained" it from its original owner in the Reich. He gave it to my dad in 1947, so I know its entire history.
It appears to have a brown (Parkerized?) finish, with visible machining marks on top of the slide. The grips have the Cz logo on them. What really has me stumped are the proof (?) marks. The only marks are three small German eagles with a swastika. One each on the left side of the trigger guard in front of the trigger, one on the barrel inside the ejector opening, and one to the left of the serial on top of the slide. The ones on the barrel and the slide have no letters of any kind on them. The one on the trigger guard has only a K to the right of the swastika. There are no other marks anywhere on it that I can find.
I'm gathering that it appears to be a 1944 manufacture due to the relatively low serial, but I'm interested to hear what the experts think.
Thanks!
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Wow. My serial number seems really low compared to these. I just bought my first cz27 last weekend at the gun show. The serial number is 164358 and there are no customs marks.
All markings are Czech. There is a stamp of 37 on the right side.But everything else is Cyrillic.
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I am also curious as to the age of this fire arm
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Cyrillic? Can you post a picture of your pistol? I've never seen one with Cyrillic stampings.
Scott
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I had a problem posting pictures online anywhere, til I finally put them on armslist. Here are the markings to which I refer.(http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/05/30/1692154_02_cz27_32_acp_pre_nazi_occupatio_640.jpg)
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Those letters are all Roman, not Cyrillic. The English language uses the Roman alphabet too. The Czech language uses some diacritical marks over some letters that aren't all shared with other languages, but other diacritical marks are shared, like accent marks. The "check mark" over the "C" is called a "h??ek," pronounced "haw check." It makes the letter "C" sound like "ch" in English. It is usually transliterated "Cz" into English.
We have a few threads on the forums about the meanings of the various words stamped on CZ pistols. Those threads also often list the meanings of the various proof stamps and acceptance stamps you'll find. If you have trouble googling them, I might be able to rummage up one or two of them. Let me know.
Oh, the manufacturer name on the top of the slide translates to "Czech Arms Factory in Prague" and the serial number. I have to look up the "A.S." abbreviation, but I think it means "Joint Stock Company," and it is like "Corp." or "Inc." here in the U.S., or "Ltd." in the British Commonwealth. It also means your pistol was built before communism.
Yes, I looked it up, and it means "Joint Stock Company."
Scott
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I ALSO JUST PURCHASED A USED CZ 452 RIFLE, A REAL GEM. I ALSO AM TRYING TO TELL THE AGE OF THE RIFLE, THERE IS A SERIAL NUMBER AND A 99 STAMPED ON IT, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THAT IS THE CORRECT YEAR. HOW CAN I TELL FOR SURE BY THE SERIAL NUMBER. ALSO IT APPEARS TO HAVE TYPE OF CREST, OR SOMETHING STAMPED ON IT, BUT I CAN'T MAKE IT OUT, ANY IDEA'S.
THANK YOU.
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I just got a cz24 with the serial number 178888 wanted to know more about it. Not real familiar with any of this
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I just got a cz24 with the serial number 178888 wanted to know more about it. Not real familiar with any of this
Here are a couple sites with info on 24's.
http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/VZ24/vz24.html (http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/VZ24/vz24.html)
http://www.cztalk.com/The-Vz24-CZs-first-succesful-pistol.html (http://www.cztalk.com/The-Vz24-CZs-first-succesful-pistol.html)
Roger
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I also have a cz 27, my uncle brought it back from WWII.
It has 2 mags with numbers matching the gun and also the holster as well.
SN is 42228 and I think this is what they call a eagle K.
Any info on when it would have been made and if it's very rare or not?
Not smart enough to know how to add photo's or I would have..
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Your CZ 27 was probably made in 1941 based upon the serial number, any German army acceptance stamps on the frame, slide or barrel? I am assuming it is a polished blued gun. If it is stamped with a K on the trigger guard indicates proofed for smokeless propellents. I have one with a serial #889XX without. My estimate is both were made 1941-early '42 assuming it is German army acceptance stamped. That is a rare one with the K stamping may have been made before the Germans took over the factory if it does not have any German army acceptance stamps.
PB
Quote from EAllen:
According to R.J.Berger's excellent book "Know Your Czechloslovakian Pistols", from the information in your post my reading estimates your example was made early in the German production period which took place almost two years after the Occupation of 1939. During 1939-1940, production of the CZ27 was continued by the Germans and the pistols furnished to Nazi-friendly countries and sales to citizens, before all production was claimed by the Nazis That was 1941 when the rollmark on the top of the slide was changed to the German "Bohmische", and the side of the slide marked "Pistole Modell 27, Kal. 7.65".
Those markings, and the low serial number suggest 1941. (Nazi police production started about SN 30,000). Also, according to my reading of Berger, if there is not a Nazi acceptance mark- waffenamt- then that pistol was made for the police. Nazi CZ27 production continued throughout the war both for Army and Police.
They are a nice pistol. Berger reports that the pistols made for the German war effort totaled 450,500. The design was continued after the war and produced for general sale until 1949- total production of CZ27 at 620,000.
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Actually Wikipedia, if you type in "CZ-27" for your search, has a very nice summary of Serial Numbers and examples of the the CZ-27 with tons of pictures, many with holsters, at the bottom of the article in "references!" A shortcut to the site is below:
http://www.p38guns.com/CZ27.htm
Unfortunately, the authors did not include dates, but the pictures with examples of the range within the serial numbers exemplified is well worth the look! :)
Happy Shooting!
us13doolittle
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HELLO, Greetings to all members. AS a new owner of CZ 27 I would like to know more about serial number - 178 808 is it posible to be dated based of serial number. The additional information I bougt it from a number of pistols with diferent numbers (late war Fnh and early -chech produced (chech texts) but most Bohemishe variant. they all came from Bulgarian police surplus. we knew about some delivary for Royal Bulgarian Police between 1941-43, maybe for the army. I was able to choose from 10 piece, the best 2 I had checked in shooting (both were good) but choose one with best preserved markings.
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