The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => VZ-58 semi auto rifle => Topic started by: Davemon on July 06, 2011, 11:58:06 AM
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I just picked up a new forend from Troy Ind. Eagerly waiting for it to arrive! So now the floodgates in my mind have opened, and I'm getting prepped to go on a shopping frenzy for my VZ. Here's my list:
Ambi safety
Ambi mag release
Tac bolt release
Crusader brake
buttload of ammo
I'd really love to pick up a lefty bolt carrier, but I don't believe they're being made anymore, after the Neit Arms merger, and Mr Mcfaul's move to NEA. Anyone have any info on when these might be around again, or where I might look for something comparable?
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N00b question: What's the Tac bolt release? ???
Stew
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Dave did a lefty for me and it works great. IMO, you're better off with an ambi bolt carrier as you can work it from either side to accomodate odd shooting positions or shooting from the other shoulder. I had this one done by a different guy (broncoo on canadiangunnutz.com).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/stevo8904/IMG_1644aMedium.jpg)
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I shoot Wolf Military Classic 124gr jacketed hollows all day and night, they never jam or fail to extract. They aren't the cheapest (Yugo surplus etc) but they aren't as expensive as the other ammo and in my opinion they are the best all around round for hunting / plinking / training / etc....
Let us know what type of ammo you get and how much in case there are others in need.
BB
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I picked up my first installment last week. Ulyanovsk 122 gr FMJ. Spam can of 640 rounds. Believe it or not, I found it cheapest at CTD. Just over $150 shipped. I'll probably pick up a few more cans of this later in the year, and some Yugo surplus as well (I'm not afraid of corrosive). And the Tac bolt release is/was made by Neit arms. Look for it on the Czechpoint website.
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N00b question: What's the Tac bolt release? ???
tac bolt release (http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/spare-parts-and-accessories/vz-58-parts-and-accessories/tactical-bolt-release/)
video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ZovkHRjg0#ws)
That will be on my list someday 8)
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Ahh...I see. Thank you. Can't use it out here in Kalifornia cuz our mag is fixed, so we're already slow to reload. I'm pretty good with stripper clips, tho'. 8)
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I still have the tac bolt release even though I'm from Kali. I do a lot of courses in Nevada so it's still cool to have. Plus I'm pretty sure that when SHTF nobody is going to care if you have a bullet button.
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Good point. If I ever make it to one of those courses you mentioned, it might come in handy. Right now, a trip to our local range is the best I can manage, and nobody there is impressed with how fast you can reload.
Stew
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Here?s a guy on gunbroker that makes left handed bolt carriers. It says he will do custom work too, so he could make you an ambi-carrier. Some folks like the handles to be horizontal or cut off of AK carriers.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239300734 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239300734)
Another choice is the Lightning Bolt by Colorado shooters Sports:
http://coloradoshootingsports.safewebshop.com/ak_lightning_bolt_generation_2_vz_58.html (http://coloradoshootingsports.safewebshop.com/ak_lightning_bolt_generation_2_vz_58.html)
If you send them your carrier to convert, it is cheaper.
http://coloradoshootingsports.safewebshop.com/ak_lightning_bolt_trade_standard_conversion.html (http://coloradoshootingsports.safewebshop.com/ak_lightning_bolt_trade_standard_conversion.html)
I?ll assume that your carrier is already tabbed, so converting yours may be the best option. Or you could call either party first to see if they have already tabbed their carriers. If they are just pulling them from an armorer?s chest or surplus kit, they will not be tabbed, which could cause you problems later.
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Osage, thanks for the links. Wow, that CSS carrier is pricey! Looks real nice, though. And sending them my carrier would certainly be a little cheaper. Guess I'll have to save more pennies.
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FWIW, my guy did that ambi carrier for $65, including tabbing it.
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Now that sounds more in line with what I was thinking. Guess I'll drop him a line. As far as tabbing the carrier, how can you tell if it's tabbed or not? Sorry for the newb question.
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tricking out the VZ 58 is a no brainer since Neit Arms comes out with the best stuff. I just wish somebody would make a VZ 58 specific chest rig. Kinda like the US Palm chest rig for the AK. Hey Dave! I think next project would be a VZ 58 specific chest rig. Hint Hint
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I agree, Neit makes some pretty nice stuff for the VZ. In fact, that was the bolt carrier I really wanted to get but I think they stopped making them. Shoulda picked up a second at that screaming deal over the spring, just didn't have the cash back then. If anyone has a Neit Arms lefty carrier they want to let go, give me a holler!
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Now that sounds more in line with what I was thinking. Guess I'll drop him a line. As far as tabbing the carrier, how can you tell if it's tabbed or not? Sorry for the newb question.
Pics found via Google, not mine.
Not tabbed:
(http://img8.hostingpics.net/pics/851002MY_BOLT_CARRIER.jpg)
Tabbed:
(http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/files/images/400_vz5835.jpg)
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Davemon,
The tabbing situation is best described by Obiwanbonjovi in this thread:
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38703.0 (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38703.0)
All CzechPoint rifles and Century VZ2008?s come with tabbed carriers. Of course, somebody could always switch carriers. Your carrier is likely tabbed unless it was built from a kit by an individual builder, as some have been.
You can run a non-tabbed carrier forever and never have a problem, but the tab ensures 100% reliability. Some people get the problems right away.
The problem it causes is also referred to as the ?gremlin? by many Canadian shooters. To read a good specific gremlim sticky thread, go to canadiangunnutz.com and join the forum. You will have to create a user name and password, but it is free. The Canuck?s experience with the VZ58 goes way beyond most people in the US and you can learn a lot on their forum. VZ58?s are under the heading of ?red rifles? there.
CzechPoint also sells regular tabbed carriers, but are out of stock now. Or you can get one from Obiwan.
http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/spare-parts-and-accessories/vz-58-parts-and-accessories/bolt-carrier/ (http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/spare-parts-and-accessories/vz-58-parts-and-accessories/bolt-carrier/)
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OK, I just now opened her up, and the carrier is tabbed (whew!). While I was poking around in the guts, I was amazed at how clean it is after my range session yesterday. About 250 rounds of assorted Wolf, Herters, and Ulyanovsk. It's a little dusty, but not really that bad. Anyone ever done a torture test on one of these, see how long it runs without cleaning before it just gives up?
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Not my torture test but it's in my bookmarks ;) Well... kind of a torture test... with sand.... didn't go too well...
VZ58 Torture Test Sand (http://www.lmsdefense.com/forum/index.php?topic=3805.0)
And a 1K round test
VZ58 1K Round Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGWMuzQa5lE&feature=BFa&list=ULZuTAQBnG5S0&index=5#ws)
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Some things to know about that vid:
- the rifle was a brand new Czech Small Arms (formerly D-Technik) 11.75" VZ 58 Sporter.
- it was oiled, not greased. The importer wanted it that way. ::)
- roughly 1k was fired continuously over about 20 minutes, 5 rounds at a time.
- at about 600 rounds the front of the plastic handguard melted through and it fell off.
- it was about -20 C out.
- it had numerous feed issues due to mags not fully locking in place. I had the same problem with my CSA til I modded a spare extended mag release.
- I'm the guy in the blue and red snowmobile suit.
It was a ridiculous test, not representative of any sort of reasonable use, even for a FA military gun.
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While I was poking around in the guts, I was amazed at how clean it is after my range session yesterday. About 250 rounds of assorted Wolf, Herters, and Ulyanovsk. It's a little dusty, but not really that bad.
I was too after firing a couple hundred rounds. One new thing I noticed while cleaning was the hole on the bottom right of the gas block. Between that hole and the short stroke piston not much gets into the firing works. Really crud doesn't even get into the fore grip area. PLUS the gun is so bleep easy to strip and clean. I LIKE IT :)
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Agreed. I too was very surprised at the simplicity of the rifle upon stripping it for the first time. I love the gas piston design. Super super easy to clean. I found my support hand did get a little dirty (I suppose from the gasses escaping through the forend, a Fab Defense one), but then again that may have been the .44 mag I was shooting right before :D
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It was a ridiculous test, not representative of any sort of reasonable use, even for a FA military gun.
None the less Stevo... It sounds like a good time to me!
- it was oiled, not greased. The importer wanted it that way. ::)
Do you think grease would have attracted less dirt and grime?
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Oh, it was a good time. Burning someone else's ammo always is! The gun got so hot everything forward of the middle of the receiver was too hot to hold, even with gloves on. I'm surprised it didn't cook off. Burned the paint off for a couple inches on either side of the gas block, too.
My preference for grease has more to do with it staying where you put it and, in my experience, not disappearing as much as oil when you get a rifle good and hot. In that test, the gun really wasn't that dirty before it got buried in the mud we made. But that's not shown in the video.
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You guys buried it before you put 1k rounds through it? O0 Maybe that has something to do with the stoppages ??? ;D
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No, after the 1k, then shook the muck off and shot it some more.
The stoppages were mostly magazine related, as I said earlier. Once we figured out which ones wouldn't seat correctly, we took them out of the rotation. I'd attribute a few of the stoppages to a brand-new, under-lubed rifle, but not many.
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What's the prevailing opinion on Crusader brakes? Worth the cost and effort? I hedge mostly because I don't trust any of the gunsmiths in this area to not screw it up. And the cost to send it out seems prohibitive, at least to me. Your thoughts?
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And here's one more question for you all: Has anyone mounted an ACE skeleton stock on their VZ, using a Stormwerks adapter and folding mechanism? I was looking in to this, mostly wasn't sure of the LOP needed (the factory folder is about 1.5" too short for me), and if I'd want to go with factory angle, or straight (I'm hoping for a co-witness with my sights and red dot, using my new Troy forend, with a good cheek weld).
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What's the prevailing opinion on Crusader brakes? Worth the cost and effort? I hedge mostly because I don't trust any of the gunsmiths in this area to not screw it up. And the cost to send it out seems prohibitive, at least to me. Your thoughts?
I LOVE my Crusader break! Muzzle climb is non-existent along with recoil... not that there was a whole lot of recoil to begin with. I lucked out and got a good Century built VZ2008 so installation was as easy as thread off, thread on. I would highly recommend it over the slant break that came installed on the Century build. It also increases concussion to those standing next to you X10 O0
Definitely worth the cost of the break... I'm assuming you have a CzechPoint build so now you have to ask yourself, is it going to be worth the cost and time of having a gunsmith install one...
I don't like spending money, I was worried when I ordered it because it was so expensive. Knowing what I know now about the Crusader, I would absolutely buy another... but first I need to buy another VZ! ;D