The Original CZ Forum
ARCHIVES => CZF ARCHIVES II => CZ Reviews => Topic started by: nothing on September 04, 2011, 11:45:22 PM
-
I purchased this pistol to replace my Springer Precision customized XD for my primary USPSA production pistol. I really like the XD and the SP tuned trigger is just amazing, but I decided I wanted a heavier pistol. After doing a large amount of research I decided on the Shadow Target. CZ-USA was nice enough to give me a military discount so that made it even more appealing.
I wanted to have some extra trigger work done to lighten it to 5.5/2.5 since it's going to be a competition gun and I always run federal primers. Unfortunately since I was purchasing through CZ USA it was a bit of a logistical problem for them. To their credit they were willing to try, but I decided I could try and reduce the pull myself. It came set at 7.5/4.0
Overall I really like this pistol a lot. The fit and finish is terrific. I don't have many pistols that don't rattle. I usually get all of my firearms refinished by Birdsong and Associates (Black-T) the minute I get them, but their finish seems pretty durable so I think I'm going to leave it as is for a while. The cocobolo grips are very nice and actually have a pretty aggressive texture, but they are a little wide for me. They will be replaced by the thin aluminum grips when they come back in stock. I love the rear sight on this pistol. It has positive adjustments with a definitive "click". The sight itself (rear blade) looks almost exactly like the Dawson Precision sight on my XD. I'm still not sure how much I like the front site. It seems a little wide for my tastes and I'm still debating over fiber or plain black for a front sight. It would be nice if it were serrated to match the rear.
The accuracy of this pistol is stellar. I shot 125gr Zero FMJ and 147gr Precision Delta FMJ-RN. Both grouped very well. The 147's were amazingly soft shooting and the slide still cycled very quickly. I've heard some complaints about it being sluggish with 147's but I didn't find it to be the case with mine. The pistol transitions a hair slower than my XD due to the weight, but the sights tracked much better for followup shots. The gun functioned flawlessly, I had zero failures. Aside from that the balance is pretty good although a little muzzle heavy without a full magazine. I suspect the short dust cover shadow is a bit more balanced. The ergonomics are very good and I think it will get even better with the thin aluminum grips.
The trigger was descent out of the box, but I have to admit I was a bit disappointed with it. I realize this is not a true "custom gun" but I expected a smoother trigger than what came out of the box since it advertises a tuned trigger "world champion Angus Hobdell?s CZ Custom Shop". I'm sure it's better than a standard shadow and it does have the competition hammer fitted, but like I said I was a little disappointed. I tuned the mainspring a bit more to get it down to 6.5 lbs DA. It fired my reloads fine (574 rounds to be exact) so I don't think I took too much off. I was surprised to find it had an extended firing pin measuring 2.499". I think that helps quite a bit. I also disassembled the frame and was a little disappointed to see how they polished the parts. It was a minimal effort and I could still see a good bit of machine marks on the trigger bar, sear cage and sear. Most of the required areas were polished, but there was enough of the machine marks to leave it a bit rough. I smoothed them out with some ceramic stones and 600 grit sandpaper. After reassembly it was still a bit rough, but the DA pull was reduced to 6.2#. I took it back apart and polished the sides of the hammer which I'm not sure if they tried to polish the sides or if it was just warn from all of the dry fire I was doing.
Being an amateur woodworker I have all kinds of devices to tune and sharpen chisels and plane blades so I used a couple of these to polish the hammer. I believe that cleaned up the rest. It really feels good now and measures 5.5# in DA. I also tuned the TRS and now have the SA down to 3# down from 4#. The SA pull is like butter and then breaks like glass. At least I got the crash course on how this pistol works.
Overall I think it's an amazing pistol and the pros definitely outweigh the cons and I could be just a bit picky about the trigger. I'd like to find a stock shadow to see how it compares.
-
Nothing...congrats on the new Shadow Target.
I, too, own a Shadow Target. Not sure whether you are aware that the Target comes with 13# recoil spring and 15# main spring. If I were you, I would install an 11# recoil spring and a 13# main spring. Better yet, install the new 11.5# main spring from Cajun Gun Works -- it should work fine as you have an extended firing pin, and you should have a superb DA pull.
In regard to grips, I find the thin aluminum grips too thin. While my hands are not huge, they are on the larger side. I find the arched aluminum grips to be just right -- its width measurement is just in between the thin and thick grips, and it has a bit of convex surface.
http://czcustom.com/czgripsallongblackarched.aspx
-
Justaute,
I guess I should have specified I believe mine came sprung with the 13# MS and 11# recoil spring. I have the 8.5# MS on the way just to play with and a 10# recoil spring. My loads are making about a 132 PF. I'm going to play around with springs and run some tests on CCI primers to see how light I can get and maintain reliability.
The more I shoot this pistol the better it feels. It's fast becoming my favorite. I've started reworking my 1911 triggers to try to get them more on par with this one :)
-
Enjoy your Shadow Target. CZ makes great handguns, though I am a bit biased. :)
-
I've had no problem with the CGW 8.5 lb mainspring with CGW extended firing pin and Shadow hammer in a 85b using Federal primers. White box needs a second strike every once in a while.
-
Myles,
Your post #4 is precisely on the money. My 8.5# hammer spring, reduced power firing pin spring, and extended firing pin has been working well with Federal primers only.
As a second suggestion, subsitute the 8.5# hammer spring for my 11.5# hammer spring using all the above, and you get a DA trigger pull just slightly heavier, and it will touch off most everything, (excluding CCI's which may have an occassional light strike).
What would benefit the Shadow, or any other CZ for that matter is an action tune/polish. I have been doing a lot of these lately and the difference is simply amazing. I plan on posting some step by step how to pics in the very near future showing CZ owners what to polish, where to polish, and the proper method.
It's well worth the effort.
-
I just set up a Phantom using the 11.5# CGW spring, extended firing pin and some other tweaks, and can run CCI small pistol primers all day and night long.
trigger is smooth, not super light. but very nice.
A 75 Shadow and a 75B in .40 I have used the 8.5# CGW spring and the action is running around 4.8#DA and 2#SA and run FED only.
-
I am running a cz 75 SA with an Sp01 Shadow top with a CGW 11.5 mainspring with coil cut off, CGW Firing pin spring, and a CZ custom hammer. My sa pulls are between 25 and 31 ounces depending on where you pull the trigger.
-
Stuart,
Thanks for your post #6. I have had some customers that say they have an occassional light strike on CCI's, and others that say the 11.5# HS with the other stuff runs 100%.
I think the difference may be partly attributable to the FP length. I am planning on machining a batch of FPB firing pins with an OAL of 2.485", maybe even go up to 2.490".
-
I think the difference may be partly attributable to the FP length. I am planning on machining a batch of FPB firing pins with an OAL of 2.485", maybe even go up to 2.490".
THANK YOU!!!!
I would love to have pins that long or longer.
with the hammer down, do you know how long the pin can be to be within a few thousandth of the hole?
-
Stuart,
I'll have to check before I can give you an answer. I'll find out.
-
Schmeky,
I run federal primers almost exclusively, I'm just curious to see how far I can push things with harder primers. If I ever have to run CCI in a match I'll just put my 13# MS back in.
I just finished polishing everything I could think of. Basically I polished the sides of the hammer, engagement areas on the bottom of the sear cage, back of the sear, sides of the trigger bar, grooves on the bottom, rear bottom and top of trigger bar, sides of trigger and engagement points between the trigger and trigger bar. The hammer strut was already polished. I installed your improved trigger pin, 8.5# MS and reduced FP spring. It came with an extended firing pin measuring 2.499
Currently DA is measuring 4# 13oz and SA 2#9oz. The DA is so light and smooth I almost feel guilty about it. The DA runs around 5.5# with the 13# MS and 4 coils cut. Both reliably ignite federal primers. I haven't tried anything harder yet.
I'm curious to see your methods on polishing. I used a combination of ceramic stones and my work-sharp. I went slow to keep things square and prevent heating the metal. Basically I used the same method I use to sharpen and flatten my handplanes and chisels. Difficult areas I used various grits of sand paper attached to a flat file with some gum media.
-
I think the difference may be partly attributable to the FP length. I am planning on machining a batch of FPB firing pins with an OAL of 2.485", maybe even go up to 2.490".
THANK YOU!!!!
I would love to have pins that long or longer.
with the hammer down, do you know how long the pin can be to be within a few thousandth of the hole?
I was searching for the factory main and recoil spring weights of my Shadow Target, and brought this post up. Concerning the firing pin length I'm bringing it back up. Stuart, do the firing pin block models have different length firing pins than those without? I just put the calipers on my Shadow Target, and the firing pin itself is 2.4665" long, while the actual firing pin tunnel length including firing pin stop is 2.475". Perhaps my firing pin is an extended model already.......? Or on competition guns, do you run firing pins long enough to rest on the primer with the hammer down?
-
Or on competition guns, do you run firing pins long enough to rest on the primer with the hammer down?
No. I believe stuart mentioned being "near" to the FP opening. When struck by the hammer, the FP compresses the spring and by 'inertia' protrudes into the primer and then retracts back into the FP hole with spring tension.
If it's too long "Dragging" on the primer and case is bad juju. The same FP inertia from releasing the slide could cause it to fire.
Maybe stuart can correct my poor terminology.
-
it's been kind of a grail for me to see how light of a hammer spring I can get and get the reliability I want.
I am trying to see how close I can get, but give the pin enough force to strike deep enough into the primer. I think it needs room to move for the strike, but I am still playing with CGWs help.
I have been having good luck getting light reliable triggers running the 11.5# hammer spring and long firing pins so far.