The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => CZ Gunsmithing => Topic started by: nothing on September 18, 2011, 08:49:37 PM
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After reading everything I could on trigger jobs from this forum and a couple of others I embarked on working my Shadow Custom Target's trigger. Each piece of advice really helped, but it didn't seem to complete the job until I put it all together. I ended up with about a 4DA/2SA trigger.
Tools needed:
1/16th starter punch w/hammer
3/32nd punch
1/16th punch
1/8th punch
dental pick
needle nose plyers
sandpaper: 400, 600, 800, 1000
glass plate and removable adhesive
sharpening stones (I prefer ceramic) If using water or oil stones be sure they are flat
Dremel with felt bob and polish and cutting wheel
Q-Tips
Rem-Oil
Grease
During disassembly the only part you that will need a hammer or mallet to drive out is the trigger pin. Everything else should move out with minimal force.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-01.jpg)
Field Strip and remove grips
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-02.jpg)
Remove magazine plate
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-03.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-04.jpg)
remove mainspring and plunger by applying pressure to the bottom of the plunger and pushing out the pin
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-05.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-06.jpg)
Remove Safety and Sear Cage by lifting the sear spring from the groove and easing the safety out. It might help to pry with a firm piece of plastic to get it started. If you have to force it out something is wrong, check the spring again.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-07.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-08.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-09.jpg)
Remove the right safety detent to keep it from disappearing when you remove the trigger
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-10.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-11.jpg)
Remove the hammer, strut and disconnector by lifting up on the retaining pin and pushing out the hammer pin
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-12.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-13.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-14.jpg)
Remove the Trigger by beating the hell out of the pin with a 1/16th starter punch. I highly recommend replacing it with CGW floating pin. The pin will not be pretty when you get it removed so be sure you have an extra to replace it with just in case. Be sure to cover the trigger return spring with something to keep it from flying away when you back the punch out. I like to just turn the pistol upside down on the towel and place my finger behind the top of the magwell. The CGW pin is shown.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-15.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-16.jpg)
Back the trigger pin out to remove the trigger
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-17.jpg)
Remove the firing pin by depressing the firing pin in with a punch and sliding the plate off. Slide the firing pin and spring out.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-18.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-19.jpg)
Disassemble the sear cage by pushing the pin out and separating the two parts. Remember not to let the spring get away from you.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-21.jpg)
This concludes disassembly.
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A word on smoothing parts: Go slowly and keep everything flat and square. Sandpaper must be attached to a flat surface. If it isn?t it will round off the sides of parts. Glass works well, but granite or even MDF can be used as well. There is no need to apply pressure to the parts, just let them glide lightly across the sandpaper or stones. Do not let the metal get hot as it can adversely affect the temperament of the steel. Warm is OK, but hot is a no-go. When using the dremel pay close attention to the temperature since it can heat up the metal quickly. It takes a light touch with it as well.
The first part to work is the trigger bar and trigger. Using sandpaper stuck to a glass plate begin working the sides of the trigger and trigger bar moving in increments from 400 through 1000 grit. There will be some deep machining marks left, but as long as it?s smooth it?s fine. Don?t? forget to polish the small area on the trigger bar that attaches the trigger.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/Trigger.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/TriggerBarSide.jpg)
Polish the bottom. Don?t forget the grooves.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/triggerbarbottom.jpg)
Polish the top. You can rub the bulk of it on a glass plate or stones, the rest just attach some sand paper to a small file to get in the small areas. Don?t attempt to get rid of all the machine marks, particularly on the lower part. Remove just enough material to help the disconnector glide.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/triggerbartop.jpg)
Smooth the two points where the ears of the disconnector engage. Again it won?t be perfect, but you want to remove the overall friction points.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/triggerbarrear.jpg)
Use the dremel with the feltbob and polish to finish buffing the triggerbar.
Smooth the sear cage and the sear. I used a ceramic stone set for this. Sandpaper would work fine also. I just trust the ceramic more with keeping the back of the sear flat. I also smoothed the middle of the sear cage where the top of the disconnector touches. Finish the sear cage with a light touch from the felt bob. I didn?t use the dremel on the sear since I want to make sure it?s absolutely flat with no rounded edges.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/searcage.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/sear.jpg)
Polish the sides of the hammer making sure you stay clear of the hooks. Also polish and round the hammer strut to ensure the mainspring rides smoothly. I also polished the hammer pin. Finish up with the dremel
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/hammer.jpg)
You can smooth and polish the disconnector without removing it from the hammer. Use a small file with sandpaper attached. Be careful to stay clear of the hammer and hooks. Don?t take off too much material. You?re just trying to make it a little more slick.
Top of disconnector
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/disconnectortop.jpg)
Bottom of disconector, smooth the ears and the tip that drags along the frame as well
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/disconnectorbottom.jpg)
Finally lightly smooth the front of the ears. Just as before don?t take off too much material. Just try to knock down the high spots a little.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/disconnectorfront.jpg)
Lightly smooth the rear of the frame where the disconnector glides. Be careful not to round the edge. Take off just enough material to the point it feels smooth, don?t try to give it a mirror finish. I went up to 1000 grit, but didn?t remove the heavy machining marks.
On a side note, machine marks that are parallel with the direction of travel act as serrations and actually help reduce the amount of friction due to less material making contact with the surface.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/frame.jpg)
Smooth the tops of the trigger lifter spring with sandpaper. Also note the magazine spring screw. If the trigger reset seems to be a little long it could be because of too much tension on the lifter spring. Backing off the screw will make the rebound seem less turbulent when the trigger bar lifts on the rebound.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/triggerlifterspring.jpg)
I also lightly dremeled the firing pin with the felt bob and the inside of the frame where the trigger bar fits. The intent is to knock off any burrs or rough spots, not to polish the areas. You can also do this with the hammer pin and trigger pin.
Before reassembling the small parts give the polished areas a thin coat of Rem Oil or similar. Be sure to clean all the parts to ensure the metal shavings are gone and won?t contribute to corrosion.
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To reassemble just follow the reverse order. Use the hammer pin retaining pin to act as a slave pin when inserting the trigger and trigger bar. It will hold the trigger return spring in place. Insert the rear of the trigger bar first and then slip the trigger in.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-43.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-44.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-45.jpg)
When assembling the sear cage I make a slave pin out of a cut q-tip and use it to hold the sear spring in place while inserting it into the cage. The Main Spring pin and the Sear pin are similar in size. Be sure to use the longer pin in the sear.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-46.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-47.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-48.jpg)
Before inserting the Hammer assembly back in place put a light coat of grease on it. I like regular slide glide but any gun grease would work. It will help dampen the spring (you won?t feel the vibration in the grip when the hammer releases) and reduce friction during the DA Pull.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-49.jpg)
To insert the safety I place the right side in first. Then I work the left side in until it barely engages the right side. At this point use a dental pick to pull back on the left detent until the safety snaps in place. Then push the sear spring back into the channel on the safety. Forgetting to do this will cause it to come lose while shooting (ask me how I know).
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-50.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-07.jpg)
Tuning the springs for trigger pull:
The biggest factor in the DA pull is the mainspring. Cutting coils from the MS will reduce the pull weight, but it can also affect setting off primers. On 13# spring I cut off 4 coils and ended up with a 4#13oz pull that still set off federal primers. Main Springs can also be smoothed on the inside to reduce the friction on the hammer strut and turned down (thinned) to reduce the pull without having to cut coils.
To increase reliability you can tune the firing pin spring a little and add an extended firing pin. My firing pin spring was already tuned by CZ Custom and was significantly shorter. I have the reduce spring from CGW, but haven?t tried it yet. It?s a much longer spring than the CZ Custom tuned spring.
After installing Cajun Gun Works 8.5# spring my DA pull is around 4#3oz based on a 10 pull average. I made no modifications to this spring.
The trigger return spring has more of an affect on the SA Pull. By bending the legs further away you can reduce the tension. Bending too much will cause the trigger not to return. Be sure to keep the spring channels on the trigger bar lubricated with a lightened trigger. A drop of Rem oil works well.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/triggerreturnspring.jpg)
DA pull
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-52.jpg)
SA pull
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/LastImport-53.jpg)
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Wow nicely played ...............very nicely documented....this should be a big help to someone!!!!
RCG
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very nice step by step.
lots of good information and tips.
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Nothing...very, very nice work here. Wow.
I definitely like that 2/2.25# SA pull-weight.
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Excellent share Nothing. I am sure the results, and satisfaction, is worth much more the effort!
What was the SA/DA rating before the job?
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Nothing,
Great tutorial. Great pics for everyone. I just wanted to mention that you can reduce the DA pull weight by cutting coils from a heavier spring, but the best method is to retain the springs OAL and use a smaller diameter wire. This is what I have done with my 8.5# spring, as well as my 11.5# spring. This is the same principal behind my firing pin spring, it's longer, but it's also much lighter.
The trigger pin has been a big seller for CGW. To bad CZ doesn't do this from the factory.
Again, great job!!!
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Thanks for the kind words everyone. If it wasn't for folks like ya'll posting all your tips and tricks I really doubt I would have had the same results. I also really appreciate Stuart and Schmeky taking the time to answer a couple of dumb questions for me. Schmeky, your trigger pin and 8.5# spring are both like magic. I would have gone through 8 trigger pins messing with this thing if I hadn't bought yours.
Coolbox, it came set at just under 8DA/4SA. It was obvious CZ Custom had done a little work to the action and springs, but I figured it needed a little more. By just cutting the 13# MS I was only able to drop the DA to about 6.5#. That same spring now breaks just under 5# after doing all the work to the action. After chucking it in a drill press at 200RPM and running a piece of rolled up 1000 grit sandpaper through it for about 20 seconds it broke at 4.5#. The 8.5# and 11.5# spring is really the way to go since you don't have to cut it.
After I worked over a part I would put the pistol back together and test the function and check the pull weight. With each part I noticed a slight reduction in weight and each contributed to the smoothness of the action. The biggest drops in pull weight and affect on the feel of the action seemed to come from polishing the sides of the hammer and highlighted areas of the trigger bar.
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I am very jealous of your results...very very nice.
what primers are you able to use at this trigger weight?
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Stuart, so far I've only shot federal primers as I've been reloading with them exclusively for the past year. I have 300 rounds on the 8.5# spring with 100% ignition. I've got to make a trip to the store this afternoon so I'll pick up some CCI and Winchester primers to see how they run. I'm leery about getting the CCI to run, but maybe the Winchester will work. I will take a couple of other springs with me to test.
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Nothing,
There is no such thing as a dumb question on this forum. No one was born knowing how a firearm works. I like to thing we are all learning and sharing. Thanks for sharing your results with us.
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Nicely done Nothing 8)
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Very nice, thanks a lot Nothing. There is a lot of stuff I will try on my Pre B.
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Truly impressive. Thank you.
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I did a little more work to the hammer. I carefully sanded the hammer bed with 1000 grit paper. Be careful not to damage the hooks and go very slowly.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/HammerBed.jpg)
Sanding in the directions of the arrows gave me the most control.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/hammerbedsand.jpg)
A better photo of the file with the sandpaper glued on using rubber cement.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/HammerBed2.jpg)
For working on springs I chuck them in the drill press and use rolled up sandpaper to debur the inside. Set it to a low speed or your going to find out drill presses are really used to hurl projectiles at you. I set mine for 200 RPM. Here is the mainspring:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/MainSpring.jpg)
A q-tip can help with the outside of the spring. I chucked the q-tip to the drill press and placed the firing pin spring over it. Now I can work the entire outside length of the spring.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/killer31/CZ%20Shadow%20Trigger%20Job/FPSpring.jpg)
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I tried CCI primers yesterday at the range. I had 3 out of 100 fail to ignite. I wish I had the 11.5# MS from CGW just to try, I think it would have worked flawlessly. I did everything I could think of to increase reliability. I have an extended firing pin, fluffed and buffed to a shine and reduced the firing pin spring that was polished inside and out. I'm wondering if a lighter pin might work. I might get an extra and try drilling some relief holes just to see what happens.
It is 100% with Federal Primers. I have about 500 of them through it so far with no failures.
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the 11.5# should work..
I did a set up on a Phantom with the that weight mainspring and it went 100%
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nothing,
I think you should change your user name to "something". Your pics and tutorials are excellent, you are a great contributor to this forum.
I may have a solution to the "other primers" problem. I have been working on an extended FP and special spring that are working well, so far. Typical extended FP's are around 2.480" +/-. I have machined some that are 2.490" and even with the HS-8500 CGW hammer spring, I am seeing excellent ignition. So, we may be able to have our cake and, well, you know . . . .
I should know in the next few weeks. I would like to get some out for testing to verify my findings.
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Thank you Schmeky..
love the idea of 2.490
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(Nothing) I just read your post on the Shadow and I was very impressed. I think this was the best article I've read on this fourm yet... I wish there were more knowledgable people willing to take the time to explain how to improve our guns. Thank you for your post.
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Just wanted to say THANKS! I've always wanted to know how to pull my shadow to bits, now I know.
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Does it matter from which side you knock the pins out from?
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Wanting an update on the primer issue.
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I just collected all of my courage and polished the hammer hooks. Wow. I had already polished the underside as well as the face of the sear and the grittyness was reduced, but still noticeable. After a few careful and weak strokes with 400 and 1000 grit sandpaper over the hammer hooks (sandpaper simply put around the magazine brake) I reassembled the gun and the dryfire is already promising. Together with a 13# hammer spring the trigger is already way better than stock (that had not been THAT bad).
If it wasn?t for the 75 Sport (SA only, professional trigger-job done, nearly a hair-trigger) I dryfired yesterday I?d estimate this as the beginning of a trigger becoming a good one. Even before taking out the bar and polishing it. The upper side of the bar looks neat as it is, but the cuts on the backside sure could need some work, currently showing deep machine marks.
A big thank you to all of you, namely schmeky and nothing for providing such well-founded how-to instructions! All I did today was achieved within 12 minutes, using only my leatherman - no punches, no hammers, no scratches on any part. It?s amazing how fast the unknown turns into routine as soon as you dare to touch it.
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Your Trigger Job looks very nice, but now-you know the new business model of Photobucket has changed-the pictures quality is very poor now. Do you see any possibility to store the picture in the forum now.
Thanks a lot
bef
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Unfortunately the Quality of the Pictures makes all your work unreproduceble.
:(
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Unfortunately the Quality of the Pictures makes all your work unreproduceble.
:(
REALLY ??? This man did a great job. anybody that can't reproduce it shouldn't be taking a gun apart.
On my po7 and po9 I got a very smooth and low pound trigger pull because of the information on this forum.
Rantoschae , this is your second post, and this is how you introduce yourself, yeah ok.
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Unfortunately the Quality of the Pictures makes all your work unreproduceble.
:(
REALLY ??? This man did a great job. anybody that can't reproduce it shouldn't be taking a gun apart.
On my po7 and po9 I got a very smooth and low pound trigger pull because of the information on this forum.
Rantoschae , this is your second post, and this is how you introduce yourself, yeah ok.
looks like P-bucket did blur all of the pictures (probably to extort $$ to not mess up the account)