The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Right to Keep and Bear Arms => Topic started by: Dave Workman on February 22, 2012, 10:06:36 PM
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CBS has new revelation in Zapata slaying, and Sen. Grassley is not happy
CBS News? Sharyl Attkisson is reporting that a Texas man has been convicted for trafficking a firearm connected to the murder of Jaime Zapata, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent killed more than a year ago in a Mexican ambush.
This came as a surprise to Sen. Charles Grassley?
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/cbs-has-new-revelation-zapata-slaying-and-sen-grassley-is-not-happy
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Indictments. NOW.
:(
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How much deeper does this cesspool go. Methinks we've only seen the top layer of scum that is many feet deep.
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My money is that it goes to very gun-hating top!
MC in rural SC
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Issa, Grassley push Holder for answers in Zapata slaying
Congressman Darrell Issa and Senator Charles Grassley today sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder demanding answers regarding the slaying of Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata more than a year ago.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/breaking-issa-grassley-push-holder-for-answers-zapata-slaying
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Ya know, I'm already on blood pressure meds, I don't know how much more of the lies, stonewalling, and in-your-face arrogance I can take before I get hospitalized for popping a gasket!
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I've been wondering what the deal was with Jaime Zapata, with it all shoved way under the rug. Bad enough the scant information & attention regarding DEAD Brian Terry, DEAD with F&F guns, but yes, the same goes for Zapata.
Also hundereds of DEAD Mexican citizens, killed with F&F guns, and that's only the cases where they got busted cold, had to admit it, not including the probably 10 times as many that weren't accurately reported. Over 2,000 guns smuggled & recovered, many, many more smuggled & not yet recovered & tied to F&F.
Also 3-4 or more different programs in addition to F&F, like Texas, Florida, Colorado [?] etc. where the same 'under the radar' methods of illegal gun smuggling with no tracking have occurred.
H-U-G-E and very TOP heavy....
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I have said this before: I hope this investigation last months and months, with it all coming to a head in September or October!
In the meanwhile, just turn the heat up a little more each week. Eventually, the MSM will have to cover it!!
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Well, if the investigation explodes all over the news on, say, Oct. 31, that'll be good enough for me.
;)
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The October non-surprise.
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The October non-surprise.
Issa to CNN: ?We?ve been lied to by DoJ?
California Congressman Darrell Issa has evidently gotten his ?second wind? and in a Thursday evening interview with CNN?s Anderson Cooper regarding Operation Fast and Furious and a similar project in Texas, accused the Justice Department and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives of lying to Congress.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/issa-to-cnn-we-ve-been-lied-to-by-doj
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YEEEEE-HAAAAW! Ride that littly dogy down, cowboy, giddy-up! Put some spurs and leather to it! When you get 'em corraled up we got the rope, the horse and that venerable old tree of swift justice waiting!!! :) :) :)
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Indict!!!! >:( No more bleepfooting around!
Also, congrats on the book news, well done!
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Another F&F ?doc dump? as interest renewed in probe
The late Friday document dump ? presumably so it will get lost in the weekend ? has become a habit of Eric Holder?s Justice Department in the on-going Congressional probe of Operation Fast and Furious, so yesterday?s delivery should be nothing new.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/another-f-f-doc-dump-as-interest-renewed-probe
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I honestly believe that Holder and Co., will not do anything until it is rubbed in their noses that they aren't above the law, and even then the threat of a Presidential pardon is real.
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Grassley, Issa want more answers about F&F suspect
Following Monday?s revelation by the Los Angeles Times that a chief suspect in the Operation Fast and Furious investigation was detained in May 2010 on the Arizona-Mexico border, but subsequently released, Sen. Charles Grassley and Congressman Darrell Issa want some answers.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/breaking-grassley-issa-want-more-answers-about-f-f-suspect
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Stupidity or deliberate acts?
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More than once I've seen where politicos in high places would rather feign stupidity and incompetence than let the cat out of the bag on the true plans afoot. It's just about worn out to tatters this whole crock of "I/We just had no idea...." or "Trust me, we were as surprised as you are..." [even though they were personally riding whatever thing like a bareback horse].
Isaa, Grassley, many in Congress and a whole lot of American citizens now see that it's virtually impossible for Holder to have been unaware, plus he's incriminated by so many written messages he received and responded to. It's beyond ridiculous to imagine that Holder would not have notified his superior, his only superior, in the chain of command, to keep him informed on an ongoing program that's so critical to their shared ideals of proving American guns are the cause of most Mexican violence. Also highly unlikely he had the necessary authority to coordinate and control all the various federal agencies, like a dozen or so, that were directly involved.
We know that they all knew; and they know that we know they all knew, but they'll go down kicking, biting and scratching to do all they can to hide the hard proof. You gotta figure if these are men that see Brian Terry, Jaime Zapata and over 200 dead Mexican citizens as 'acceptable losses' in their conspiracy that they'll obviously go to any length necessary to protect their ass-ets. Any length...
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?The ATF sat and watched? says Hill source about latest F&F revelation
New revelations in recent days about how a prime suspect in Operation Fast and Furious was interviewed and released in southern Arizona in 2010 ? on what amounted to a flimsy promise to cooperate ? brought a blistering observation about how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives mishandled the gun trafficking investigation that allowed an estimated 2,000 guns to be ?walked? into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/the-atf-sat-and-watched-says-hill-source-about-latest-f-f-revelation
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Ya know, I'm already on blood pressure meds, I don't know how much more of the lies, stonewalling, and in-your-face arrogance I can take before I get hospitalized for popping a gasket!
+100 on this. Me TOO...... it is just sickening.
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Thanks for reminding me, [Sheriff Buford T. Justice Voice] Ohhhhhmmmmm, Ohhhhmmmmmm[/Sheriff Buford T. Justice Voice]
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Well, (sheriff Justice weighing in here, too)
Dis is nuthin' but outright Communism!
Now, who do I call a "moose pr---ck?"
Issa to Fox News: ?We are moving toward?contempt? on Holder
Congressman Darrell Issa told Fox News Thursday morning that he is moving slowly and methodically, building a case for Congress to vote on a contempt citation against Attorney General Eric Holder over his failure to cooperate fully with the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/issa-to-fox-news-we-are-moving-toward-contempt-on-holder
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I certainly admire Issa and Grassley for their bold defense of America and the taxpayer citizens. It seems it would take nothing short of an act of God to get the rest of Congress up off their dead country club keysters to actually do some work for a change. If they ever did rise from the dead they could press contempt charges against Holder's boss for his stonewalling and ignoring Congress and for all his actions in contempt of Congress and of the United State's Constitution and the will of the people. Fat chance...
Only thing I can think is that they're afraid of paybacks, paybacks of the worst kind by the Chicago mafia thugs. That may be a valid fear considering Andrew Breitbart's untimely and unexpected demise immediately after challenging the powers that be...?
Holder made it clear just the other day that his and this current administration's philosophy is that it is perfectly legal and acceptable to murder by long distance any person including American citizens judged by the administration, not Congress and the legal system, as an 'Enemy of the State'. Pretty scary crowd in general with their outlook on 'Accepatable losses' if pushing an agenda.
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At the link, a timely commentary on same:
http://www.grassfire.com/21098/offer.asp?Ref_ID=10030&RID=34691238
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I think the strangest thing is the lack of sound from across the border, that Mexico made some brief bleats, then subsided back into the occasional, "It's all the fault of you American gun owners and gun shop owners!" like a sad song heard on cracked vinyl. BIG payoffs, or part of the collusion?
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"BIG payoffs, or part of the collusion?"
Ummmm, how's about BIG payoffs AND part of the collusion?
That whole country runs on juice and kickbacks, it's been a way of life for hundreds of years, sad to say. We're talking bribery central and at least in the past it goes from the very top to the very bottom.
I did somebody a good turn years back and in return I had an offer of a free villa down there on the coast. They told me right up front that wifey's brother was chief of police [actually more like a county sheriff but I don't understand their system] so I'd be free to carry on life there any way I wanted, never a worry for the rest of my days. To make it clear, that would include smuggling, murder or any other crime I happened to commit! The Federales are on the take too.
My guess is extraordinary kickbacks in all directions. I recall there was an issue of an awful lot of money unaccounted for in some American agencie's budgets, large millions and billions. They were involved in this up to their hairlines.
Overall, there's not a whole lot of differene between the Mexican way of doing business and the various govt. offices stateside, it all runs on bribes, kickbacks, special favors, threats and extortion. For the various extortions we see the random expose' and unfortunate accidents as a word to the wise.
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Are reasons for Fast & Furious cover-up becoming clear?
More breaking news about how Manuel Fabian Celis-Acosta ? the chief gun smuggling suspect in Operation Fast and Furious ? was released more than once by U.S. authorities who had him in custody and probable cause to keep him there is beginning to suggest why there has been such an effort by the Justice Department to keep this story under wraps.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/are-reasons-for-fast-furious-cover-up-becoming-clear
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Is the Inspector General a political appointee/ can her position be threatened by the current Administration? That could heavily influence the timing decision.
I agree, it IS evidence they never want to see public, and if Dear Leader wins re-election, we will never see it.
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Is the Inspector General a political appointee/ can her position be threatened by the current Administration? That could heavily influence the timing decision.
I agree, it IS evidence they never want to see public, and if Dear Leader wins re-election, we will never see it.
Armoredman: I believe you are on to something as this update suggests:
F&F gun buyer in Terry murder to change plea; Holder not questioned yet?
The man who allegedly purchased two rifles recovered at the murder scene of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry in December 2010 will reportedly change his plea Thursday in Federal court in Phoenix.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/f-f-gun-buyer-terry-murder-to-change-plea-holder-not-questioned-yet
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Is the Inspector General a political appointee/ can her position be threatened by the current Administration? That could heavily influence the timing decision.
I agree, it IS evidence they never want to see public, and if Dear Leader wins re-election, we will never see it.
I guess it doesn't matter much because either way she is a former co-worker with Holder and they worked on the same projects together. Now if she is an employee assistant of DOJ and he is Attorney General DIRECTOR of DOJ, ummmm.....could it be much more obvious?
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Common sense would dictate anyone investigating someone has to be out of that chain of command, and not subordinate to the investigatee. However, common sense and Washington D.C. are two mutually exclusive terms.
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And according to NPR the dude in AZ plead guilty to those weapons charges today.
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I heard that - sweetheart deal to keep him from testifying in open court?
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I'm really surprised he did not get some sort of accessory to murder charge.
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White House thumbs nose at Grassley, Issa over F&F request
The Gun Rights Examiner has obtained a copy of an April 5 letter sent to Issa and Grassley by Kathryn Ruemmler, counsel to the president. In the letter, she tells them?
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/white-house-thumbs-nose-at-grassley-issa-over-f-f-request
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Now what? Indict White House counsel?
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Indict them all.
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I'm all for small efficient government, so:
Speedy trials -
Rope > Horse > Tree
Simple.....
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No Pulitzers for Fast and Furious coverage, no surprise
Pulitzer Prize winners were announced Monday and among them were the Seattle Times and Seattle?s alternative newspaper The Stranger, but surprise of surprises, nobody working to expose the Operation Fast and Furious scandal even got an honorable mention.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/no-pulitzers-for-fast-and-furious-coverage-no-surprise
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GSA scandal proves Fast & Furious is ?tip of the iceberg?
Ironically, the same man ? Congressman Darrell Issa ? is investigating both scandals as head of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/gsa-scandal-proves-fast-furious-is-tip-of-the-iceberg
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We live in interesting times. What will become of this, and us?
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We live in interesting times. What will become of this, and us?
Just my opinion, everybody's got one of those, and just my Belief, everybody has one of those too. My opinion and Belief is that we will survive, and that we must. It is also my Belief that it's all part of a 'God thing' being revealed right before our eyes, and before the eyes of America and the world. I'm also quite sure I wouldn't want to be in any of those pairs of shoes, no, not at all and not for a moment! Only one thing is truly Free and this isn't it. There's a price to be paid...
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Don't you fret your head over the price. We'll just add it to the national debt and plunge blindly and blissfully forward.
(I cannot figure out how to insert a sarcasm tag)
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Ha, and don't you worry either, the board managed to insert the sarcasm tag for you... ;)
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/apr/27/gowdy-and-issa-contempt-charges-holder-coming-memo/
Congressman Trey Gowdy, South Carolina Republican, appeared on Fox News Channel's On the Record with Greta Van Susteren Thursday night and said that Attorney General Eric Holder must comply with the subpoena to put forth all the documents relating to the Fast and Furious gun walking operation before Memorial Day or the AG will face contempt charges that have already been drawn up: (bolding is mine)
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I'm just waiting to hear the dull THUD of that contempt citation on Holder's desk.
I'm sick to death over the games being played by the administration in this serious matter.
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"I'm sick to death over the games being played by the administration in this serious matter."
Yes, that's one of the most disturbing aspects. It's as if a king on a throne who would simply wave his hand and declare, "Away with him, he troubles me..." and it shall be done post haste.
It's obviously not only serious, but deadly serious, for hundreds of Mexican citizens and two American Federal agents, and that's just the ones we know about. If the deaths issue is anything like the admissions of how many guns were walked, '...a few...' meaning over 2,000, well?
One of the most serious series of events in the history of the USA!
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It just doesn't quit! Try to maintain your composure while reading through this upchuck about the new BATFE Report:
http://www.newsmax.com/US/mexico-guns-atf-scandal/2012/04/30/id/437530
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And the story just gets worse and worse.
Guns from F&F linked to the 2010 murder of Mexican lawyer Mario Gonz?lez Rodr?guez who was the brother of former Chihuahua state attorney general. His sister was the AG at the time of his kidnap and murder.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_20518887/report-guns-used-mexico-lawyers-murder-traced-atf-operation?source=most_viewed
This story also offers some more details in connection to the reported 68,000 weapons mentioned in the story Spirit 1 links above.
Dear Sen. Grassley and Rep. Issa. It's time to release the hounds. These weasels in the DoJ and ATF need to be dealt with NOW.
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...and they didn't tell her for 8 months...
You'd think after ten years working in prisons I'd get used to the depravity and barrenness of men's souls, but I don't. Those responsible need to be held accountable, FULLY accountable.
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I'm still completely overwhelmed with utter amazement that this huge and complex operation, this well coordinated subterfuge, could have ever happened in the U.S.A. The America that I know and love with all my heart has been turned into a freakish nightmare that's unrecognizable in just 30-40 years!! Keep wishing I'd wake up....
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http://ology.com/post/76914/john-boehner-to-darrell-issa-not-so-fast-on-eric-holder-contempt-charges
It all sounds like a nice way of saying, "Why don't you drop it, buddy?"
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http://ology.com/post/76914/john-boehner-to-darrell-issa-not-so-fast-on-eric-holder-contempt-charges
It all sounds like a nice way of saying, "Why don't you drop it, buddy?"
Article sounds like a leftist birthday wish!
As I said previously on this forum, I hope this investigation lasts for months. A CBS reporter, Sharyl Attkisson, is following this story and getting stonewalled by DoJ. Her stories are starting to make CBS rethink their 0bummer kool-aid policy!
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Boehner? Let's see, isn't that the sniveling sissy pretty boy, the favorite golf-playing chum of the king-in-his-own-mind Obama? I wonder how these guys ever shake hands, with their palms so greasy all the time? Surprised he can even hold on to a golf club.
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http://ology.com/post/76914/john-boehner-to-darrell-issa-not-so-fast-on-eric-holder-contempt-charges
It all sounds like a nice way of saying, "Why don't you drop it, buddy?"
Gutless cowardly "Politics as Usual"! Boehner is not down for the fight, even with a strong hand/plenty of ammunition, figuratively speaking! Were this Party match up the other way around, the Democrats would not even hesitate to pursue Republican Blood!
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Boehner is definitely a non conservative RINO. As for the article,
Much like Solyndra, Fast and Furious has taken on epic proportions for conservatives, mostly to compensate for the Obama administration's relative lack of legitimate scandals,
The list of real and dire political scandals is as long as my arm, and ignored by MS. BUT, this is a gun board, and we try to keep our politiking to gun issues. F&F will be a serious nail in the Obama campaign, and I can only hope real Americans realize what Boehner did as well, in delaying this action against someone so incredibly deserving of it. People DIED due this ineptitude and deliberate obfuscation, and the Speaker of the House can only worry about "looking bad"...
Stop playing with our core fundamental Constitutional rights and peoples lives, sir, and serve that man!
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Boehner is definitely a non conservative RINO. As for the article,
Much like Solyndra, Fast and Furious has taken on epic proportions for conservatives, mostly to compensate for the Obama administration's relative lack of legitimate scandals,
The list of real and dire political scandals is as long as my arm, and ignored by MS. BUT, this is a gun board, and we try to keep our politiking to gun issues. F&F will be a serious nail in the Obama campaign, and I can only hope real Americans realize what Boehner did as well, in delaying this action against someone so incredibly deserving of it. People DIED due this ineptitude and deliberate obfuscation, and the Speaker of the House can only worry about "looking bad"...
Stop playing with our core fundamental Constitutional rights and peoples lives, sir, and serve that man!
The reason for the post was not so much for the side or comment that was made but bringing awareness to the obstacle Boehner is becoming. I personally think that there is a lot of issues with this administation along with the F&F operation.
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Just when you think things can't get worse...along comes the ATF to pop that bubble...
(From the "You ain't gonna believe this" department)
Another ATF foul-up in Seattle, or business as usual?
The imprisonment of a convicted felon for sexual abuse of an 18-year-old woman made big news over the weekend in Seattle, but the detail that should set off alarms across the map is that this particular man ? Joshua Allan Jackson ? happened to be a paid informant for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
http://www.examiner.com/article/another-atf-foul-up-seattle-or-business-as-usual
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Leadership Conference runs interference for Holder on F&F
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights (LCCHR) is trying to derail an effort to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress over his lack of cooperation in the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious.
http://www.examiner.com/article/leadership-conference-runs-interference-for-holder-on-f-f
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I agree, they want F&F to die, nobody in Washington wants the corruption exposed all the way up the line that will make the US look like a third world nation, politically. A nice juicy political deal under the table and it all goes away as America turns back to eagerly await the next Dancing With the Stars. >:(
Anti civil rights? They forgot SCOTUS held the 2A as a core fundamental right too...guess it's very PC to simply forget that ever happened, sweep that under the rug, too.
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I agree, they want F&F to die, nobody in Washington wants the corruption exposed all the way up the line that will make the US look like a third world nation, politically. A nice juicy political deal under the table and it all goes away as America turns back to eagerly await the next Dancing With the Stars. >:(
Anti civil rights? They forgot SCOTUS held the 2A as a core fundamental right too...guess it's very PC to simply forget that ever happened, sweep that under the rug, too.
Well, they're gonna have a hell of a time making it croak now:
New F&F docs show senior DoJ officials knew about ?reckless tactics?
New documents uncovered in the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious show that senior Justice Department officials knew about the ?reckless tactics? used in the gun trafficking sting, Congressman Darrell Issa alleged in a letter sent today to Attorney General Eric Holder.
http://www.examiner.com/article/breaking-new-f-f-docs-show-senior-doj-officials-knew-about-reckless-tactics
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Now will this revelation give impetus to the contempt citation? Those of us here in flyover country already hold him in great contempt.
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The drip, drip, ..drip, ....drip,.....drip, ...........dripping continues.
I hope it continues right up to November 5th!
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Now will this revelation give impetus to the contempt citation? Those of us here in flyover country already hold him in great contempt.
Right now, the only reluctance seems to be on Boehner's part, and he better fish or cut bait.
Furious hearing?s telling moment was not the Issa-Jackson Lee outburst
Perhaps the most revealing exchange during Thursday?s House Judiciary Committee hearing with Attorney General Eric Holder taking flak over Operation Fast and Furious was not the heated exchange between Darrell Issa and Sheila Jackson Lee, but the confrontation between Holder and Congressman Trey Gowdy.
http://www.examiner.com/article/furious-hearing-s-telling-moment-was-not-the-issa-jackson-lee-outburst?cid=db_articles
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I missed the whole thing, but watched the linked "discussion" between Rep Gowdy and Mr Holder. Mr Gowdt is increasingly earning my respect as a quick witted intellectual who is grounded in reality. Now I suppose I;ll have to catch up on the fight between Mr Issa and Ms Whats-her-name.
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Sickening. I've had a rotten day and I really now wish I had not read this and Dave's links.
Again, Why is this criminal not under indictment?
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Politics, that word that puts the stink in five day old fish.
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Sickening. I've had a rotten day and I really now wish I had not read this and Dave's links.
Again, Why is this criminal not under indictment?
Because he has the NAACP, LCCHR, and others trying to turn this into something that it is not.
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Boehner and the republican establishment will or perhaps already have nuetered the commitee. The commitee appears to be on their own on this one and its going to be impossible to get anything real and lasting done without the entire republican establisment behind this. Boehner has been a church mouse thus far. The big players are reluctant to get behind this. A split in the republican party on something this serious is despicable.
I never liked Boehner from the get go. He's part of the problem.
Imo they don't want to be seen as taking down a black Holder in this. The race card is just under the surface and it scares the republicans as most things do. I think they are content to wait and hope the election takes him out.
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Holder has already played the race card, as it's gone from the weapon of last resort to the weapon of first employ. No matter the validity of the charge, it's unfair because it's racist. I'm heartily sick of that.
Boehner has shown he has a spine made of Jello, and I hope his constituents realize this on Election Day. Republican leadership has been running scared of ANY confrontation for so long that it's ingrained in them; the "appeasement" strategy doesn't work!
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Boehner and the republican establishment will or perhaps already have nuetered the commitee. The commitee appears to be on their own on this one and its going to be impossible to get anything real and lasting done without the entire republican establisment behind this. Boehner has been a church mouse thus far. The big players are reluctant to get behind this. A split in the republican party on something this serious is despicable.
I never liked Boehner from the get go. He's part of the problem.
Imo they don't want to be seen as taking down a black Holder in this. The race card is just under the surface and it scares the republicans as most things do. I think they are content to wait and hope the election takes him out.
You were saying?
There's a quote up front from Boehner.
Holder contempt vote coming next week, says Issa
After months of speculation and threats that some pundits have denounced as empty, the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is scheduled to vote Wednesday, June 20 on whether to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt over Justice Department stonewalling on Operation Fast and Furious.
http://www.examiner.com/article/holder-contempt-vote-coming-next-week-says-issa?cid=db_articles
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This goes one of two ways, Holder provides a small load of documents, and Boehner declares in vast relief that the Justice Dept is co-operating, or they have the vote, and we start down another long path that should have been started a year ago. The way this has been hampered by such open lack of support from the Republican "leadership", plus deliberate interference and obvious partisan politicking by Democrat members leads me to lend little credence to what is said until it is actually done.
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The Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms released a powerful promotional video on Operation Fast and Furious Monday that probably could not have been better timed.
http://www.examiner.com/article/ccrkba-releases-devastating-fast-furious-promo?cid=db_articles
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Removed from YouTube by user...dagnabbit.
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At this moment it's still on here... http://www.youtube.com/embed/GtS_VeoVUeU
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Thanks! 8)
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Holder defenders cry ?political theater? as CCRKBA works out video bugs
Attorney General Eric Holder?s defenders are accusing his critics of engaging in political theater, while the hard-hitting video criticizing Holder ? launched Monday by the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms ? now has the bugs worked out and is back up and running.
http://www.examiner.com/article/holder-defenders-cry-political-theater-as-ccrkba-works-out-video-bugs?cid=db_articles
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Can we get Mr Gowdy to run for President next time?
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What an incredibly idiotic statement, but rather typical for idiots that drink the koolaid:
Quoted by Tuesday?s Washington Post, Miller asserted, ?This is political theater, and it?s been political theater from the beginning. There is no evidence that the attorney general or senior Justice officials knew anything about the Fast and Furious tactics. I don?t think Chairman Issa wants a solution. He wants a contempt vote.?
Speaking of 'political theatre'! The man cannot wrap his head around the fact, the incredibly simple and rudimentary fact, that the entire Contempt proceeding is due solely to HOLDER'S REFUSAl TO PROVIDE THAT SAME EVIDENCE!?!? Clearly this man isn't in touch with reality... :o
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He's just saying what his masters told him to say.
I like that Gowdy fellow. Well spoken. Clearly presented point of view. Too bad he's too good of a man to be President. (At least by the current and recent examples of candidates for the office)
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Holder won't be resigning no surprise there and I have doubts they will vote to find him in contempt.
Boehner and the rest continue to be mute on this subject which tells you where he is on the matter.
So during the hearing Holder says something to the effect that he is willing to sit down and discuss the issue with whoever and discuss what needs to be done in order to avoid a constitutional crisis and that he has offered to do so and is waiting for a response.
Well isn't that wtf he's sitting there for right then?
I heard alot of politicians engaging in political speak and not much more.
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Can we get Mr Gowdy to run for President next time?
Gowdy is a good guy.
He's not crazy. ;D
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Did AG Holder just ?blink? in game of chicken with Issa?
Did Attorney General Eric Holder just blink in a game of high-stakes political chicken with Congressman Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform?
http://www.examiner.com/article/did-ag-holder-just-blink-game-of-chicken-with-issa?cid=db_articles
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He blinked. Now let's see if he had his fingers crossed when he made his promises.
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Holder is stalling. He considers releasing everything but subpeoned documents extraoridinary accomodation?? He is on the run and hopes to stay there until November and considering this thing has been going on approaching 2 years already I'm guessing he wil most likely accomplish that.
The closer we get to the election the more Boehner will try to keep this on the down low. They don't want to take the focus off of the economy and Obama. I only wish they could somehow drag Obama into this mess with culpability for a October surprise.
I find it incredible that a great deal of people do not even have the first clue what Fast and Furious is all about.
I have brought it up in conversation circles and always hear "ya what is that about anyhow"?
Outside of the gun circles this is not on peoples radar at all.
Which in my way of thinking is why Boehner and company don't want to muck up the waters with it.
Again doing the right thing gets kicked to the curb in favor of political strategy. ::)
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'Ladies & gentlemen, please fasten your seat belts, we may be experiencing some unexpected turbulence...'
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/06/sipsey-street-exclusive-investigators.html
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Just read this and want to understand better. Is the turbulence for us or for Holder and Company? From what I am understanding it looks like more is coming to light and this will not help Holder.
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Just read this and want to understand better. Is the turbulence for us or for Holder and Company? From what I am understanding it looks like more is coming to light and this will not help Holder.
That about sums it up.
These guys are in a bit of trouble.
Rasmussen survey shows low support for Holder; CCRKBA says he should quit
A new Rasmussen Survey of likely voters released Friday morning suggests far more Americans want Attorney General Eric Holder to quit than want him to stay, and the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms sides with the majority.
http://www.examiner.com/article/rasmussen-survey-shows-low-support-for-holder-ccrkba-says-he-should-quit?CID=examiner_alerts_article
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Some will say my tin foil hat is too tight, but now I want a far more thorough investigation in the actual killing of Jaime Zapata...with this Administration, I sadly feel almost anything is possible.
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Pard, this is now the craziest story I've ever covered in my 40 year career.
Issa, Holder locked in game of political hardball
Congressman Darrell Issa Friday afternoon made it clear in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder that he is willing to engage in a ?constructive dialogue? about Operation Fast and Furious documents, Holder needs to deliver documents he has offered to the committee prior to any such meeting.
http://www.examiner.com/article/issa-holder-locked-game-of-political-hardball
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It's not hardball. It's a sickening game of Political Theater. What AG Holder did was provide nothing but ammunition for the Dems to cry foul and point to Holder as willing to cooperate and hand over documents and then point at the Republicans as mean old so-n-so's trying to push a political agenda.
While all this political crap is going on Mexican citizens are dying, the families of thousands of the dead are being denied justice and two Federal law enforcement officers are in their graves with nobody having to account for this disgusting fiasco.
Wake up America.
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Hardball would be Holder arrested and jailed. Won't ever see it happen, not with the "appease at all cost!" types still in charge of the Republican party.
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Hardball would be Holder arrested and jailed. Won't ever see it happen, not with the "appease at all cost!" types still in charge of the Republican party.
Truer words were ever spoken. Do you realize the high crimes on both sides are allowed to commit and get away with? If they just continue the politcal redorick long enough the public gets bored and moves on to the next thing. Exactly whats going on here. Just keep talking find an impasse and eventually the clock runs out and game over.
Those of you who think something is ever going to become of this in my opinion you are going to be dissappointed. All the news stories and blogs will not bring Holder to true justice...ever...He's immune.
If justice existed for the elite it would have played out long ago.
The music keeps playing and we all keep dancing.... the real losers are the people. The families of the deceased agents. My heart goes out to them for they will never know justice only the angst of knowing who the guilty are but at the same time knowing they are untouchable, the elite who's agenda and purpose is above even that of their sons who gave their life in vain for a righteous cause. Those families will only have the truth without cause or justice.
A pain not one of us can ever imagine.
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ATF whistleblower speaks as contempt vote looms
Northwest gun rights activists following Operation Fast and Furious got a treat very early Monday ? just 48 hours before a scheduled contempt vote against Attorney General Eric Holder ? when Fox News? William La Jeunesse was told by whistleblower John Dodson that it?s time for that vote, the investigation has dragged on long enough.
http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-whistleblower-speaks-as-contempt-vote-looms?cid=db_articles
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Interesting indeed. I also read the linked Sipey Street irregulars article about the National Security Adviser who suddenly is revealed as a senior player in F&F...I can only hope that if A), the current president is defeated in this elections, then B), all the players of F&F are criminally prosecuted for their roles in the deaths of Brian Terry, Jaime Zapata and a reported 200+ Mexican citizens, plus possible extradition to serve their time in a Mexican prison.
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Interesting indeed. I also read the linked Sipey Street irregulars article about the National Security Adviser who suddenly is revealed as a senior player in F&F...I can only hope that if A), the current president is defeated in this elections, then B), all the players of F&F are criminally prosecuted for their roles in the deaths of Brian Terry, Jaime Zapata and a reported 200+ Mexican citizens, plus possible extradition to serve their time in a Mexican prison.
+ 1 !
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Fox news just now reporting Eric Holder requesting from Obama that Fast and Furious documents remain sealed under executive privledge.
I'm guessing he gets it.
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That didn't take long. Executive privledge has been asserted. Game over...
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No, not necessarily, as Executive Privilege may not cover this - that's only for communications directly linked to Big O. And the timing is pathetic - "Wah, Daddy, they're gonna beat me up if I don't give them back the toys I stole, go tell 'em to leave me ALONE!" And, he pulls this stunt over a YEAR after the investigation started, trying to pull out all stops to save his own disgusting hide. Also notive they can't even get DoJ to admit who wrote the perjured letter to the committee back in Feb!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/20/house-republicans-tee-up-imminent-contempt-vote-against-holder/
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No, not necessarily, as Executive Privilege may not cover this - that's only for communications directly linked to Big O. And the timing is pathetic - "Wah, Daddy, they're gonna beat me up if I don't give them back the toys I stole, go tell 'em to leave me ALONE!" If he did pull this stunt, over a YEAR after the investigation started, then he is trying to pull out all stops to save his own disgusting hide.
And directly linked to the O may be exactly what is going on here. Unfortunately we have Boehner in the position where we need John Bolton. Deals will be cut on this.
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Here is a link to let Speaker John Boehner know what you think about this.
I would encourage everyone to let him know that he needs to have some cajones and continue to persue this, maybe without the cajones part ;)
http://www.speaker.gov/Contact/
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Here is Attorney General Eric Holder?s letter to President Obama asking to assert ?executive privilege?
http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2012/06/20/here-is-attorney-general-eric-holders-letter-to-president-obama-asking-to-assert-executive-privilege/
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My money is on Valerie Jarrett being the one behind Fast & Furious.
If the world knew how much influence this person has as a non-elected 'official' in this administration, there would be a march on Washington!
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The MSM won't allow any real information on this Administration to made public. True and accurate info will come out in about 50 years, if our system of government hasn't been irrevocably altered.
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House Committee votes 23 to 17 to hold AG Eric Holder in contempt.
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That's the only good news today.
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Exactly as predicted, strictly along party lines, every Republican voting for contempt, every Democrat voting to shield the AG.
Full House vote scheduled for next week.
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Hot water is best for cooking gooses. Speaking of a goose being cooked, an analysis of the Contitutionality of Executive Privilege Declaration by the big O at the link. The only way it can apply, according to former Supreme Court decisions, is if the White House had intimate knowledge of the communications that are blocked by the Executive Privilege declaration. By claiming it, White House would have to have had knowledge or involvement in the blocked documents or evidence or activities.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/20/president-obama-attorney-general-holder-and-executive-privilege/
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As mentioned before be sure to contact you congress person and let them know how you feel. We all have time to do this before the next vote. Let your voice be heard.
Here is a link to find you house rep.
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
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Fox news just reported they are hearing from sources the GOP is willing to negotiate a deal to bring the Fast and Furious document dispute to and end.
Nice job Boehner!
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We've heard that before, hope it's as baseless, but I could EASILY see Boehner the Backboneless doing something like that.
NO DEAL, HOWIE!
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As mentioned before be sure to contact you congress person and let them know how you feel. We all have time to do this before the next vote. Let your voice be heard.
Here is a link to find you house rep.
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
The last time I contacted my Congress person to tell them how I felt I had helicopters circling, SWAT teams, APC's and M1 Abrams rolling and they scrambled a couple of F-16's on standby...
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I have seen you commentaries on the forum and you do well with conveying your message. I think you will be alright. 8)
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Press discovers F&F just in time to ?clear? the White House
Count on the mainstream press, including Monday morning?s Seattle Times, to start devoting increased attention to Operation Fast and Furious, but only when it can find a way to distance the Obama White House from the scandal.
http://www.examiner.com/article/press-discovers-f-f-just-time-to-clear-the-white-house?cid=db_articles
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I always wondered why Mr Cummings reminded me of a frog...then it hit me. Wrong word. I should have been thinking, "toady".
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Wow, the Lame-Stream Media must have been issued some marching orders. I read a story on CNN today{0} saying how we should not be prying into the details of F&F and how Holder will be 'taking one for the team' suggesting that the team is 'America'. The writer had the nerve to compare Holder to Oliver North.
I'm a pretty tough guy but all of this garbage makes me weep for this country. Business as usual. Washington style. Corruption from sea to polluted sea.
{0} The story was written by a CNN regular columnist that I up until now thought was pretty level headed.
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CCRKBA pulls out all stops against Holder
With the National Rifle Association poised to count votes and an 11th hour meeting Tuesday between Obama administration officials and representatives from the offices of Darrell Issa and John Boehner falling apart, the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has pulled off the gloves.
http://www.examiner.com/article/ccrkba-pulls-out-all-stops-against-holder?cid=db_articles
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Tomorrow will prove to be very interesting.
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Tomorrow will prove to be very interesting.
That's for sure!
(somebody crank up the Tex Ritter theme song....)
?High Noon? for Holder looms
It will be ?High Noon? on Capitol Hill Thursday for Attorney General Eric Holder, who just might be lucky that a planned vote on contempt ? the first ever for an attorney general ? is held on the same day the U.S. Supreme Court will rule on the Obama health care law.
http://www.examiner.com/article/high-noon-for-holder-looms?cid=db_articles
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Lies lies and more lies...... They the Obama Administration continue to cover up and lie to and beguile the American people, just another example of their dishonesty of the Administration. They lie about the Lybian attacks and they continue with lies about F&F
http://news.yahoo.com/president-obama-falsely-claims-fast-furious-program-begun-154000510--abc-news-politics.html
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Yep, same old song. "It's Bush's fault"...
Sigh.
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The question would really be whether he directly said F&F started under Bush's term, or whether its origins and/or related programs under Project Gunrunner started under Bush's term. The first would be inaccurate, but the second would be accurate.
I found it interesting that Holder was cleared by the DOJ report. Personally, I've never believed the people who suggested F&F was a plot by the anti's to somehow enact stronger anti-firearms legislation or anything along those lines. Rather, it's just another sad example of pure stupidity by our government when they naively thought, with admirable intentions, that this silly project would work.
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I respectfully disagree, as it falls in line with Dear Leaders stated objectives, and the known propensity of leftist politicians to litter their pathway with bodies.
The article said he stated,
"I think it's important for us to understand that the Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration," the president said.
No "misstatement", it's a bald faced lie. Holder was cleared by DoJ, because he's the boss of DoJ, nothing more.
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I'd say it's more of a mistatement. F&F isn't the only one of these programs the government initiated under project gunrunner (which was initiated during the previous president's term) - it's just the largest and most well-known. The program itself that F&F is part of started before Obama took office and involved similar events.
I'm not saying the administration should be off the hook for this. I'm not saying blame Bush for this. Not at all. But assumptions about Obama's secret agenda behind this program, assuming he's lying to promote some secret anti-2nd amendment plan, and so on? I don't buy it. They simply kept the same program started under the previous administration going and expanded it, it was an incredibly stupid program, and it (not surprisingly, given how stupid it was) blew up in their faces. No conspiracy, no secret agendas, just a prime example of how stupid our government can be at times.
As far as the report clearing him solely "because he's the boss of DoJ" and "nothing more", I'd love to see the proof of that. There's a reason GOP lawmakers have backed off this issue in the past few days - their original assumptions aren't supported by the report.
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The Bush era "Operation Wide Receiver" was conducted with the cooperation of the Mexican Government. It was shut down in 2007 when it became apparent that the weapons were being lost. Somewhere around three years later it was re erected by the new kids on the block.
BHO flat out lied when he told the Univision interviewer that "Fast and Furious" was the continuation of a program started during the past administration"
Operation Wide Receiver involved approximately 300 guns. ( Holder's estimate) Fast and Furious involved approximately 2000 guns. (Congressional testimony)
Joe
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Simply government gone wild!!! We have an empty chair in the White House with all incompetent appiontee's AWOL and a spineless congress on vacation until after the election. We finance our enemies. What hell else could possibly go wrong?
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The Bush era "Operation Wide Receiver" was conducted with the cooperation of the Mexican Government. It was shut down in 2007 when it became apparent that the weapons were being lost. Somewhere around three years later it was re erected by the new kids on the block.
BHO flat out lied when he told the Univision interviewer that "Fast and Furious" was the continuation of a program started during the past administration"
Operation Wide Receiver involved approximately 300 guns. ( Holder's estimate) Fast and Furious involved approximately 2000 guns. (Congressional testimony)
Joe
It being a larger operation doesn't mean it's not part of the same program. Again, I'm not blaming Bush for this fiasco, but realize it's effectively the same program started back up again. As such, statements to that effect, while questionable, misleading and ultimately pointless, aren't what I would call out and out lies. There is an element of truth to them.
The operation was incredibly dumb (both times, and particularly the 2nd time after it didn't work before...), but at the end of the day, I've seen nothing to make me think that was anything more than stupidity (which our government has plenty of).
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I respectfully disagree, as it falls in line with Dear Leaders stated objectives, and the known propensity of leftist politicians to litter their pathway with bodies.
The article said he stated,
"I think it's important for us to understand that the Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration," the president said.
No "misstatement", it's a bald faced lie. Holder was cleared by DoJ, because he's the boss of DoJ, nothing more.
I'd say it's more of a mistatement. F&F isn't the only one of these programs the government initiated under project gunrunner (which was initiated during the previous president's term) - it's just the largest and most well-known. The program itself that F&F is part of started before Obama took office and involved similar events.
I'm not saying the administration should be off the hook for this. I'm not saying blame Bush for this. Not at all. But assumptions about Obama's secret agenda behind this program, assuming he's lying to promote some secret anti-2nd amendment plan, and so on? I don't buy it. They simply kept the same program started under the previous administration going and expanded it, it was an incredibly stupid program, and it (not surprisingly, given how stupid it was) blew up in their faces. No conspiracy, no secret agendas, just a prime example of how stupid our government can be at times.
As far as the report clearing him solely "because he's the boss of DoJ" and "nothing more", I'd love to see the proof of that. There's a reason GOP lawmakers have backed off this issue in the past few days - their original assumptions aren't supported by the report.
Well they sure do seem to misspeak a lot. I also recall the misspeaking to be an excuse for Hillary, another gun hater, when she lied about how her and her daughter were having to evade sniper fire when she was visiting Bosnia in 1996 as first lady. How the hell can someone blame that on misspeaking. That was a pure out flat lie. Then with the latest lies about the Lybian attack. This just like their MO. More lies....
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I remember that one from Hillary. She mentioned sniper fire, turns out it was a 12 year old girl reading a poem. ;D
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It being a larger operation doesn't mean it's not part of the same program. Again, I'm not blaming Bush for this fiasco, but realize it's effectively the same program started back up again. As such, statements to that effect, while questionable, misleading and ultimately pointless, aren't what I would call out and out lies. There is an element of truth to them.
The operation was incredibly dumb (both times, and particularly the 2nd time after it didn't work before...), but at the end of the day, I've seen nothing to make me think that was anything more than stupidity (which our government has plenty of).
Let me get this straight, a program is found to be flawed and is canceled. It stays canceled for about three years then the New Kids on the Block decide that the only reason it did not work was because THEY didn't do it. When they fail too it is suddenly because Bush got it wrong. Give me a break!!!!!
Joe
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In all due respect, please point out where I said they only failed because Bush got it wrong. Who knows, maybe it's somewhere buried in between all the statements where I said I don't blame Bush for this whatsoever? ::) If you actually read my posts, particularly the multiple explicit statements on this exact subject, I think it's pretty obvious that's not what I'm saying.
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I can say that with the known qualities of Mexican Federal Law Enforcement, it was stupid for ATFE to try even the limited Wide Receiver program under President Bush - ever firearm sent in supposedly under the watchful eye of Mexican LE went missing. I have lived 60+ miles north of the border most of my life, and I will never cross it - corruption and graft down there makes Chicago look like Plymouth under the Pilgrims.
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I can say that with the known qualities of Mexican Federal Law Enforcement, it was stupid for ATFE to try even the limited Wide Receiver program under President Bush - ever firearm sent in supposedly under the watchful eye of Mexican LE went missing. I have lived 60+ miles north of the border most of my life, and I will never cross it - corruption and graft down there makes Chicago look like Plymouth under the Pilgrims.
+1 Raised in South Texas and know exactly what you are saying.
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There appears to be confusion, likely rooted in blame Bushism, as to the difference between Project Gunrunner, Operation Wide Receiver, and Operation Fast & Furious.
Gunrunner was established during the Bush administration to reduce and deny illegal transfers into Mexico of firearms sold in the US. The project is overt and ongoing and has the support of the Mexican government. It relies principally on the use of eTrace software to identify any firearms of US origin that find there way into Mexico.
Wide Receiver was a covert operation conducted under the auspices of Gunrunner during the Bush administration. It was done with the knowledge and approval of the Mexican government. A few hundred guns were allowed to walk, but each gun contained an embedded tracking device. The operation was terminated during the Bush administration after the ATF lost track of some of the guns. In other words, when the adminstration found out that the operation was less than 100% reliable, they killed it.
During the Obama administration Fast & Furious was initiated. F&F was covert and the Mexican government was not informed about it. Furthermore, no tracking devices were embedded in any of the firearms involved. Thousands of guns were walked and eventually linked to hundreds of deaths in Mexico as well as the deaths of US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and US ICE agent Jamie Zapata. F&F involved the US illegally aiding and abetting the smuggling of arms into Mexico knowing full well that deaths would result. The Obama administration persecuted and still persecutes agency whistleblowers, lied to Congress during the Congressional investigation, and do all they can to obstruct that investigation and confuse their illegal operation with the overriding, but overt and perfectly legitimate Project Gunrunner and the earlier, smaller, and multi-national Operation Wide Receiver, which at least tried to keep track of guns before they were used maliciously.
Calling F&F dumb is an illogical attempt to whitewash the operation. Letting thousands of guns walk without trying to keep track of them can only be nefarious. Lying about it to Congress and the public just reinforces the nefarious nature of the operation. But what can one expect when thd government is turned over to Chicago mobsters?
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Calling F&F dumb is an illogical attempt to whitewash the operation. Letting thousands of guns walk without trying to keep track of them can only be nefarious. Lying about it to Congress and the public just reinforces the nefarious nature of the operation.
Except they did try and keep track of the firearms, by having agents following the purchasers, using wiretaps, etc. Their (naive) goal was the same as the earlier projects, hoping to catch the straw purchasers and to link the purchases to criminal activities taking place on the other side of the border. Dumb? Yes. But so is using RFID (which is ill-suited for these purposes) and eTrace (which merely lets the Mexican government access ATF information related to a firearm they've seized). With full knowledge of the minor differences between these failed operations, I find it hard to believe that someone could label one operation "perfectly legitimate" and the other "illegal" without a heavy political influence.
Reviving an poorly designed operation and implementing it unilaterally on a larger scale is incredibly foolish, but I see nothing nefarious about the facts here and there's absolutely no evidence of such intent. Our government has done far more idiotic things in the past.
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boz,
If I didn't know better, I'd swear I was on MSNBC's website when I read some of your posts.
Fast and Furious was not a revival of Wide Receiver, and the differences between the two operations are hardly trivial. Aiding and abetting smuggling across an international border is a crime. Obstruction of Congress is a crime.
If it was your son who was one of the victims of F&F, would you still think it was just a dumb operation?
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The difference between "stupid but well intentioned" and some "nefarious" plot is intent. Nothing I've seen offers any tangible evidence towards ill-intent on behalf of the administration; rather, it's just pure speculation and tinfoil hattery. I tend to err on the side of "well intentioned", until I see evidence suggesting otherwise, consistent with our innocent until proven guilty legal system. Making it personal doesn't change that analysis. I'm not condoning the actions, nor am I blaming Bush for F&F. I just don't buy it's some evil, anti-gun plot from the highest level of the administration - at least not until I see evidence suggesting it is.
As for the differences between F&F and Wide Receiver, while I never said the differences are trivial, I think there are way more similarities than differences between the two. As far as "aiding and abetting smuggling across an international border", both F&F and previous operations allowed straw purchasers to move guns across the border. Finally, while you listed off some basic criminal offenses, whether these operations or someone's failure to testify constituted a criminal act is an issue for the courts and/or a jury to sort out.
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Finally, while you listed off some basic criminal offenses, whether these operations or someone's failure to testify constituted a criminal act is an issue for the courts and/or a jury to sort out.
That is all I ask. The Committee has been stonewalled at every turn, so it's obvious someone is lying and hiding things. By all means, let it all come out in OPEN court.
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Amen Brother. For everything that has gone on, in F&F.
If the public only new 50% of the details WE THE PEOPLE" might have to build a new SUPER MAX prison for all of the politicians involved!
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Nice thought, Jesses James, but we'd have to wall in an entire state with bars to have one big enough for all the selfish crook politicians and judges etc.