The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => Compact CZ 75s => Topic started by: ut83 on December 25, 2001, 10:30:00 AM
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My compact is having occasional problems...this is a carry gun and cant be carried until I work this out....HELP!!!!!
So far 2 times out of 750-800 rnds..when fired the slide didnt return with a loaded round in the chamber. It stops just short of taking the round out of the mag. I havent stopped to see if the slide lock is activated ...DUH!!!!!!!!!!
I use the stock 10 rnd mags, new with the gun and they are clean. The gun is clean and well lubed. AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!
Recoil spring problem? Ammo problem? Magazine problem?
Any other compact or PCR owners with the same issue?
The ammo was Win white box range and 147 gr Talons.
Both hung up, but I rack the slide and it just continues shooting as is should............
PLEASE any responses will be appreciated...shoot well
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No, I have never had this problem. Is it just those two type of ammo? Are the feed lips very tight? Have you had the feed ramp polished? Throated? Called a witch doctor?
Dave
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Ok, lets see...Does the slide stays all the way back in the locked position, or does it start moving forward, trying to pick up a fresh round, and then getting stuck?
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The slide lock never engages. All I have had to do is rack the slide back and it loads the next round. It acts like it get hung up on something....slide lock pressure without locking, ammo creating friction against the top of the slide...mag spring problem...AAARRRGGHHH!!!!!!!
Today I polished my slide lock where it rubs on the slide..and
polished the slide in the same area. Disassembled, cleaned (didnt need it) and assembled my mags..they look fine.
I have people telling me I am bumping the mag release or putting pressure on the slide lock...I dont think so but I dont
know...It almost acts like bad ammo. Not enough boom to send the slide back into battery and start the cycle over again. It is just getting hung up on something...but doesnt happen often enough to figure it out..it does happen enough
that I am concerned. shoot well
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Hard to diagnose from a distance but my suggestion would be to try different ammo. As you were thinking, it sounds to me like the slide is not going all the way back. Perhaps far enough to eject the spent brass but not far enough to pick up a fresh round from the magazine. I'm assuming the pistol is stock (no extra power recoil spring).
I would think a problem with the magazine would make this happen more often with a fully loaded mag than one with a few rounds out of it.
Perhaps a call to Mike at CZ USA might shed some light on the subject. He may have heard of this happening to someone else. Be prepared though, I kind of doubt you'll be able to get in touch with him before the new year.
Joe
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I am not overly familiar with Black Talon in 147 grain, but I know that most ammo in that weight tends to be subsonic. If the ammo is not "brisk" enough to properly rack the slide, that could be your problem. CZ once told me not to shoot subsonic ammo in my fullsize 75 for a similar problem. Let us know how it goes.
BTW, 115+p or +p+ has a much better stopping record than this heavy stiff. Personally, I never carry anthing heavier than 124 grain in my 9MM's.
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I was seriously wondering if it was just junk ammo. The win white box..never had a problem with it, until last weekend.
The Talons..I dont carry, I bought a box of 50 in WY. Last year on a sales trip....10$ Figured what the h*ll! They were
actually pretty stout shooters. I am sure the bullet length on the 147's had something to do with it..have heard it before.
I carry 124 gr GOLD DOTS...Easy to find, accurate and plenty of oomph! But hesitate to carry this gun until I solve my problem...which I dont know if I will ever nail exactly what it is. Oh well...just keep shooting and paying attention.
I do have a Wolf spring on the way, 20# over the 17# stocker. I see it helping a little....I will let you know how it
goes and thanks for the help.
Shoot well
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ut, if you have no problem with the GDHPs, so far, run a box through carefully, and see if you have a malf. If not, clean, load up, and carry with confidence. Mike at CZ will help you, but I am starting to think the guys are probably right - it's the ammo. Do get the feed ramp polished and chamber throated, if you can, that put all feeding problems to rest in my guns.
Dave
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I am guessing here, but I would bet that from time to time, you bump into some out of spec ammo ; not the whole batch, just a few rounds. Is there any way for you to meassure (at random) some of that ammo? and compare to what it should be? lenght, dia, etc.
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Getting there...Just dropped by a gun smith in the city and had him give me an opinion. The top lug on the barrel has
a bur along the radius on the muzzle end. I will get rid of it and see what happens. It catches randomly on the bottom of the slide..in the notches making my gun hang up...the slide wouldnt close for him today...open about 10mm. In his opinion the barrel on my gun is too soft....will call czusa and
see if this has been a problem with certain gun.....thanks for all of the help...I will let you all know my results..shoot well
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Sorry to hear about the problems with your gun. I hate it when a trusty peice goes sour on ya. Guns are a lot like women that way. I degress... If you are still keeping up with this post, I would recomend talking to the CZ armorer and seeing what he could do. My friend, the one who introduced me to the CZs, had his CZ75B go bad on him, there were some problems with the slide and magazine. His pistol had been imported by Magnum Research and CZ-USA didn't have a problem with doing the work for him. Best of luck.
Jake
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Update..I very carefully filed my barrel lugs down to "normal" and polished it. I smoothed out the roughness on the inside of the slide...Better than new. But I need to know what this gun is doing to the barrel to abuse it in such a way. The smith I took it too thinks the barrel is soft...shouldnt burr at all. It basically means the barrel is softer than the slide..which makes no sense to me at all. I install the polished barrel, slide and a new 20# wolf recoil spring today.
Ran 100 rnds through it..today not a hickup...I just need to know about the barrel...shoot well
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Hmm i don't kniw..is your Gunsmith a CZ guy?
or has a bad vie of them..
i also don't see how the CZ barrel would be soft. sounds like a out of spec part.
as this is not normal.
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I think I know why my barrel is crowning/burring...not sure though.. I had it explained to me that the barrel wasnt fully locked when fired. The barrel is only catching the top part of the lug with the slide groove when fired. It actually looks like thats exactly what is happening. Now to drive everyone more nuts including me..what would cause this problem?
Shoot well
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Disconnector worn or broken? Barrel lug wrong? This definately sounds like time for Mike at CZ-USA.
Dave
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What is confusing about all this info, is that it doesn't seem to make sense with the malfunction. The first thing to check would be to make sure the mag springs are not too weak. If they are weak, it could cause your malf. especially with the last few rounds. I'd start there. Did it do it with all of your mags?
If it is not the spring, and you KNOW the slide is not coming back all the way after cycling, you can rule out getting caught on the slide lock since it isn't even getting that far back. UNLESS you are pushing up very hard on the slide lock causing severe friction on the slide which I highly doubt.
You said you purcahsed a 20# spring to replace the factory 17# spring. That is exactly opposite of what you would want to do if the spring was the problem. If the spring was too stiff, then you just made it stiffer and should have increased the likely hood of the malf.
Also, if the barrel wasn't going 100% into lockup, this should have no effect on the slide coming back all the way, in fact the slide should be coming back with more than the usual force since it doesn't have to go through the complete unlocking of the barrel.
I can see where having a burr on the lug could slow the slide down on it's travel back, and that could be the problem. I would check the timing of the barrel and the barrel to slide/frame fit to see what the problem is. The extra power recoil spring might help to make sure the slide goes all the way home.
Can not comment on the barrel hardness. Never checked or noticed it to be a problem, but I'm not an expert in that area.
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FTM...good questions.
My mag springs are cz 1 ton truck springs. They are new and clean mags and I really, really doubt they are the problem.
I dont know the slide is coming back as far as it is designed too? How do you tell? It shoots and cycles wonderfully except when I have this ghost = FTF problem. I have had other people who are better at this than I am, watch me shoot and my hand interferring with the slide lock isnt a prob.
I did replace my spring and have had 1 FTF with Win White box which seems to be the main player in my problem. Too much spring pressure for an under loaded round?
I cant comment of the slide coming back too fast because of being fired outside of the locked position. The slide seems to cycle just fine...most of the time.
The problem with the "drag" created by the burr/crown on the barrel against the slide was apparently the problem with my FTF. I am still shooting the gun with the barrel problem corrected and keeping track of reliability...Also checking the
barrel after each shooting session. The burr seems to come back to a minor degree...so the problem persists. I have checked the fit as well as I know how , with my limited experience with this I think it looks good....
Here is a possible theory...its long and boring...but I need input. If I am shooting ammo that isnt up to what the gun
needs to cycle. Then the slide isnt moving at adequate speed. Upon the return stroke the slide, gets the new rnd from the mag, chambers it but doesnt have enough force to get the extractor past the round and the slide stops before it is fully closed.
When the slide doesnt close fully, the barrel isnt locked down, but the round is chambered and can be fired. The position of the barrel, when the extractor gets "hung up" is about where it would need to be to almost but not quite get the lug into the locking groove in the slide. If this happens on a "regular" basis the burr/crown on the barrel will grow and slowly begin to interfere with the slide..slowing things down more. With this interference between the slide and barrel,
the slide will increasingly slow down and consistantly not let
the extractor past the chambered round....see the cycle.????
As you can tell , I have played with my gun and thought of
anything my brain can think up.....what do you think.?????
I am calling CZUSA tomorrow and will let you know...shoot well
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Ok, you have identified something here. If your extractor is having to go OVER the rim of the cartridge while chambering a round, you have a problem. The rim of the cartridge should slide up the breach face UNDER the extractor as it is being pulled from the mag. Does this make sense?
So if your gun chambers the round, but stops just out of battery with the extractor hook touching the rim but not over it, this is the next place to start looking.
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It made sense until I cycle a couple of rounds and saw what it does. The slide pushes the bullet up the feed ramp and it is steep and short enough, its in the chamber before the slide actually is in "battery" ...this is with me hand cycleing it..it may be different when actually firing the gun. And I wont be able to see what its doing then.....
I just realized something....If it was getting hung up on the extractor...It wouldnt extract the spent cartridge! The extractor lip would be behind the rim and couldnt catch the shell, pulling it out...that cant be it. CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has never had a FTE....Ok, back to square one.....
Shoot well
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If you weapon is firing partially out of battery, that is really pretty dangerous. A case may bulge and come apart on you throwing all sorts of little ditties into your hand and gun. I had a Makarov do that to me once, but it was a high primer that the slide ignited as it went into battery. Hurst quite a bit and for a second or two you are sure if you have a hand that will be worth looking at again. Sounds like you barrel might not be properly fitted to the locking lugs in the slide. That will take a gunsmith to fix. Possible that you might need a new barrel.
Now if you guys can tell me why my wife's 1989 Sable is coming out of gear when stopping I would appreciate it. (Just kidding)
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If its a stick , you have back Synchro's..little bronze gears and bushings that help align your gears and keep them in place. If its an Auto, your shifter has a "patterned" guide that it has to follow"...pull out to shift from drive to any other gear..or push the button to get it from drive if its a floor shifter...when you pull out or push the button ...it releases a "pattern" lock and sometimes the plates with the pattern wear out.....make sense....shoot well
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ut, are you a mechanic? I could have used your service a while ago....
Dave
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Dave...maybe kinda but not really. LOL I grew up restoring and driving old muscle cars with my dad. First engine overhaul at 9 on my ginnue pig honda 70 and its been down hill from there. My dad raced for ford in the early 60's and
its in the blood. I built, drove, raced, repaired and got my own cars impounded for years. I just know a little about cars and luckily dont have to play with them anymore unless I want to. That is all....shoot well
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I want a 67 Mustang for my son, if I can still get the fuel additive when he grows up, or if gasoline is even still available!
Dave
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Dave ...sit down and ponder this question seriously.K?
Will you adopt me.? You can get your 289-390 heads done
to take unleaded fuel. All they do is harden the ex. valve seat
area and sometimes put a new exhaust valve in. Not to expensive and you can become a tree hugging muscle car dude in the process. Shoot well