The Original CZ Forum
ARCHIVES => CZF ARCHIVES II => Emergency Preparedness => Topic started by: GeneticallySwiss on September 18, 2012, 08:29:58 AM
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Aside from a serious CZ addiction (which I understand and can empathize with ;D), why do some of you own a VZ-58 instead of a quality AK? I know they are respectable rifles and certainly have no issues with them. But if the SHTF the amount of AK's and associated replacement parts out there dwarfs that of the VZ-58. Just curious.
GS
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youre assuming people buy the VZ for when the SHTF. I dont buy ANY of my guns for that purpose.
also, SHTF means different things to different people. some people will have issues when Toilet paper runs out, some when zombies walk the street. for some it will be the apocalypse or if Obama gets elected for a 2nd term.
one of the reasons i have more then 1 gun is that i can shoot anyone i have at any time i choose no matter the sit.
also, if the SHTF dont you think there will be more then enough guns out there in all flavors for you to choose. whats the line that Sam Elliotts character say in "We Were Solders" about having a weapon...
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I guess my thinking has always been a little more in line with what Swiss is suggesting. When I was in my teens, during the Cold War era when the prospect of a Soviet invasion was not so far fetched, at least to the extent that even movies and novels have played on the scenario, I in my vivid imagination and as a wannabe fiction writer, adopted the tactical philosophy that for a resistance movement during and following an invasion and takeover by an enemy entity, you do want to make use of the weapons of the enemy. It is for that reason that I developed an interest in and began to educate myself on Soviet military small weapons. This was before the days of the AK (I believe, as I don't recall knowing anything about them at the time) and it's not really the Soviet army we think about so much today. We do have other enemies though who have proclaimed their desire to through force if necessary take us back to the 7th Century. Ok, I don't want to venture off into the realm of politics so I'll just say that the AK is in wide use by fighting forces which are very active now.
Besides, just because, I'd love to have an AK. Regardless of the potential real or perceived need in an emergency I think they are mechanically cool weapons.
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I like the fact that the VZ 58 (and the SKS for that matter) eject shell casings out of the top instead of one side like the AK-47. That way I can easily shoot left-handed or right-handed depending on the situation and available cover.
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I don't see a reason to pick one or the other. Personally, I own an AK (Saiga conversion) at the moment and not a VZ, but that's not say I won't own both one day. I may pick-up a VZ one of these days, but since I don't shoot a lot of rifles period (clays, steel, and other things tend to be way more fun :P), I haven't gotten around to it yet.
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I own both, currently and doubt I would need replacement parts for either. 8)
That said, Murphy's law says both may need them. :( Getting gun parts for either locally could be a problem as none of the local gun shops stock any parts with the exception of some 1911 and AR15 parts. Invariably, whatever part I may need will be the one they do not have. :(
Provided I am at home, I can always switch over to a different firearm, should whatever I am using, become disabled. :)
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I tend to think that the immediate need would not be parts but ammo. In that realm both would be fine to have. I bought the vz 58 for its design and reputation in terms of quality and shootability and i like that it can shoot cheap steel rounds and military surplus so i have what i think is acceptable on hand. However.... i do think that an ar15 in 556 would be a good investment. The .223 is the civilian 556. This design was intentional as the military wanted to be able to use civilian ammo if needed in their weapons hence a .223 in. 556, however the same can not be said for 556 in a .223. Some rifles just can't handle it at all, others (like some bolt actions) may be able to tolerate just a cautious number of rounds. I still really want a 527 carbine as a back up for my vz 58. Also, you should try to beat murphy to the pass by purchasing parts now that you may need in the future. You can probably order just about all the parts you would need for a vz 58 for around 240.00. Not bad at all.
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I spent years pining away for an Arsenal SGL series AK. When I had the money / opportunity, I had come around more to the VZ58 because it was different. Man I love the looks of an AK47, but the VZ had several plus's to the list such as a milled receiver which you pay through the nose for in an AK and a more conveniently located safety.
I might still pick up an Izmash AK some day, but I'm pretty happy with my VZ considering the quirky issues mine came with that seem non existent to others...
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I don't own one yet ... but when I eventually will it's simply for the appreciation that the Czech had the balls to improve on a design that everybody else just copied as it was!
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I don't own one yet ... but when I eventually will it's simply for the appreciation that the Czech had the balls to improve on a design that everybody else just copied as it was!
I like the way you think! ;D I really appreciate the comments guys, thanks.
GS
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If you're talking how to grab weapons and ammo laying about during an invasion, the best choice for that exact scenario would be an AR-15, as it will be our boys gear lying in the streets if we get rolled, not the enemy. You could PLAN on attacking the enemy, but remember the AK-74 is the Russian front line rifle, not the AK-47, and has been for many years - ammo/magazines are kinda not compatible. :o
I love my SA vz-58 rifle for many reasons, being it's light, handy accurate and reliable, and I do have a bunch of mags, but I just can't see my fat old self standing up wearing my CzechpointUSA Czech Police trooper hat yelling, "Wolverines!" ;D
I also can say that if such a wild scenario DID occur, I have no doubt my rifle will do just fine, and huge number of magazines hopefully won't be a problem - I plan on LEAVING the scene of a firefight if I can.
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My VZ58 is more accurate and lighter than my AK47's. The AK47 is more robust in the heavy dirt, which would choke the VZ58. In stock configuration, the VZ58 aims more ergonomically for me. With a folding stock, it probably would not.
If I were traveling far, I would put a folder on the VZ58, carry a few mags and lots of boxes of ammo in my pack. If going through a dusty desert, I would pick the AK.
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Hmm, I'll have to take mine on a camping/hunting trip here in AZ, see if the dust really does choke it. Interesting - did you see any reports from Afghanistan of the Czech troops having issues with their vz-58s? Not being snarky, genuinely curious - I can't read all the news I'd like to.
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impervious to dust
just look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbZ12tD3Buk&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbZ12tD3Buk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
craaaazy !
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When TSHTF, all the weapons and gear you deserve will be personally delivered to you by the Blue Hat Delivery Service.
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That mud test is a little unrealistic - even a guerrilla fighter would hose off a gun he found buried.
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I've seen that video before.
I don't care what rifle or pistol you like. If I pack any of them full of dirt, mud, water, grass, rocks, etc, especially the action. You'll get similar results.
I mean shake in a river first. Or at least piss on it first. I get what that guy is trying to do. But it's 110% unrealistic. Even if you're running along in a fight and drop your rifle in the mud. Especially if the action is open. I wouldn't expect any rifle to work 100%.
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I have owned both. I got rid of my AKM and bought a second Vz. 58, because it was much more accurate, lighter, had an all metal flooding stock as standard, could be loaded via strippers so is interopperable with the SKS's we own, has the cleaner short stroke gas piston, and has last round bolt hold open. I plan on picking up a few parts kits for replacement parts, but have the spare rifle if needed for parts.
No regrets at all for going Vz over AKM.
Now if only Century would make a micro pistol version of the Vz!