The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Right to Keep and Bear Arms => Topic started by: armoredman on September 29, 2012, 12:25:25 PM
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http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/uk-judges-revive-right-to-self-defense.aspx
The tide may be turning back in a public way.
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Great News!!! 8) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-bounce014.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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It harkens back to days of yore when a man's home was his castle. Good on those judges.
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It's about time. That is great news.. 8)
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Piers Morgan won't be happy. He is always throwing out much better England is with their bans. Actually his very anit-american.
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Piers Morgan won't be happy. He is always throwing out much better England is with their bans. Actually his very anit-american.
He's pro British. There's a difference. If all you have to add to this good news is an unrelated snide comment, find another thread.
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Glad to hear they were released, although 66 hours in police custody is quite a long time. As the article points out, it's a bit baffling to encourage people to use their firearms in defense of their home, while at the same time their government largely denies them the right to own many firearms. In any event, change has to start somewhere, and it's good to see them heading in the right direction. :)
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Piers Morgan won't be happy. He is always throwing out much better England is with their bans. Actually his very anit-american.
He's pro British. There's a difference. If all you have to add to this good news is an unrelated snide comment, find another thread.
I'd be happy to delete mine if it bothers you so much.
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Okay, you cant take a hint. Moderated status 7 days.
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Finally. I hope this snowballs into more general gun rights for the brits
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Kudos to the Judge.
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I would say "kudos to common sense."
I don't understand even thinking that we/they shouldn't defend themselves.
Sancho
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After WWII you would think the government of England would "GET IT". It is the people who need to know how to shoot and protect themselves. The people are the ones that make up the military, who fire the guns that win battles and wars.
When Hitler was about to invade England, The British government was begging the USA for guns and instructors on how to defend themselves and their country. As always we (THE PEOPLE OF THE USA) did our part with guns and people who knew how to use them. The rest is history.
You may be asking what dose this have to do with the tread in the forum. First to those who do not know "Study history! for those who do not, history WILL REPEAT ITSELF"!
The British government has beat the idea of not using weapons (guns, knives, swords etc) to defend yourself into the populace of the country and actively punished those that did. This shows how timed the British citizen has become, to the point it is WORLD NEWS when someone in England has the courage of fighting back and survives it's own government.
Since we all know this could never happen again. But just in case it might happen, yet again. We should say "Where are your people, you know the ones that know how to defend themselves and their country, the ones that can and will fight"?
The most telling story (I THINK) is when Yamamoto was asked if he would put Japanese troops on American soil, he said never. Because behind each blade of grass there would be an American with a gun.
I know I am being hateful, But when I see the politicians who want to turn the USA into places like Britain, France, Spain. I ask myself "WHO WILL SAVE US".
WE WILL!!!! I hope. I Pray!
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After WWII you would think the government of England would "GET IT". It is the people who need to know how to shoot and protect themselves. The people are the ones that make up the military, who fire the guns that win battles and wars.
When Hitler was about to invade England, The British government was begging the USA for guns and instructors on how to defend themselves and their country. As always we (THE PEOPLE OF THE USA) did our part with guns and people who knew how to use them. The rest is history.
You may be asking what dose this have to do with the tread in the forum. First to those who do not know "Study history! for those who do not, history WILL REPEAT ITSELF"!
The British government has beat the idea of not using weapons (guns, knives, swords etc) to defend yourself into the populace of the country and actively punished those that did. This shows how timed the British citizen has become, to the point it is WORLD NEWS when someone in England has the courage of fighting back and survives it's own government.
Since we all know this could never happen again. But just in case it might happen, yet again. We should say "Where are your people, you know the ones that know how to defend themselves and their country, the ones that can and will fight"?
The most telling story (I THINK) is when Yamamoto was asked if he would put Japanese troops on American soil, he said never. Because behind each blade of grass there would be an American with a gun.
I know I am being hateful, But when I see the politicians who want to turn the USA into places like Britain, France, Spain. I ask myself "WHO WILL SAVE US".
WE WILL!!!! I hope. I Pray!
This post is full of incorrect assumptions and erroneous information
Churchill and Roosevelt designed 'Lend-Lease' to get around the current public and Federal distaste for getting involved in what was perceived at the time as a European problem. it allowed Roosevelt to tacitly support GB while not losing the support of Congress. Britain had plenty of 'instructors', what it did not have were the warships to protect the merchant convoys bringing oil, steel, coal, and the other requisites of war. As WWII progressed and it became apparent that the US was going to participate 'Lend lease' grew to encompass all the materiel, tanks, planes, etc that would be needed to open the second front.
Despite what the US people may think, the US Congress had little interest in the European theater of conflict, considering their interests to lie to the west in the Pacific. If not for 'Uncle Joe' and the Red Army tying down 100s of German Divisions and aircraft the US/UK invasion would have stood a very good chance of becoming a debacle instead of a triumph. As it was, if The UK hadn't endured the war alone from 1940 - 1941, forcing Hitler to concede defeat in his invasion plans in October 1940 with little to no direct help at all from anyone, including the US, it would have been a case of 'too little-too late' by December 7 1941 when America finally woke up and realized they were in it, like it or not. Hitler knew long before that he could never have subdued the UK even if he forced the surrender of the military forces opposing his troops. The assault on the UK was designed to force a political settlement, rather than a purely military one. As such the American assistance through 'lend-Lease' was vital demonstration to show that the UK could resist Germany indefinitely if it continued even though at that time it yet to become the vital supply route it became later.
As for British Citizens being (sic) 'timed', just ask the USMC, US Army, Navy, Air force, or in fact any of the troops fighting along side UK Forces, in fact ask the relatives of the dead how 'timid' they feel.
This story is news in the US because of the erroneous belief that there is no right of self defense in the UK. This is not, and never has been the case. Where UK law differs from the US is that in the case of deadly force or serious injury there is no equivalent step between investigation and charging such as a Grand Jury which means that the only panel empowered to decide whether force was justified is a jury of one's peers. Thus, when someone dies or is badly injured during the commission of a crime, the prosecutor's office is far more likely to put the matter in front of a jury to decide the facts rather than take the responsibility upon themselves.
Lastly, the Yamamoto quote is an urban legend, he never said it.
Hateful? no. Badly informed, certainly.
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After WWII you would think the government of England would "GET IT". It is the people who need to know how to shoot and protect themselves. The people are the ones that make up the military, who fire the guns that win battles and wars.
When Hitler was about to invade England, The British government was begging the USA for guns and instructors on how to defend themselves and their country. As always we (THE PEOPLE OF THE USA) did our part with guns and people who knew how to use them. The rest is history.
You may be asking what dose this have to do with the tread in the forum. First to those who do not know "Study history! for those who do not, history WILL REPEAT ITSELF"!
The British government has beat the idea of not using weapons (guns, knives, swords etc) to defend yourself into the populace of the country and actively punished those that did. This shows how timed the British citizen has become, to the point it is WORLD NEWS when someone in England has the courage of fighting back and survives it's own government.
Since we all know this could never happen again. But just in case it might happen, yet again. We should say "Where are your people, you know the ones that know how to defend themselves and their country, the ones that can and will fight"?
The most telling story (I THINK) is when Yamamoto was asked if he would put Japanese troops on American soil, he said never. Because behind each blade of grass there would be an American with a gun.
I know I am being hateful, But when I see the politicians who want to turn the USA into places like Britain, France, Spain. I ask myself "WHO WILL SAVE US".
WE WILL!!!! I hope. I Pray!
This post is so full of stupid it's painful.
Hateful? no. Badly informed, certainly.
Wow the members statement may not be hateful but the Moderators sure is...
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Wow the members statement may not be hateful but the Moderators sure is...
It does seem to be inappropriate, especially the words "full of stupid." We are all wrong sometimes but we aren't all full of stupid.
Sancho
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You are correct, and I apologize to the member concerned. Post edited.
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Mr. Moderator, You are a gentelman and scholar. I really thought that I was going to get some lashings or something, but instead I have gained respect for you.
Anyways, it is good to see that there are some positive thing happening in England. I am hopefull that in the next ATT meeting they will be standing by our side.
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Mr. Moderator, You are a gentelman and scholar. I really thought that I was going to get some lashings or something, but instead I have gained respect for you.
Anyways, it is good to see that there are some positive thing happening in England. I am hopefull that in the next ATT meeting they will be standing by our side.
That is why I respect him. I still don't know why the police in England can't carry a gun?
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Mr. Moderator, You are a gentelman and scholar. I really thought that I was going to get some lashings or something, but instead I have gained respect for you.
Anyways, it is good to see that there are some positive thing happening in England. I am hopefull that in the next ATT meeting they will be standing by our side.
That is why I respect him. I still don't know why the police in England can't carry a gun?
Speaking of stupid, that takes the cake. In England, by law, the only ones walking around out on the streets with handguns are criminals. What single group of people are the police tasked with interacting with and dealing with? Criminals! To disarm those same police is in itself a fully criminal act with intent to cause grievious potential bodily harm or death.
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Mr. Moderator, You are a gentelman and scholar. I really thought that I was going to get some lashings or something, but instead I have gained respect for you.
Anyways, it is good to see that there are some positive thing happening in England. I am hopefull that in the next ATT meeting they will be standing by our side.
That is why I respect him. I still don't know why the police in England can't carry a gun?
Speaking of stupid, that takes the cake. In England, by law, the only ones walking around out on the streets with handguns are criminals. What single group of people are the police tasked with interacting with and dealing with? Criminals! To disarm those same police is in itself a fully criminal act with intent to cause grievious potential bodily harm or death.
Again, this is incorrect. While general patrol officers (the Bobby on the beat) do not carry firearms, in London (where I worked) there are routinely always at least 8 response cars with 3 man crews fully equipped with handguns, shotguns, rifles, and smgs. There are also 3 full SWAT teams available to be spun up, one on immediate notice, one on 30 minutes and one on a training cycle. In addition, Diplomatic Protection Group, The Special Escort Group, Royalty Protection, and Territorial Support Group all routinely arm their members. Other units (such as the one I served in) may or may not arm their officers depending on the type of work they are doing. For instance, Operation Trident - a unit that deals with black on black gun crime routinely has armed officers participate in their operations, warrants etc.
It is a myth perpetuated by the 'Brass' and politicians that the UK Copper is an avuncular jovial fellow that does his job with nothing more than a truncheon and his ready wit. In the 15 years I served (mostly in special squads and criminal investigation) nothing could have been further from the truth. We used exactly the same tools as cops in the US have done for years, and with just as much enthusiasm.
Now it's true to say that it's ridiculous that the poor old patrol officer has to go out without a firearm, but as you can see, that's not the whole story.
Incidentally, in my 15 years service, despite what politicians and the management would say, not once was I asked the question: 'Do you support the routine arming of patrol officers?'. Thus their constant harping on about how the 'rank and file' do not wish to be armed is a clear and obvious crock, since every copper I ever served with would have answered not only 'yes' but HELL, YES!"
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Don't beat up Widge until AFTER he votes in November. ;)
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Don't beat up Widge until AFTER he votes in November. ;)
It'll be my 3rd Presidential Election, and you won't have to worry about my vote going to the wrong guy! I still visit and speak with my friends from back then, some of whom still serve and we compare notes (along with tall tales) about our respective LE careers. They really haven't been that different at all. Of course, were I a cop in Detroit or on Chicago's south side maybe it would be another story entirely.
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I stood in line for "over" three hours to vote for Reagan. He wasn't my first. ;D
I was born in Detroit. It was a good place, but started going bad by 1958 when my family moved to another city.. Unless you've been there recently, you really can't imagine how bad it is now. Being downtown after dark is dangerous. I know people who say they don't stop at red lights after dark. I'm not exagerating one iota.
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I stood in line for "over" three hours to vote for Reagan. He wasn't my first. ;D
I was born in Detroit. It was a good place, but started going bad by 1958 when my family moved to another city.. Unless you've been there recently, you really can't imagine how bad it is now. Being downtown after dark is dangerous. I know people who say they don't stop at red lights after dark. I'm not exagerating one iota.
I thought Chicago was bad. I was born in Chicago Heights IL. I was raised out here in Arizona. The city I was in before I moved to Tucson, most people would say I was nuts. This place is full of gangs. Oh well. I have never been to England. I just saw pictures. I looks so green with lots of flowers blooming
Widge, I have always respected you for what you do here and on your job. Maybe some people don't tell you thank you. But if it's ok I am going to say Thank you. I am not trying to kiss up to anyone just to set the record straight. I will not say anything more on this subject. I am more than likely in hot water with my husband anyway.
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You are never "in hot water" with me, honey.
See, this is what I like, contributions from someone who was actually there, that's great.
I hope that the laws turn around in England soon, but it's not just Europe that is different - a friend in Israle couldn't understand how we could have a city maintained, un monitored shooting range out here in AZ, and even though he is very pro self defense, he "wrote it off" to our "crazy" Second Amendment and gun love. Is OK, I'd still welcome him here - we don't get rocketed daily.