The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: 1SOW on December 06, 2013, 10:16:24 PM
-
Open Iron Sights provide horizontal and vertical reference points that allow the shooter to train the weapon. With typical blade iron sights, the shooter should center the front post in the notch of the rear sight and the tops of both sights should be level. Since the eye is only capable of focusing on one plane, and the rear sight, front sight, and target are all in separate planes, only one of those three planes can be in focus. The front sight should be in focus. Target shooters generally prefer a matte black finish to their sights, to reduce the chance of glare and increase the contrast between the sights and the light bars seen on either side of the front sight. , Black sights don't offer good visibility with dark targets or in low light conditions, such as in hunting, military, or self-defense situations.
There are a number of different types of iron sights. Each manufacturer's sight can have different methods of aligning Point of Aim (POA) and Point Of Impact (POI). Adjustable sights allow the individual users to adjust the sights to their preferences as shown in the Bullseye Sights below, which provides a very distinct POA for maximum precision on specific size targets.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3Dg_JubZF2s/UqKISCD-d_I/AAAAAAAACuQ/RXpzPmlYCAM/s507/Typical%2520Sight%2520PicsWith%2520Info.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CM2R0JYARbQ/UqKLcMdOpCI/AAAAAAAACuc/Hkb5Fzz--3E/s221/Sample%2520Sights.jpg)
Various methods of open sight contrast enhancement. Left to right: Three dot, white outline, Straight-eight, red insert, dot and bar, gold bead and other variations..
Three-dot: On semi-automatic handguns, the most common type of enhancement is a bright white dot painted on the front sight near the top of the blade, and a dot on each side of the rear sight notch. In low lighting conditions the front sight dot is centered horizontally between the rear sight dots, with the target placed above the middle (front) dot. Some sight vendors offer differently colored dots for the front and rear sights.
White outline rear: A contrast variation which uses a dot front sight with a thick and bright white outline around the rear sight notch.
Straight Eight: Heinie Specialty Products produces a variant of high visibility sights in which a single dot front sight and a rear notch with a dot below can be lined up vertically to form a figure "eight".
Sight inserts: Popular on revolvers, this enhancement consists of a colored plastic insert in the front sight blade, usually red or orange in color.
Bar/Dot or Express sight: Similar to the Straight Eight type, this type of sight is also found on some handguns. The open, V-shaped rear allows for faster acquisition and wider field of view, though less accurate for longer range precision type shooting. The dot on the front sight is aligned or set directly above the vertical bar on the rear sight, commonly referred to as "Dotting the 'I'".
Night sights: On S.D. & tactical firearms, the contrast enhancements can consist of tubes containing tritium gas, which emit a dim light due to the radioactive decay of the tritium, and fluorescent material. Self-luminous tritium sights provide vital visibility in extremely low light situations where normal sights would be degraded or even useless. The tritium glow is not noticeable in bright conditions such as during daylight however. As a result, some manufacturers have started to integrate fiber optic sights with tritium vials to provide bright, high-contrast firearms sights in both bright and dim conditions.
Fiber optic: This method is most commonly used in front sights, but many makers offer sights that use fiber optics on front and rear sights. Fiber optic sights can now be found on handguns, rifles, and shotguns, both as aftermarket accessories and a growing number of factory guns. A fiber optic front sight is used by many competitors in action shooting competitions.
There are others that generally fit into one of these general types.
SIGHT ALIGNMENT:
As mentioned in the first paragraph, typical simple iron sight alignment centers the front post in the notch of the rear sight and the tops of both sights should be level with the desired POI. With various CONTRAST SIGHTS, this can vary quite a bit from different handgun/sight manufacturers. This can lead to some questions from users with different target options than the sights were designed to hit fast and accurately.
EXAMPLE: 3-DOT Sig Sauer pistol sights are usually aligned by lining up the three dots and placing the center dot ON the desired POI. http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/Faq.aspx
If the tops of the sights are lined up at the "desired" POI, the "actual" POI will be low. The 3-DOT variation shown in the first picture is typical of Sig sights and some others. Aligning the dots on the section of center mass that is for self defense or tactical target use is fast and accurate even in low-light situations. With very small targets or at greater ranges the 3-Dot sights may completely hide the intended target. This is where target sights can still be effective when enough light is present.
A number of questions about iron sights and their use reappear periodically. This attempts to show how different sights require different methods to hit the same bullseye.
Sources for information are compiled from various said-to-be reputable sources on line. Errors are my fault.
Holographic, closed iron sights and various scopes won?t be covered here.
Suggestions for changing, correcting or adding to this HANDGUN OPEN IRON SIGHT thread are welcomed.
-
Thanks for posting this, 1SOW. It's great info and I will be using it to help new shooters.
-
Nice post. This will be a good resource.
-
I would love to get a set of straight eight style for my CZ... not sure if they exist tho..
-
I would love to get a set of straight eight style for my CZ... not sure if they exist tho..
Slide needs to be milled. Can be done.
-
1SOW--Good summary.
I have one gun set up for Bullseye using Target Sight 1, but only because we shoot only at 25 yards and always the same size black area on the targets. In other words, with everything fixed, you can use a 6 o'clock hold. The 6 o'clock hold is helpful with black sight against a black bullseye. I can't see the sights with enough contrast when held at the center of a bullseye target.
All the rest of my guns have been adjusted to get a Target Sight 2 hold at 25 yards, even with the dots or fiber optics, doesn't matter.
The only other variable is the width of the front blade versus the notch in the rear. On the Bullseye gun, I use a very wide front blade and that standard notch on the rear. I had to use a little JB Weld and a file to get the front sight wide enough. On the game gun, I use a narrow front sight with a tall wide rear to get almost a front sight width clear area on each side of the front blade when looking at this one. The Bullseye sight has just a sliver of light on each side of the front blade. Quite a difference. The game gun sight is too narrow for Bullseye and the Bullseye sight is much too wide for games.
I have had to trim EVERY SIG to get to a target sight 2 alignment. I can't handle a line-up-the-dots-and-cover-your-target sight picture. But I haven't been in any gun fights either. I've only battled paper plates and tape squares.
Thanks again,
Joe
-
Thanks for taking the time to compile this.
-
A lot of great info here 1
But here's an Iron Sight "System" you missed
The Goshen HexSite
http://www.goshen-hexsite.com/
Here's Adrian's P-02 with its HexSite:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/Range%20trip%20with%20LarryFlew%20and%20Adrian/Hexghostring2_zps14641254.jpg)
-
I would love to get a set of straight eight style for my CZ... not sure if they exist tho..
Here us full size with a Heinie Slant Pro straight 8 installed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eerw/CZ%20Custom/75Shadow_0007.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/eerw/media/CZ%20Custom/75Shadow_0007.jpg.html)
-
Nice to know that is an option thanks Stuart! :D
-
A lot of great info here 1
But here's an Iron Sight "System" you missed
The Goshen HexSite
http://www.goshen-hexsite.com/
Here's Adrian's P-02 with its HexSite:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/Range%20trip%20with%20LarryFlew%20and%20Adrian/Hexghostring2_zps14641254.jpg)
:o ;D Sort of an optical sight, but SEE sight pic TWO. 8)
-
:o ;D Sort of an optical sight, but SEE sight pic TWO. 8)
I'd say much like a Ghostring of sorts
Personally, I use the "Sight Image 2" method with my Handguns
-
Den, that I do know, not much else , but that I know. ;)
-
Sight Image 2 with black rear, FO in front is my preference. Good thread in general. Here's a link that may be useful with more discussion regarding iron sights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aFIZn6d1OI#t=11
-
GRB, great discussion. Also reminded me about something that I had thought about and then dropped: Polishing the surfaces between the front and rear FO sight posts. I AM going to do that the next FO rod change. ;)
The "depth" of the rear notch discussion was also interesting. .22 rimfire target pistols often have that deep rear notch too.
-
Great post! Now why isn't it in with the stickies?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Excellent description, and thanks for the pictures too.
-
Bump for reference, due to recent questions about sight use.
-
GRB, great discussion. Also reminded me about something that I had thought about and then dropped: Polishing the surfaces between the front and rear FO sight posts. I AM going to do that the next FO rod change. ;)
The "depth" of the rear notch discussion was also interesting. .22 rimfire target pistols often have that deep rear notch too.
What's the idea behind the polishing?
A couple of years back I picked up a rear sight for one of my 1911s and is has a very deep notch and is also
.140 wide. It has become my favorite rear sight for those. (10-8 Performance Nat'l Match)
Another thing I've been playing with recently is the rear notch being machined at a slight angle (front to rear) so the very front of the rear notch is .020"-.030" lower than the rear. This gives me a very crisp edge and I don't pick up any glare by looking down a "tunnel". I've got about 10 rear sight blanks in my tool box right now, trying different notches and surface treatments out. Every time I have a piece to make on the wire EDM I add in a rear sight blank if there's enough material.
-
milq, your tapered rear notch sounds like it should work well for the glare issues. 8)
The polishing "underneath" the front F.O. "ROD" should increase the light reflected into the FO rod to make it even brighter.
-
Ok...I had read that as you were going to polish the top of the slide and I was going to break out in hives or something trying to figure out why.
-
I would love to get a set of straight eight style for my CZ... not sure if they exist tho..
Here us full size with a Heinie Slant Pro straight 8 installed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eerw/CZ%20Custom/75Shadow_0007.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/eerw/media/CZ%20Custom/75Shadow_0007.jpg.html)
Stuart, what size front sight do you pair with the Heine Slant Pro's in the full size CZ's (is the different than the compact CZ's)? I'm looking for POI just above POA, 3-dot sight picture.
-
Bump due to recent questions
-
Nice post, perhaps it ought to be a sticky ;)