The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: chrisp51 on May 05, 2014, 06:20:07 PM
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I just got the CGW SPGK1 3 spring kit and want to install it in my Tri star C 100. Does anyone know of a video showing how to do this? Thanks.
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It's all pretty straight forward except for the hammer main spring. The one that Cajun sent me was too large of a diameter, which caused binding against the mag brake. I had to relieve a small portion of the mag brake to make it work. Also, I left the firing block spring in the pistol and did not use the one that came with the Cajun kit. Mine was smashed flat when I got it. I really don't think it adds any appreciable weight to the DA. The light weight of the firing pin spring made me a little nervous regarding reliability anyway. Just make sure you have correct fitting punches (length and width) and take your time. If not you may booger up the gun.
Paul
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I just got the CGW SPGK1 3 spring kit and want to install it in my Tri star C 100. Does anyone know of a video showing how to do this? Thanks.
I could make one if I could find the cord for my camera, since I've just done it twice... :-[ I'll try to outline the general process, though, if that helps?
1. Make sure gun is unloaded and chamber is empty!
Hammer Spring - This is in the rearward vertical portion of the frame, behind where the magazine slots in.
1. Remove empty magazine and grips.
2. Remove hammer spring channel cap:
- Make sure hammer is uncocked (doesn't really matter, but will be easier to push against the spring if it's uncompressed)
- Take a look at the lower frame underneath the grips. You should see one narrow/skinny pin up near the slide, and one thicker one down near the base of the frame. We'll be focusing on the lower one.
- Press up against the circular plug in the very bottom of the frame. Right now you are compressing the hammer spring slightly.
- While pressing up, use a punch of some sort to push out the lower most pin (the thicker one mentioned a bit earlier), and then gently release the circular plug. It's under spring tension, but it won't go flying because it's being held in by the flat piece of springy metal that covers the rear of the magazine well.
- Using a punch or something that you can get some decent leverage with, push that cylindrical plug thing back down into the frame until you can remove the magazine brake (the springy piece of flat metal) from the spring. It has a slightly hooked piece on the end and just needs to be pulled away from the spring. Be gentle with this piece as it's easy to bend, and if you do bend it, it can take some adjusting before your magazines will drop freely again.
- Once you have the mag brake freed from the spring release GENTLY the plug. It will go flying this time if you're not careful.
- Now the hammer spring should drop freely out. Put the fancy new one in the same place.
3. Replace the hammer spring!
- Reverse the instructions for removal:
- Put the new spring in the channel, making sure the hammer strut is inside the spring.
- Push the cylindrical cap back into the channel, compressing the spring, you'll most likely need a punch or something of the sort again here, since you need to push the cap far enough up that you can replace the magazine brake hook on the spring. Once you get the hook, make sure the flat metal magazine brake ends are notched into the narrow slots on the bottom of the frame.
- Push the cap in again and slide the pin back in - sometimes I'm able to do this step with just my thumb pushing on the cap. Once everything is lined up properly, it should be easy to slide the pin in, you don't need a hammer/punch or anything.
- Replace the grips.
Now you're done with the frame! Onto the slide...
Firing pin spring and firing pin block spring - these are both in the slide. The larger one is the spring that pushes the firing pin rearward that the hammer must overcome when the trigger is pulled to force the pin into the primer of the cartridge. It is wrapped around the front portion of the firing pin, so to get to it we need to remove the firing pin.
The smaller of the two springs is the firing pin block spring - this spring forces the firing pin block downward, blocking the path of the firing pin from entering the chamber, until the trigger is pulled, when a portion of the sear pushes this up and out of the way. You can see this piece if you take the slide off and look underneath towards the rear - it will be offset from the center and you will be able to push it up with your finger. We must also take this piece out.
1. Your gun is still unloaded, right? Good. Get the magazine out of there, too.
2. Take the slide off of the frame - line the two notches on the rear of the slide and frame up, and then push on the protrusion of the slide stop on the right side of the frame with the base of your magazine until you are able to grab and pull out the slide stop itself. Once the slide stop is gone, the slide should come slide forward all the way off of the frame.
3. Remove barrel and recoil spring assembly. Set aside.
4. Now take a look at the frame. Near the rear, where the serrations are, you will see a large-ish roll pin going through the slide. This roll pin retains the firing pin - you'll need to remove it. Use the appropriate sized roll pin (sorry, I don't know what size, my set isn't labeled :-\) and a soft mallet of some kind if you have it - it shouldn't require too much force to knock out, so if all you have is a steel hammer, just tap lightly. If you think you might slip, put painters tape on the slide around where you're hammering to prevent scratches.
5. Once the pin is out (it doesn't have to come all the way out! Just enough that the firing pin is no longer trapped), the firing pin is free - almost! Remember that firing pin block we talked about? That's all that's holding the firing pin in. Angle the slide so that the rear of the firing pin is facing downward, and press in on the firing pin block. The firing pin should fall free, along with the firing pin spring. Now the firing pin block should be able to fall free as well, along with the spring.
6. Now replace the springs with the shiny new CGW units, and reassemble - put the firing pin block assembly in, then, while holding it up with your finger, slide the firing pin in. Note that the flat spot/notches in the firing pin must be facing upwards - this notch is where the roll pin we tapped out earlier fits to retain the pin.
7. Once the pin is in place, push it forward from the rear, until you can see all the way through the roll pin hole (the rear of the pin should be about flush with the slide in that portion). Now slide a punch or something of the appropriate diameter in that hole from the opposite of whichever side you plan to re-install the roll pin from. This is to hold the firing pin in place while you tap the roll pin back in.
8. Once you've tapped the roll pin back in, you're all set! Put the barrel and recoil spring back in, slide the slide back on the frame, reinstall the slide stop and enjoy your new trigger pull!!
I've typed that up very quickly and from memory, so let me know if you have any questions - I wish I had time to add pictures or make a video, but I'm swamped studying for finals and don't have the time at the moment. I hope this helped at least a little, and good luck!
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It's all pretty straight forward except for the hammer main spring. The one that Cajun sent me was too large of a diameter, which caused binding against the mag brake. I had to relieve a small portion of the mag brake to make it work. Also, I left the firing block spring in the pistol and did not use the one that came with the Cajun kit. Mine was smashed flat when I got it. I really don't think it adds any appreciable weight to the DA. The light weight of the firing pin spring made me a little nervous regarding reliability anyway. Just make sure you have correct fitting punches (length and width) and take your time. If not you may booger up the gun.
Paul
The firing pin spring isn't used to ignite primers, it actually pushes the pin rearward. I think the lighter firing pin spring is likely to balance with the lightened hammer spring, so there is less force to overcome when the hammer encounters the firing pin. It may have been necessary due to the reduced velocity/force/whatever of the hammer with the lighter spring, or it might have just been a precaution, who knows, but if you leave the stock firing pin spring with a lightened hammer spring, I think there would be a higher chance for unreliability than keeping these springs balanced.
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It's all pretty straight forward except for the hammer main spring. The one that Cajun sent me was too large of a diameter, which caused binding against the mag brake. I had to relieve a small portion of the mag brake to make it work. Also, I left the firing block spring in the pistol and did not use the one that came with the Cajun kit. Mine was smashed flat when I got it. I really don't think it adds any appreciable weight to the DA. The light weight of the firing pin spring made me a little nervous regarding reliability anyway. Just make sure you have correct fitting punches (length and width) and take your time. If not you may booger up the gun.
Paul
The firing pin spring isn't used to ignite primers, it actually pushes the pin rearward. I think the lighter firing pin spring is likely to balance with the lightened hammer spring, so there is less force to overcome when the hammer encounters the firing pin. It may have been necessary due to the reduced velocity/force/whatever of the hammer with the lighter spring, or it might have just been a precaution, who knows, but if you leave the stock firing pin spring with a lightened hammer spring, I think there would be a higher chance for unreliability than keeping these springs balanced.
I agree! I was referring to the firing block spring (proper terminology: firing pin block stop spring). I didn't type it correctly on my first post. My bad!
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It's all pretty straight forward except for the hammer main spring. The one that Cajun sent me was too large of a diameter, which caused binding against the mag brake. I had to relieve a small portion of the mag brake to make it work. Also, I left the firing block spring in the pistol and did not use the one that came with the Cajun kit. Mine was smashed flat when I got it. I really don't think it adds any appreciable weight to the DA. The light weight of the firing pin spring made me a little nervous regarding reliability anyway. Just make sure you have correct fitting punches (length and width) and take your time. If not you may booger up the gun.
Paul
The firing pin spring isn't used to ignite primers, it actually pushes the pin rearward. I think the lighter firing pin spring is likely to balance with the lightened hammer spring, so there is less force to overcome when the hammer encounters the firing pin. It may have been necessary due to the reduced velocity/force/whatever of the hammer with the lighter spring, or it might have just been a precaution, who knows, but if you leave the stock firing pin spring with a lightened hammer spring, I think there would be a higher chance for unreliability than keeping these springs balanced.
I agree! I was referring to the firing block spring (proper terminology: firing pin block stop spring).
Whoops! I take it back, then. ;D
Yeah it is definitely a very light spring. I meant to experiment and see if I could actually tell the difference between the stock and CGW firing pin block springs, but it slipped my mind once I started putting things back together.
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I'm positive that you will not notice any real difference on your finger (DA trigger pull). Unfortunately my trigger scale only goes to 8 pounds so I couldn't test the DA pull. I just don't like the idea of that ultra-light spring. If grime or a small piece of debris gets caught in between the slide and the firing pin block stop it could potentially freeze up the stop. I just felt a little better having the stock spring in.
Paul
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By the way, thanks for taking the time to write up the instructions to replace the springs. If it's not a sticky it should be. :)
Paul
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I'm positive that you will not notice any real difference on your finger (DA trigger pull). Unfortunately my trigger scale only goes to 8 pounds so I couldn't test the DA pull. I just don't like the idea of that ultra-light spring. If grime or a small piece of debris gets caught in between the slide and the firing pin block stop it could potentially freeze up the stop. I just felt a little better having the stock spring in.
Paul
I agree on the DA pull - you definitely won't notice it there. The only place you might is the take-up on the SA pull? It would be a minor difference though, and for a gun that will ever get carried or be depended on for defense, I'm definitely on the same page about not wanting an ultra-light spring in there.
By the way, thanks for taking the time to write up the instructions to replace the springs. If it's not a sticky it should be. :)
Paul
No problem! :) I learn so much on this and other forums; I try to give back when I can. If people think it's useful, and/or if there isn't already something that fills that void, I'll gladly add pictures or video to accompany the text after my last exam on Wednesday.
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Thanks for all the help. I got the springs changed and it made a big difference in the trigger pull. I ordered another set of springs for my 75B.
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If it's not a sticky it should be. :)
Done!
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Does the spring kit improve both DA and SA trigger pull, or just the DA?
Many thanks.
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If it's not a sticky it should be. :)
Done!
Oh cool, I got a sticky! I guess that means I'll have to add pictures. ;D Will try to get to it this weekend, terry_mc's thread has some that cover some/most/(all?) of this in the meantime.
Does the spring kit improve both DA and SA trigger pull, or just the DA?
Many thanks.
Both, but the biggest improvement is in the DA by far.
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Does the spring kit improve both DA and SA trigger pull, or just the DA?
Many thanks.
The spring kit reduced both DA and SA pull.
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It's all pretty straight forward except for the hammer main spring. The one that Cajun sent me was too large of a diameter, which caused binding against the mag brake. I had to relieve a small portion of the mag brake to make it work. Also, I left the firing block spring in the pistol and did not use the one that came with the Cajun kit. Mine was smashed flat when I got it. I really don't think it adds any appreciable weight to the DA. The light weight of the firing pin spring made me a little nervous regarding reliability anyway. Just make sure you have correct fitting punches (length and width) and take your time. If not you may booger up the gun.
Paul
The firing pin spring isn't used to ignite primers, it actually pushes the pin rearward. I think the lighter firing pin spring is likely to balance with the lightened hammer spring, so there is less force to overcome when the hammer encounters the firing pin. It may have been necessary due to the reduced velocity/force/whatever of the hammer with the lighter spring, or it might have just been a precaution, who knows, but if you leave the stock firing pin spring with a lightened hammer spring, I think there would be a higher chance for unreliability than keeping these springs balanced.
I agree! I was referring to the firing block spring (proper terminology: firing pin block stop spring).
Whoops! I take it back, then. ;D
Yeah it is definitely a very light spring. I meant to experiment and see if I could actually tell the difference between the stock and CGW firing pin block springs, but it slipped my mind once I started putting things back together.
Here are my thoughts on the firing pin block spring.
I think that the lighter spring really only reduces the trigger stacking in the feel, when used with the CGW hammer/sear.
Once I had completed polishing the trigger action, I found the firing pin block to be more noticeable in single action due less pretravel resistance.
Remember the stock sear has the FPB lifter dovetailed into sear so there is no stacking on pretravel.
So in essence I agree that you are unlikely to notice a difference with a stock sear.
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Does the spring kit improve both DA and SA trigger pull, or just the DA?
Many thanks.
As others have stated above, the spring kit improved the DA pull considerably (it is at least 40-50% lighter as CGW states on their website) and there was a noticeable improvement in the SA pull. With just the spring swap, the SA pull on the Shark-C I was working on dropped to just a hair below 5 pounds. I have not polished up any of the internal parts so it will be a bit better after that. The CGW spring kit is definitely worth the $17 they charge for it. I would expect about the same results in a C100 -- I may have to pick one of those up next week and find out. :)
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Does anyone know if an SRS-1 kit will work in a Jericho 941 frame safety pistol?
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well I broke it! I was installing the kit but the Mag leaf spring just wouldn't go back to its ordinal position and with very little encouragement it snapped at the bend on the bottom nearest the slide. Now the gun still works properly and I cant see what the leaf spring was supposed to have done. I have a whole bunch of similar thickness spring steel so I can fabricate a new one but ... what is it for and yes I know they put it in for a reason but do I need it? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am hoping to take this out to the range on friday.
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well I broke it! I was installing the kit but the Mag leaf spring just wouldn't go back to its ordinal position and with very little encouragement it snapped at the bend on the bottom nearest the slide. Now the gun still works properly and I cant see what the leaf spring was supposed to have done. I have a whole bunch of similar thickness spring steel so I can fabricate a new one but ... what is it for and yes I know they put it in for a reason but do I need it? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am hoping to take this out to the range on friday.
The Magazine Retention Spring, which is what I believe you are talking about, can be removed to allow Magazines to drop more freely during a Reload. I removed them from my old late pre-B Cz75 and pre-Series 88 Tz75's and ran them without issue. Never put them back in, even prior to sale.
For some Pistols it's just a mechanism cover plate. It would be helpful to know just what handgun you are working on.
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Alright I fixed it!!
So I bought this kit
https://cajungunworks.com/product/39250/
For my nifty new T 100
It is not a very complicated install right up until I had to reinstall the mag brake. It is seemingly fabricated of pringles potato chips except it might be a bit more brittle. I DID NOT apply a lot of force and the hook where it goes around the upper pin just broke off. It was way long so I thought I could bend another hook into it but ... it snapped. I found a wonderful video online of a drop free mod for anyone that wants to see it is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93K__CmQCVU
From what I could gather it is designed in such a way so that the mag does NOT drop free. It puts tension in the form of a leaf spring on the back of the mag. You can certainly run the gun without it but then there is a danger I guess of damaging the hammer spring if you are speed loading mags since there is nothing between the mag and the hammer strut. In my other guns including my P 07 the hammer spring and strut are at least somewhat protected. I kind of like that little bit of tension so I designed my brake with just a bit of flex instead of going completely flat but you can certainly pull that crappy mag brake out and use flat steel of the proper thickness.
Years ago a friend gave me a giant spool of thin spring steel that he uses in his industry and I have been happily cutting out my thumb breaks from it for the few holsters with thumb breaks I get asked to do. It is 3 inches wide and the spool will get passed down to grandkids and was used in industrial garage doors. It is very tough, very springy, easy to grind on with a dremel wheel but not easily bent into tight radius's. Its really nice steel and kills anything I can buy as ready made thumb breaks.
I managed with some real effort to get a nice tight bend for the pin at the bottom and I am calling this an upgrade ... especially since its gold! :)
(http://www.boriqualeather.com/stuff/t100%20mag%20brake%201.jpg)
(http://www.boriqualeather.com/stuff/t100%20Mag%20brake.jpg)
Other than that .. double action is AWESOME and trigger pull from half cock is just amazing now compared to what it was. Without overselling it ... from the half cock feels as good as MANY guns I have had shooting in single action. I dont have a scale but it really does almost feel single action from the half cock. $24 shipped priority and some fumbling around in the gun was well worth it.
You need a 1/8 punch for the slide to get the firing pin out and the 3/32 for the pin that holds the break. The pin that holds the hammer spring is near irrelevant since once you unweighted it the pin pushes out readily. The only other thing I would add if you can is a 3/16 in wood dowel to depress the Hammer spring.
Special Plunger tool
(http://www.boriqualeather.com/stuff/plunger%20tool.jpg)
Now here is to fingers crossed for no light primer strikes when I go out friday !!!
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First, thanks for all the posts on this topic - all very helpful and informative.
I’m posting to share my experience and frustration with a slight glitch in this modification, not to disparage the CGW SPGK1 3 Piece Spring Kit which I believe does exactly what it is advertised and intended to do, or to contradict any other posts. The glitch stems from the fact that the CGW blue hammer/main spring is longer, perhaps softer, and slightly larger in diameter than the stock C100 spring. For that reason reassembly of the Flat Spring may present a challenge.
Great instructions can be found for this procedure in this earlier post by p4R4d0x
Re: Cajun Gun Works SPGK1 spring kit installation
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 07:41:23 PM »
Also to expand on another post by DexterGSP who identified the CGW hammer spring size problem
Re: Cajun Gun Works SPGK1 spring kit installation
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 07:31:18 PM »
If you feel uncomfortable performing this modification yourself, consider having CGW or a reputable gunsmith perform this modification for you.
For clarity I used the parts terminology with part numbers found on the C100 schematic & parts list.
To accomplish the Main Spring/26 replacement I created a crude tool to aid pressing the Hammer Spring Plug/27 back into the handle. With a CZ 75 D PCR this tool would not be needed because on a hard surface the lanyard loop plug could be pressed far enough into the handle without any additional help.
I drilled a couple 1/4” holes in a flat piece of wood then cut off two separate lengths of 1/4” dowel rod and jammed them into the holes allowing two different amounts of dowel rod to stick out; one about 3/16” above the surface, and the other 3/8” because I wasn’t sure which length would work best. I did this so I could center the Hammer Spring Plug/27 over either piece of dowel and then press the pistol frame down to suppress the plug to accommodate installation of the Flat Spring/29. This worked but the pistol wanted to slip off the dowel, so I could have tried another method but I’m too old and stubborn so persisted to finally accomplish the job. Why a 1/4” dowel? Because that’s what I had available.
For the Hammer/Main Spring/26 installation, follow the instructions provided by p4R4d0x on the previous page: remove the Main Spring Plug Pin/28 (bottom pin), Flat Spring/29, Hammer Spring Plug/27, and stock Main Spring/26. I also removed the Flat Spring Pin/30 (top pin), which made the loose Flat Spring/29 easier to reinstall later.
I ran into trouble during reassembly, which required several attempts.
Compress the CGW Hammer Spring with the Hammer Spring Plug/27, initially keeping some finger pressure against the front of spring to prevent it from bulging/jackknifing forward into the grip area until the Hammer Spring Plug/29 gets close enough to the Main Spring Slut/23 to prevent this. It’s tricky business to push in and hold the Hammer Spring Plug/27 under pressure at just the right position into its well - deeper than flush - to enable you to finagle the loop of the Flat Spring/29 into the front opening of the Hammer Spring Plug/29, and then also into the slots cut into frame allotted to it. The slightly larger diameter of the CGW Hammer Spring does not make this easier.
Once the Flat Spring/29 is in place, allow the Hammer Spring Plug/29 to creep outward just to its flush position, then with everything lined up hold still and reinsert the Main Spring Plug Pin/28 (bottom pin), and release. Last, reinstall the Flat Spring Pin/30 (top pin).
You’re now finished with this CGW Main Spring installation.
If during removal of the Flat Spring/29 the hook becomes somewhat straightened, bend it back into its former shape/loop with a needle nose pliers. I have seen video whereby the hook was snipped off of the Flat Spring/29 during this process to facilitate installation - I prefer not to do that. I also understand that CZ pistols/clones can operate just fine without a Flat Spring/29 - I prefer to leave it in.
The stock C100 Hammer Spring Plug/27 can be replaced with a CZ 75 Compact Lanyard Loop MS Plug which can make the Hammer/Main Spring installation much easier. The CZ plug fits the C100 perfectly, so if you’re not adverse to a lanyard loop I would recommend it especially if you plan on changing Main Springs again (see photos below).
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/main-spring-plugs/cz-75-loop-mainspring-plug-compact.html = $9
For installation of the firing pin spring and firing block plunger spring, follow p4R4d0x’s notes on the previous page. This should go smooth as silk.
The result of this effort will me a MUCH improved DA pull (I’m guessing a good 40%), and I believe a slightly improved SA pull, although I have no gauge to test either. I’m in high clover now with an inexpensive CGW trigger pull fix thanks in part to excellent CGW customer service, and have since fired about 500 rounds of mixed brands of FMJ and defense rounds without a problem.
Before lanyard loop
(https://i.imgur.com/o9RsW2wl.jpg)
After lanyard loop
(https://i.imgur.com/ZMkaMU9l.jpg)