The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: allright on May 26, 2014, 11:15:50 PM
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Hi all, I recently sent my SP 01 Tactical out to a very reputable gunsmith for some trigger, hammer, sights, and tune up. I'm in CA and since this gun is not on the roster of guns available to us, I had to SSE the purchase. Adding a bit more to the original price from CZ Custom. Before sending the gun to the gunsmith (to be unnamed at this point), I took photos of the gun. The gun had two flaws in the finish. One was a shallow nick, the other more of a very light scratch. Upon receiving the gun back from the smith, I noticed some deep "idiot marks" right above the decocker on the left side. I took pictures and sent them to the smith who replied
"I cannot explain the idiot marks on your pistol. This it not an area
that typically leads to any marks being created at any time during a build
while in our shop. However, if you indicate they are fresh, I will not
refute that. I find marks left by anyone working on a firearm is
unacceptable. I have a -0- tolerance policy for damage to a firearm
finish. So if you elect, I will have your pistol refinished at my
expense. I don't mind since our reputation is the most important thing. I
do remember looking your pistol over and I can't recall those marks. So
let me know how you want to proceed.
I'm curious as to what I should do, and I'm reaching out to the CZ community for your thoughts. Some of mine
1. forget about it and enjoy the new great trigger and sights
2. send the gun back
3. ask for reparation of sending me the money to get some other kind of coating. i.e. duracoat, ceracoat, etc
4. Send another of my CZ's to the smith for the same work, and ask that I don't pay for labor or shipping
What say you?
I've attached some pics.
This is the light scratch already on the gun, a horizontal line right above the grip
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r308/larry2308/SP%2001/IMG_1414_zps29793f29.jpg)
A nick in the paint on right side as well and already on the gun .... this and the mark above were the only flaws
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r308/larry2308/SP%2001/IMG_1415_zpsdd04a6cd.jpg)
And now the damage from the gunsmith seen right above the decocker... or in this photo to the left of the decocker (all other spots were dust)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r308/larry2308/SP%2001/883a623c-eeec-49bc-814e-933ea5271c14_zpsf553f8bd.jpg)
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Why didn't you have cz custom do the work in the first place ? Looks like they pride on the decock lever to get it out.
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I wonder if you can repair the scratches yourself spending a few $ and a couple of hours.
Take it easy.
Scratches (and idiots) are a fact of life.
The question is how idiot is one who uses a lever and hammer this way.
Franco
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Seems to me that he's stepping up and offering to make you whole. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by trying to get something else out of him. He could have just said to pound sand, but he didn't. Either send it back for a free refinish or pay for it yourself to be finished in some coating you prefer. I don't see what else you can reasonably expect him to do.
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Let's use a little logic:
To my way of thinking, there are only five (5) possible explanations for the alleged additional marks:
1) They were actually there when you shipped your pistol;
2) The shipping process from you to the gunsmith caused the marks;
3) The gunsmith caused the marks;
4) The shipping process from the gunsmith to you caused the marks; and/or
5) You caused the marks after receiving the pistol from the shipper.
Based on your representations, the additional marks weren't there when you shipped the pistol.
Based on the gunsmith's representations, the additional marks weren't there when he shipped the pistol.
I am not questioning anyone's honesty or integrity. Even if I had the wisdom of Solomon, I don't have enough facts.
Assuming the gunsmith didn't damage the finish in this area, I would think he would have blamed the shipper, except for one significant reason. He was still responsible for shipping your pistol in the proper packaging. Also, you would be able to tell if the pistol was packaged improperly and could have been damaged in this way when it was returned to you.
Obviously, you know whether or not possibilities #1 or #5 are true or false.
Based on the response you received, I would take full advantage of this gunsmith's counter-offer. However, his only responsibility would be re-finishing the pistol, which would actually be more than adequate reparation (i.e. "making you whole"). Re-finishing will also repair the two marks that you admit were there previously.
Your counter-offer of leveraging this incident for additional services from someone who allegedly damaged your pistol raises some red flags, in my mind. Again, you know whether or not possibilities #1 or #5 were in play.
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Personally, I think there are two logical choices.
1. Send it back and have it refinished
2. Shoot the heck out of it and enjoy the pistol
Only you can decide.
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Personally, I think there are two logical choices.
1. Send it back and have it refinished
2. Shoot the heck out of it and enjoy the pistol
Only you can decide.
+1 :)
-Jason
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Personally, I think there are two logical choices.
1. Send it back and have it refinished
2. Shoot the heck out of it and enjoy the pistol
Only you can decide.
I would take the second option.
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Since the marks that were already there and the new mark is only on the frame I'd just get the lower Cerekoted with titanium color and take pictures of it!
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy117/SMasterson72/F3A59D57-290E-4CE6-A10F-DBC4F8AD8431_zps70ybhb5d.jpg) (http://s783.photobucket.com/user/SMasterson72/media/F3A59D57-290E-4CE6-A10F-DBC4F8AD8431_zps70ybhb5d.jpg.html)
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If you intend to shoot it, either leave it or touch it up yourself and forget about it; this is just the beginning of "character building".
In my opinion, this is a very minor event in life, don't let it eat you up thinking about it.
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Yeah, I'm with 1 here
Take it out and bang away
If you bought it for show, you didn't need to have the Trigger work done
Just my $0.02
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Personally, I think there are two logical choices.
1. Send it back and have it refinished
2. Shoot the heck out of it and enjoy the pistol
Only you can decide.
^^^ Agree.....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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It's an annoying mark, but relatively minor for a 'shooter'.
When I got a small "divot" in my pretty new $6000 paint job on my Lotus, I got some 600 (or finer) grit wet-or-dry. Cut it in tiny circles, and glued it to the eraser on the ends of a couple of pencils.
A little fine work took out the divot, then I filled the spot with paint till it was even. Spot of clear coat, and the angst subsided. Like yours, my idiot mark was not on a place that would make it obvious unless I pointed it out.
Your color looks like semi-gloss black (Testor's model paint).
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1SOW's #2. Life is too short to not shoot what you own! By the way, take the GS off your list and use CZ Custom or CGW for future work.
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Some may cringe, but to me these things are nothing but a powder coated gun in the first place. Cheap and durable. Built to a spec.
A shooter and beater, black paint covers it. And if you don't like black, well?
Now my stainless would be another issue.
Just a character mark, if you use it there will be more, so now that it has lost its virginity you can go ahead and give it a proper beating like it was made for!
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Actually the work was done at CGW. The responsibility is mine 100%, and as I indicated in private a e-mail to the customer, we will pay 100% of the cost to have this fixed to his satisfaction.
I hope everyone realizes we are not perfect and sometimes things just happen. I have no idea how this occurred. I hire a disabled Vietnam veteran for disassembly of many CZ's and he does a fantastic job, very conscientious and careful. He never talks, just works his butt off all day long. But things can and do happen, that's just a fact of life.
So if the OP wants to air his problems on a public forum, that's fine. My offer stands and we are more than willing to make the customer happy. All he has to do is let us know.
I respectfully request everyone read our response the OP made public. I don't what else I could have said.
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I ordered a rebuilt pistol from a custom shop. It arrived with a gouge in the finish. I emailed them. They replied with a shipping label. I sent it in. They sent it back all fixed up within a week. No different than what CGW has offered to do to make the customer happy.
I should add, in the whole scheme of things the words of the sage, Hickok45, "Life is good". :)
End of story.
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It is not a garage queen, it ment to be use, like 1SOW said only you can decide.
Now with CGW, he will make it right with you. There are countless including myself that have dealt with them and just let them know prior to airing it out, if you just want opinion just wait until thy fix the issue.
Now go and shoot the heck out of it:)
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cz gun owners are very fortunate to have people like this to support our hobby. props to cajun gun works
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I posted on this forum, because I'm not/wasn't sure of how to deal with the choices at hand. Yes, it was CGW, and David has a GREAT reputation, and I do not feel this should be a reflection on the work CGW does. I'm not at all upset with them. Not now, not before. David is a true "stand-up" guy, and this thread was meant to aid me in my decision and not meant to demean CGW/David. I would not have "outed" the gunsmith, however since David has already spoken up, they have been named. I agree with David, please do read his response I posted in the opening of this thread. If I had thought CGW was a bad gun smith, why would I have written in the opening of the thread that I was considering send another gun to them? Mistakes do happen.
I recommend CGW to all those CZ/Canik owners that want to turn their everyday guns into something special. By the way, one of the greatest things David did, besides his magical trigger transformation, was his choice of sights. Wow, what a difference they make. Small FO on the front, and stepped rear.
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1SOW's #2. Life is too short to not shoot what you own! By the way, take the GS off your list and use CZ Custom or CGW for future work.
Now that the GS has been identified, I strongly stand by the last sentence above with the exception of "take the GS off your list." David spends countless hours of providing information and research to help improve CZs. He's one of the people who contributes a large volume of quality information to this forum along with skillful, innovative improvements to CZ pistols. Sorry this happened to your pistol. Sometimes it's better to keep things private, as the answer to your question in this case can only be determined by one person. Of course, we'll gladly express opinions when it's an anonymous GS, but now I feel like I'm intruding on something better kept between two people. I'll gracefully bow out of this thread.
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David, you are a stand-up guy, period.
As you said, stuff happens sometimes but it is a pleasure doing business with a craftsman that stands behind his work 100% and is dedicated to creating happy customers.
As customer, I couldn't be happier. I won't hesitate to send all my future CZ work your way.
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I had nothing but GOOD RESULTS with David and CGW........I admire him even more now since he is providing job to a Disable Veteran ..... David like you told me once : YOU ARE DA MAN !!!!!!!
-Mario from Puerto Rico
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Something told me this was going to happen! Hey David, is this the first time this week you got called an idiot?
I need to start calling you early Monday mornings from now on just to make you feel better! O0
I usually don't make it till noon before someone calls me worse than that!