The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => CZ Gunsmithing => Topic started by: schmeky on August 22, 2014, 05:12:13 PM
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Been trying to get this done for some time, so sorry for the delay. We are attempting to show everyone how to achieve a spectacular P-07/09 at home with step-by-step pictures. We have found a few areas that need to be addressed to correct some factory shortcomings common in virtually all service pistols.
Here are the main parts we are going to reuse and smooth. Notice the disco, FP block lever, and other parts are missing. We won't show these since the pistols performance is somewhat compromised by trying to make these work to get max results.
(https://i.imgur.com/mHBqzJs.jpg)
These are the parts we are not going to reuse:
(https://i.imgur.com/UkK3c79.jpg)
These are the parts we are going to replace the OEM parts with:
(https://i.imgur.com/v6LLc8G.jpg)
We are asked often how we polish the internals. It's really quite simple. We take 1/8" steel rods (an old 1/8" drill bit installed upside down works well) installed in a dremel. We then tear off 3/4" wide X 4" long strips of 400 wet/dry and 2000 wet/dry. We use a small piece of masking tape to stick one end of the 400 or 2000 to the steel rod and wrap it. This makes the perfect sanding "drum"; as the end piece gets worn, just tear it off and you have a new cutting edge. We run the dremel at the slowest speed:
(https://i.imgur.com/3iDKYl2.jpg)
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First thing to address before the parts smoothing is how to fix the stacking DA. We have observed many P series and they all suffer from the same problem. This pic is of the frame laying on the RH side. The first pic is of the trigger bar spring. It's always badly over tensioned. Notice where the end of the spring is presently; causes the DA to stack badly.
(https://i.imgur.com/kDlgVhH.jpg)
Now notice where the trigger bar support spring is after we have reduced the tension. The difference is quite significant and makes the DA much better. Just changing to CGW springs and making this simple mod can make your P series feel like a different pistol.
(https://i.imgur.com/rcaE759.jpg)
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Here's a brand new trigger bar. Look at the rear and you can already see a high spot visible by the wear on the finish. When parts are stamped out of sheet metal (as is the P series trigger bar), the stamping die causes the steel to form sharp edges on the outside of the trigger bar. In essence, the bar is not flat, it is more concave or bowl shaped. We want the trigger bar flat and smooth.
(https://i.imgur.com/eL1iHfi.jpg)
So you can see just how "unflat" the trigger bar is, here is a pic of stoning the bar lightly. You can see the where the edges are higher creating drag and a rough DA.
(https://i.imgur.com/G95VGNW.jpg)
Here's a nice flat, properly prepped trigger bar.
(https://i.imgur.com/i5zpT4q.jpg)
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We plan to supplement this thread in the next week or so with upgraded pics and descriptions. We have already taken the pics, just need some time to organize and improve the flow of the upgrades.
From the volume of calls and e-mails we have received, we realized this thread has become more popular than we had ever anticipated.
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I know I've read some info about the DA roller and timing issues but can't find anything now. Can you tell us a little bit about it and how your roller-bearing fixes it? Thanks
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Here is a pre-polished pic of the rear of the trigger bar. This is the area that pushes against the disco "wing". Notice how rough and coarse this area is. Unfortunately they are all like this, which results in a gritty, jerky DA. Clean this up with 400 grit, then switch to 2000 and mirror polish it.
(https://i.imgur.com/xZdslOB.jpg)
We'll retake this photo, but this shows how we polish this area:
(https://i.imgur.com/OhmWSSD.jpg)
Notice how the trigger pivot pin is only making bearing contact in a limited area:
(https://i.imgur.com/VwpjLvj.jpg)
This is how it should look when done using a felt wheel and very fine jewelers rouge:
(https://i.imgur.com/rHfDHw3.jpg)
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Moving through the action, here is the trigger pivot pin. We chuck it up in a dremel and use 2000 grit to polish it to a mirror shine. Be careful not to break the sharp edges in the center where the trigger return spring runs.
(https://i.imgur.com/qh6kXZ3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZjGE92d.jpg)
Next is the sear pin. We only use the 2000 grit on this one as well. Notice we left the factory machining marks. Just polish, no metal removal here:
(https://i.imgur.com/e9k5Bnf.jpg)
Finally the hammer pivot pin, same thing here, 2000 grit only and we used a hand drill for this one because of the diameter:
(https://i.imgur.com/k8djoKJ.jpg)
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On the left is the OEM DA roller. Notice how rough the top "flat" bearing surface is, which is where the roller runs against the steel hammer well insert. Every OEM DA roller we have seen is like this and you can see how the trigger bar was "skipping" on the roller. The roller should actually turn or roll with each DA pull. What you can't see is the bore of the OEM roller, some are extremely crude and some are good. The OEM roller simply can't be worked over to make it like it should be. Notice the CGW roller is polished and the "flat" bearing surface is actually flat and extremely smooth. What you can't see is the bore of the CGW roller, which is as good as the outside, i.e. smooth and fluid.
(https://i.imgur.com/1dsaNYk.jpg)
Sizing the correct roller is very important. Roller widths from the factory vary from .212" OD to .230" OD. This is a huge discrepancy, but is done for a reason. Different OD rollers can be used to quickly and effectively change the DA timing. We offer 2 different OD's, a .220" OD (used 85-90% of the time) and a .230" OD. If your OEM roller is .212" - .222", use our 97058-220 roller. If the OEM roller is .224" or larger, use our 97058-230.
Here is a quick lesson on how an increase in the roller affects the trigger bar timing. If you had an OEM .224" roller, and you installed the CGW .230" roller, this would "seem" to be an increase of .006". In reality, you only factor in 1/2 of the new OD, so in this case, you only increased the actual working area of the roller .003", since .006" in total additional OD only adds .003" to each side of the roller.
This is a good example of how just a few thousands can be the difference between a flawless running CZ or one with lock work timing issues.
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When we get a call or e-mail from someone saying their P-07/09 is the worst they have ever seen, this is one of the reasons why. the factory began using a glue to retain the decocker cam on the shaft (since the early models had issues with the cam moving on the shaft). Clean this up as needed.
(https://i.imgur.com/p81p4eL.jpg)
Here is how we do it:
(https://i.imgur.com/RmPkfav.jpg)
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Here is the FP block plunger in the slide. Notice how just a small area is actually making contact with the plunger bore. This is common and can make the SA pre-travel gritty and scratchy. Polish the plunger with the 2000 only and really concentrate on the flat area that makes contact with the lifter. Also check the bore in the slide and if needed, do a quick clean up using the 2000 grit.
(https://i.imgur.com/GvZwR0O.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/u07uf5b.jpg)
We are asked why our reduced power plunger spring is larger in OD when compared to the "skinny" OEM plunger spring. The OEM spring, when compressed, will twist, distort, and rub the plungers bore. You can feel this on some CZ's.
The CGW spring is the same OD as the plungers bore, so it compresses straight up and down, with no twisting or side to side deflection. Once the plunger is polished and the CGW spring installed, the feel of the plunger literally goes away.
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What a useful thread! I managed to take apart my p07 and polish everything mentioned. BUT! most importantly I managed to get it all back together and it still works.
I am sure you guys have seen it but this is a really helpful video if you haven't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChRsfL_xyHs&list=PLYx57YZU07HYWxWbydIsLuyq_TMIDH4zi&index=7
I was really dismayed to find that the flat part of the hammer where the sear sits hamer down looked like it had been cut with a log cutters circular blade! Man o man it is just brutal the machine marks in it. Oh well you dont really rub on it when pulling the trigger but still .. nasty.
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These videos definitely helped me a lot. Between the pics that Schmeky posted and JoeMustang's videos, I'm now a wannabe gunsmith.
Here is another video on the trigger R&R:
https://youtu.be/oS7LzkUQlt8
He also did one on the slide disassembly for the P-09 in case you're replacing the firing pin.
https://youtu.be/9VhXSYKxcaA.
I made a stand similar to what he has and it definitely helps. Also, I found that using a straightened paper clip to R&R the ejector spring and the sear spring makes it easier if you don't have a dental pick.
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Somewhere in the range of 30k views of those videos so far. Some of you guys are watching 'em more than once! :) :)
To be honest, I had to go watch my own videos before installing the CGW hammer in the P-07 I bought this year. It helped...but I'm old.
Joe aka JoeMustang99
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It helped...but I'm old
You crack me up Joe!!!
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The P09/07's were designed to be completely taken down with just a punch (I use a 3/32 one), so that will get you 95% of the way there. The pin that holds the hammer strut in the hammer is staked though, so it takes a pretty decent hit to break it free. I used the starter punch that CGW sells and it worked great.
The other thing you need is a surface on which to rest the parts that will allow a pin to drop into it when you're tapping them through. In a pinch you can just use a role of tape and place the part so the pin is over the hole in the middle and hammer it through. What I've found works really well is a hockey puck with a hole drilled through. You can get a 3 pack for $10 or so on Amazon and since they're hard rubber, you can also sculpt them out a little bit to support irregularly shaped parts if you need to.
I'll also add that when you're tapping out the roll pin in the slide to swap out the firing pin, don't tap it all the way out. You only need to move it enough to allow the firing pin to come out and if you leave it still stuck in the slide, it's much easier to tap it back in (as opposed to trying to start a new pin in the hole).
It would be good to have some sand paper on hand too so you can polish parts if you want to while you're in there (start at 400 or 600 grit to smooth, then work up to 2000 grit to polish).
Don't be intimidated, they're great guns to work on. As Schmecky once told me "if the 75 series guns were as easy to work on as the P09/07, we wouldn't have a shop."
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I just finished the Pro-package install myself. I texted CGW only about the Hammer pin, I was wondering if I was going to maul anything with the amount of force required to seat that pin. After being told that "It's a snug fit", I just smacked it in. Actually, the pin went completely in, rather easily, from one side. The other side went in easily until you got to the center, then it met quite a bit of resistance.
I would say that if you have some mechanical aptitude, that you shouldn't be intimidated with doing this job. The roll pin punch that was the best fit was a 3mm, and I used that the most.
Otherwise, between the various You Tube videos, it shouldn't be a problem. But it does take some time. So be patient.
Just to have them available:
CZ P-09 Walkthrough disassembly and reassembly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGMnbeCv4gA
P-09 CGW Hammer Kit Install
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChRsfL_xyHs
P-09 Decocker Spring Installation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT0gMIQW-H8
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On one of Schmecky's polishing threads, he shows in detail the easiest way to polish hard to reach places using a Dremel tool.
There is a 1/8" Dremel "stem/shaft"for sanding and polishing that has a tiny screw in the end to hold the tools it uses.
He uses THAT shaft with the screw removed, and a thin strip of sandpaper wrapped over the end and down the sides uses a small O-ring used as a rubber band over the strip of paper to hold it in place. He also shows all the locations to polish.
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Ok - this thread has been cleaned up!
The discussion thread can be found here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=95488.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=95488.0)