The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Tactics and Competition => Topic started by: kstedp07 on September 04, 2014, 12:13:12 PM
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i have been shooting a Springfield XDM 5.25 9mm in production uspsa for 2 years. however, i have a fever, and the only prescription, is CZ! i have a P-07, but was thinking SP-01. a friend has a CZ75 BD he's selling for a great price. Opinions? now don't be shy.
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If price weren't a concern I'd probably go with an SP-01 Tactical but if you can get a good deal on that 75BD then that sounds like a better choice... can't go wrong either way :)
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SP01 shadow custom :)
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Depends what a good price is. If it is a good price buy it and shoot it. You can always get a SP-01 later.
RCG
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Both benefit a lot from some custom action parts, springs and polishing for Production class pistols. I would add that in to the cost/work for your choices availble.
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Objectively the heavier slide and frame of the SP-01 makes it a winner.
Subjectively I like the classic looks of the 75BD and I have a huge mental block abut decocking by manually letting the hammer down.
I had the same decision to make as you (IDPA SSP/USPSA Production) and went with the 75BD.
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The SP-01 Shadow is the most popular pistol used in IPSC Production world wide. From that you should be able to conclude the shooters in that sport might be on to something. USPSA allows for more mods than IPSC does so you might have someone do some work one the trigger. For most of us mortals I doubt the work does much to improve our performance but lots of folks do it anyway. Personall;y when the buzzer goes off I cannot recall ever feeling any grittiness in a trigger while shooting. The SP-01 Shadow comes with a pretty nice trigger. Replace the mainspring with a 13# Wolf spring and the guns are pretty nice out of the box.
Take Care
Bob
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Objectively the heavier slide and frame of the SP-01 makes it a winner.
Subjectively I like the classic looks of the 75BD and I have a huge mental block abut decocking by manually letting the hammer down.
I had the same decision to make as you (IDPA SSP/USPSA Production) and went with the 75BD.
SP-01 tactical takes care of that for people afflicted with your mental block. Very nicely I might add,
CG
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I have been shooting a regular 75B for many years, and I have a buddy that has as well. We were in before it was "cool" :D One of these days I want to upgrade to the SP-01, but I need to wear the 75B out first. Cajun Gun Works has parts so you can work on the BD version. There just is not as much support out there for that particular gun.
BTW, my 15yo has run an XDm 5.25 9mm for a couple of years now and really likes it. His is a bit more tricked out, so he shoots in Limited Minor with it. It works really good for 3Gun.
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Montana, Mine is the same. Good luck wearing OUT a 75b . How old are you? ;)
Mine has been down due to owner stupidity for quite some time. I got it back running again recently. The trigger on the B is on a par with my 75 Shadow Custom that has all the goodies. The DA is amazing. It's ready for another 60K rds.
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Age and Old are relative ;D I have about 16 years or so on the 75B, and right at 58,000 rounds. It was my 2 boys competition guns before they go their own (13 and 15 now), so it was out of my hands for a bit.
I am still running the stock hammer/sear, although I did cut it years ago. 13# main and the extended firing pin. Then this weekend I tried my buddies 75 that has the CZ Race hammer and sear... gads what have I been missing. Exponential difference. So, that is next on the list. I never thought the 75B would get that close to the Shadow, but I am wrong. I am not even good enough to need that.. yet. I am out there having fun in USPSA and 3Gun. So how much longer till I wear it out??
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"Only the Shadow Knows", but using production loads, no steel cases or bullets with steel and various coatings, it'll be until it loses accuracy due to bbl rifling wear. Using Production class loads, it won't wear very fast at all. Parts WILL break, but most are easily replaceable.
P.S. The CGW Race hammer isn't legal in USPSA/IDPA, but the CZC Competition hammer is legal. It also gives those great results with improved hammer hooks. The hammer is the biggy. The SR disconnector is also another great improvement.
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If you're looking at a full size all metal gun, I'd recommend the SP-01 over the regular CZ 75. In addition, CGW's parts make it very easy (and affordable) to turn an SP-01 into a very nice package that is virtually the same as a shadow in terms of shootability but without the wait time and associated price tag.
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My buddy does not shoot USPSA, only 3Gun, and it is legal there. I also shoot lead reloads about 99.99% of the time, so the barrel will wear out from my cleaning more than likely. ;D
I have been trying to find a tutorial on how the sear needs to be fit (getting a new one) when I buy the hammer. I did not think about getting the shorter disconnector either. I know I can just get the CGW adjustable one, but where is the fun in that :D After seeing some of the posts here, I may go a bit lighter on the hammer spring too, but that would mean a switch in primers.
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i have been shooting a Springfield XDM 5.25 9mm in production uspsa for 2 years. however, i have a fever, and the only prescription, is CZ! i have a P-07, but was thinking SP-01. a friend has a CZ75 BD he's selling for a great price. Opinions? now don't be shy.
I have just started looking at CZ I own a fair amount of guns but no CZ and wanted to add one just to have one. Plus starting shooting USPSA Production and wanted to get one that would work for that also.
Like the SP 01 but would love to have the Shadow but a lot of money. Just started searching this site to get some information and ideas on which way to go.
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i have been shooting a Springfield XDM 5.25 9mm in production uspsa for 2 years. however, i have a fever, and the only prescription, is CZ! i have a P-07, but was thinking SP-01. a friend has a CZ75 BD he's selling for a great price. Opinions? now don't be shy.
I have just started looking at CZ I own a fair amount of guns but no CZ and wanted to add one just to have one. Plus starting shooting USPSA Production and wanted to get one that would work for that also.
Like the SP 01 but would love to have the Shadow but a lot of money. Just started searching this site to get some information and ideas on which way to go.
I'm new here but in the same boat. Spent some time today test driving a couple different SP-01 Shadow models from CZ Custom and found what I liked. I wouldn't mind test-driving a CZ-75 Shadow (non-rail) to see what difference the short dust cover makes on recoil/transitions, but the FLDC of the SP-01 didn't cause me any difficulties today.
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i have been shooting a Springfield XDM 5.25 9mm in production uspsa for 2 years. however, i have a fever, and the only prescription, is CZ! i have a P-07, but was thinking SP-01. a friend has a CZ75 BD he's selling for a great price. Opinions? now don't be shy.
I have just started looking at CZ I own a fair amount of guns but no CZ and wanted to add one just to have one. Plus starting shooting USPSA Production and wanted to get one that would work for that also.
Like the SP 01 but would love to have the Shadow but a lot of money. Just started searching this site to get some information and ideas on which way to go.
I'm new here but in the same boat. Spent some time today test driving a couple different SP-01 Shadow models from CZ Custom and found what I liked. I wouldn't mind test-driving a CZ-75 Shadow (non-rail) to see what difference the short dust cover makes on recoil/transitions, but the FLDC of the SP-01 didn't cause me any difficulties today.
I just got a 75 Shadowline. Gun, as you know comes with the standard dust cover. I can't tell the difference between it and my old Shadow I had. Some say they can but I can\t. The gun is lighter by virtue of the shorter dust cover which I prefer for transitions. I will use the gun mostly in IDPA when I am not playing with my GP-100. I do like the aluminum thin grips that come with the gun. With a 13# trigger spring the DA pull should be excellent.
If I was going to only use a gun for IPSC/USPSA I would buy the Shadow, change the springs and go play. I don't see where it makes much difference to play with the trigger on the Shadow. I doubt most shoot any better, before or after a trigger job. I do concede though when you are slowly dry firing the gun at home the trigger will feel smoother. Frankly, when the buzzer goes off I never feel any grittiness in the trigger when shooting. It may make a difference for those at the very top of the food chain but for most, I am not sure the money would not be better spent buying ammo. If Vogel and others can win with stock guns there is no reason, other than lack of talent, why any of us can't win with the same guns.
Take Care
Bob
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i have been shooting a Springfield XDM 5.25 9mm in production uspsa for 2 years. however, i have a fever, and the only prescription, is CZ! i have a P-07, but was thinking SP-01. a friend has a CZ75 BD he's selling for a great price. Opinions? now don't be shy.
I have just started looking at CZ I own a fair amount of guns but no CZ and wanted to add one just to have one. Plus starting shooting USPSA Production and wanted to get one that would work for that also.
Like the SP 01 but would love to have the Shadow but a lot of money. Just started searching this site to get some information and ideas on which way to go.
I'm new here but in the same boat. Spent some time today test driving a couple different SP-01 Shadow models from CZ Custom and found what I liked. I wouldn't mind test-driving a CZ-75 Shadow (non-rail) to see what difference the short dust cover makes on recoil/transitions, but the FLDC of the SP-01 didn't cause me any difficulties today.
I just got a 75 Shadowline. Gun, as you know comes with the standard dust cover. I can't tell the difference between it and my old Shadow I had. Some say they can but I can\t. The gun is lighter by virtue of the shorter dust cover which I prefer for transitions. I will use the gun mostly in IDPA when I am not playing with my GP-100. I do like the aluminum thin grips that come with the gun. With a 13# trigger spring the DA pull should be excellent.
If I was going to only use a gun for IPSC/USPSA I would buy the Shadow, change the springs and go play. I don't see where it makes much difference to play with the trigger on the Shadow. I doubt most shoot any better, before or after a trigger job. I do concede though when you are slowly dry firing the gun at home the trigger will feel smoother. Frankly, when the buzzer goes off I never feel any grittiness in the trigger when shooting. It may make a difference for those at the very top of the food chain but for most, I am not sure the money would not be better spent buying ammo. If Vogel and others can win with stock guns there is no reason, other than lack of talent, why any of us can't win with the same guns.
Take Care
Bob
IMO lightening up the trigger and shortening the reset helps more when going fast. I think the faster and shorter reset results in less finger movement and less slapping of the trigger on the follow-up shots. 1911/2011 triggers are a good example of this where the short reset keeps you from jerking the trigger when shooting .15 to .20 sec splits. I typically set my triggers for 2.5 to 2.75 lbs on my competition guns and my Bill Drill times/hits are quite a bit better than when I run the same drill with my carry guns that are in the neighborhood of 3.5 to 4 lbs. Easily half second or more difference, and usually with better hits.
I can run a stock Glock trigger pretty accurately when I take the time to prep the trigger and take up all the slack. But when trying to haul ass that fine trigger control is one of the first thing that goes out the window. But drop in a Zev or Vanek trigger that lightens and smooths up the pull as well as shortens the reset, and the results are pretty plain to behold. I know it helps me drive the gun more aggressively and its one less thing to focus on while on the clock.
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I have read with some interest the use of the Pre B Disconnector to shorten the reset. How much does it shorten. My Shadowline gun is noticeably shorter than my 85 Combat and I am working in my double taps now. I am at best .19 - .20 of a second which is not great but it is what it is. Anything to get the gun to run just a tad faster should eventually show up in my times.
Take Care
Bob
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How much does it shorten.
IMO, about half.
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How much does it shorten.
IMO, about half.
This was my experience as well, about half. A great upgrade for the money!
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If Vogel and others can win with stock guns there is no reason, other than lack of talent, why any of us can't win with the same guns.
I seriously doubt Vogel and other top shooters use unmodified, stock pistols.
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If Vogel and others can win with stock guns there is no reason, other than lack of talent, why any of us can't win with the same guns.
I seriously doubt Vogel and other top shooters use unmodified, stock pistols.
Vogel used a stock G 17 to win the World IPSC Production title a few years back in Greece. He wrote the gun only had new sights which are allowed. I suspect he knew his gun would be examined very closely by Euro IPSC officials. IPSC does not allow the mods USPSA does and has a 5lb minimum first pull on the trigger. This means Vogel was stuck with a 5lb trigger vs the DA SA guns where SA triggers run around 2lbs.
His win looked good on the Europeans IMHO.
Take Care
Bob
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Vogel shot USPSA Nationals in Limited division this year with a Glock. I know because I RO'd him when he came thru the stage I was working in St. George.
But BV's Glock was far from stock. It had a piccatinney rail mounted to the right side of the slide and a flashlight underneath. I'm not sure what purpose the pic rail served, but I'm guessing the flashlight was for weight to help the gun shoot flatter. From what I understand, the flashlight was inert and within the USPSA rules for Limited Division, circa the 2014 rulebook.
There's no doubt in my mind Vogel is a great shooter, and watching him in action with the Super Squad was a treat. Was the extra weight on the gun needed? Don't know, didn't ask him, but he was within 1.1% of beating the National Ltd champion who incidentally was shooting a 2011. But the point is, he wasn't shooting a stock Glock at the 2014 Nats.
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No maybe not but IPSC Production is a while different kettle of fish. No special after market parts, even the springs have to be stock. You can change the sights and grips and you can polish internals but are not allowed to remove metal - not sure how that is accomplished, and must have a minimum 5lb trigger pull. He did it in Greece with a Glock 17. The 34/35 are not allowed in IPSC Production.
Take Care
Bob
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From a cost standpoint, you can get a fixed site Shadow for about $1200. It needs no modifications from there to get you to IDPA or USPSA Master. On the other hand, even if you hand load, an active shooter will spend that on ammo every year. Get the right gun and shoot the snot out of it.
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From a cost standpoint, you can get a fixed site Shadow for about $1200. It needs no modifications from there to get you to IDPA or USPSA Master. On the other hand, even if you hand load, an active shooter will spend that on ammo every year. Get the right gun and shoot the snot out of it.
Are the regular CZ UB Shadows not available in the US? They go for around $850Cdn up here. The 75 Shadowline and a "Canadian" Shadow go for around $1,100Cdn. The latter two have trigger work done at the factory and come with different grips and levers.
Take Care
Bob
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Vogel shot USPSA Nationals in Limited division this year with a Glock. I know because I RO'd him when he came thru the stage I was working in St. George.
But BV's Glock was far from stock. It had a piccatinney rail mounted to the right side of the slide and a flashlight underneath. I'm not sure what purpose the pic rail served, but I'm guessing the flashlight was for weight to help the gun shoot flatter. From what I understand, the flashlight was inert and within the USPSA rules for Limited Division, circa the 2014 rulebook.
There's no doubt in my mind Vogel is a great shooter, and watching him in action with the Super Squad was a treat. Was the extra weight on the gun needed? Don't know, didn't ask him, but he was within 1.1% of beating the National Ltd champion who incidentally was shooting a 2011. But the point is, he wasn't shooting a stock Glock at the 2014 Nats.
BV's gun
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/04/0be1e20f41b2d688295997a876f25cca.jpg)
And he is an awesome shooter. The times he's came across the state to shoot/train at a friends range I've been busy. Maybe next time he's in town.
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On the other hand, even if you hand load, an active shooter will spend that on ammo every year.
^Very true. Buying the gun is just a one time cost. Keeping it fed with ammo... that's the on-going cost. Figure roughly $120/K is my reloading cost, and I shoot about 12-15K per year. That's easily the price of a new CZC gun going down the barrel each year.
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got my sp01 for 680 + dros
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Congrats on the new gun. I'm waiting on one myself. Give us a range report when you get out and shoot.
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Darn it this thread is giving me grief! I believe I need a new competition gun well before I wear out the current one. I could use it as a backup.. that is the ticket. Still thinking about an SP-01, but looking at the P-09 as well. So hard to make up my mind since you never see the things up here as it is. I do have a pre 2014 P-07, and while I shoot it well (used it for some 3Gun night matches), I find the grip a bit narrow. I run the stock rubber grips on my 75B for a nice fit. Looking at the P-09, it would appear that the frame is just as narrow, but the bigger backstrap might help with that. The plus for the SP-01 is I already have quite a few magazines that I would not need to buy..
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Darn it this thread is giving me grief! I believe I need a new competition gun well before I wear out the current one. I could use it as a backup.. that is the ticket. Still thinking about an SP-01, but looking at the P-09 as well. So hard to make up my mind since you never see the things up here as it is. I do have a pre 2014 P-07, and while I shoot it well (used it for some 3Gun night matches), I find the grip a bit narrow. I run the stock rubber grips on my 75B for a nice fit. Looking at the P-09, it would appear that the frame is just as narrow, but the bigger backstrap might help with that. The plus for the SP-01 is I already have quite a few magazines that I would not need to buy..
Just buy a Accu Shadow. LOL
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/11/1993b5077895f2c5e1e8c7bd73a91281.jpg)