The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => VZ-58 semi auto rifle => Topic started by: auctoris on February 07, 2015, 12:53:09 AM
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I have a VZ2008 on the way from PSA, and I know I want to change the furniture on it. I've looked at a lot of options from Czechpoint (https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/vz-58-parts-and-accessories?l=1), Zahal (http://www.zahal.org/groups/shop-sa-vz-58-cz-858), and FAB Defense (http://www.fab-defense.com/). But I'm not sure which items will work with the VZ2008. I want to get black polymer upper/lower handguards with rails, a black polymer pistol grip, and a black polymer collapsible buttstock--not folding, just collapsible. What products have you found that work well on your VZ2008?
I found reviews saying these upper/lower handguards with rails (http://amzn.com/B002E6N7W6) as well as this pistol grip (http://amzn.com/B008WMLY5S) will work on the VZ2008. But I haven't found any collapsible buttstocks specifically indicating they work with the VZ2008. Is anyone else using a collapsible buttstock on their VZ2008? If so, what model? I saw some that are quite expensive. My budget only allows $150 or less for the buttstock.
Also, I'm not a very mechanical person. I can handle basic installations, but if it requires power tools or mechanical finesse, I'm not the guy. :)
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm kind of lost with all of the options.
Thanks
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If it will fit the 58 it will fit the 2008 for the most part. They're all clones of the same rifle.
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Thanks. But I've read that some accessories for the 58 won't fit the 2008--like muzzle brakes. I've also read the descriptions on some handguards and buttstocks saying they won't fit properly on the 2008. That's why I'm trying to find out what actually works on the 2008. I don't want to get something then have to cut, file, dremel, sand, etc. to make it fit correctly.
I know there are a lot of people who really enjoy tinkering with their firearms. I'm not one of those people. I enjoy shooting my guns, but I do not enjoy tinkering with them. So I want accessories that are super-easy to install and require as little mechanical proficiency as possible. :) I know whatever accessories I get may require some adjustment. I just want to keep it to a minimum.
Thanks
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I've never seen a single report about problems with muzzle brakes for the 2008 and furniture issue with the 2008 are few and far between. The Mako hand guards from Zahal, Bonesteel, NAE/Troy and various others all have countless 2008 owners that use these accessories.
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Lower aluminum handguards require removing a little of the front lip w/ file. About 1/8" usually for VZ2008s. Otherwise, lube the back, get a rubber hammer, then put it in the front handguard retainer and use the rubber hammer to tap the back (from the back tapping forward towards front handguard retainer) and home. The first 1/3rd is the hardest. After that you're home free and just tap from the bottom. You don't have to remove the 1/8" but then you'll pretty much have to use a hammer to install/remove forever. To remove, you take off the top handguard and tap the back top side edge of the lower...
Stocks, VZ2008s don't seem to have consistent hole locations, varying 1/8" or so in any direction. So it may require some fitting... A file and/or a dremel is all it takes.
What are you looking for in the way of "collapsible" stocks. Folding or just an AR tube?
Excepting a some of the first generation VZ2008s from 2008, all muzzles are 14x1 RH threaded, not LH so muzzle devices aren't an issue. If it's clockwise to tighten you have RH threading...
Ultimately don't believe everything you read on the internet. ;D
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Get the full commie solid BB stock on ebay. Keep it simple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZycP7FBRd6I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZycP7FBRd6I)
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@vblue42,
Here are a couple of examples of Vz. 58 muzzle brakes that won't work on the VZ2008. One is from Zahal. The other is from Czechpoint.
The Zahal muzzle brake for the Vz 58 says, "Will not fit centuryarms VZ2008." http://www.zahal.org/products/sa-vz-58-muzzle-brake?path_parent=278947
The Czechpoint muzzle brake for the Vz 58 says, "Attention century vz2008 owners: This brake will fit original czech barrels without issue, but many century vz2008 owners have experienced issues with screwing this brake onto their barrel threads." https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/vz-58-muzzle-brake?l=1
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Thanks for all the info! That helps.
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Somewhat in the same boat as I am building out a few myself, albeit not all CAI. Though I love tinkering as much as shooting. ;D
There are some real good good reviews on the Bonesteel rails in this forum, but I am unaware of the fit up issues. I'm really tempted to try a set. B&T offered me a replacement rail set and newly formed B&T US is waiting on their import license for rails, so they might just substitute something else of my liking. However that's a head scratcher for me, due to the retail price difference -- B&T rails ~400 vs. Bonesteel ~170.
I have 3 or 4 Fab defense stocks on Kalish type firearms and IMO they are very good quality and appear to hold up well. Polymer joints are sturdy and tight. Considering a FAB folder for a VZ now, but looking at ACE modular solutions too -- but beware of fit up on VZ2008 for ACE modular stuff - its not the ACE, its what goes in between..
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@Auctoris:
Both of those brakes are the same and hundreds of 2008 users including myself are using them without issue. In fact, it's the most popular brake to replace the slant brake on the 2008. As RSR stated, don't believe everything you read on the internet.
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Excess teflon on the muzzle threading does make stuff fit tight... Run your muzzle devices back and forth across the threads a few times, and then you shouldn't have a problem. Also always a good idea to add a little grease to the threads before permanently installing...
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@vblue,
Thanks for clarifying. I've just read a lot of disclaimers on Zahal and Czechpoint saying various items won't work, may not work, or will require a lot of effort to get a fit on the VZ2008. That's why I posted. I wanted to find out what is actually working for people. It sounds like most everything is working so I guess I don't have much to worry about.
Thanks again.
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The only comments people have made about that brake with the 2008 is it wobbles a bit. The loose fit does not cause any negative affects and is nothing to worry about. If you're looking to order that brake, order from this link: http://www.cncwarrior.com/Knurled-Compensator-M14-X-1-RH-p/23263.htm
Just leave a note that you have a 2008 and they will tighten it up for you.
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Thanks for the link. I'll order from them.
So the entire "issue" with VZ2008 muzzle brakes was that first gen models were left handed? And now they are all right handed?
Thanks
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I think the disclaimers are left over from the early days of the 2008 and issues Century was having with consistency overall. But to my knowledge there have been no complaints from actual owners of the rifles about brakes for several years and I'm not sure I've ever seen a complaint at all.
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That's great news! I'm a little more excited about getting it now. :)
Thanks
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What are you looking for in the way of "collapsible" stocks. Folding or just an AR tube?
Just an AR tube and collapsible butt stock. No folding necessary. Do you know of a specific model that works well on the VZ2008?
Thanks
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I recommend the Stormwerkz VZ adapters and any mil spec buffer tube will work.
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I recommend the Stormwerkz VZ adapters and any mil spec buffer tube will work.
Thanks for the recommendation. I just want to double check on this. I looked at the Vz-58 Stock Adapter, Type 2, Straight (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-2-straight/) and it has big red letters saying:
***Will Not Fit VZ2008***
In fact, all of their adapters for the Vz. 58 say that. Is it a mistake on their part?
Thanks
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Has anyone tried FAB Defense's Recoil-Compensating Collapsible Buttstock (GLR16) (http://www.themakogroup.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1044361&CAT=8687) on the VZ2008? If so, does it fit well? Easy to install?
Thanks
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Again, many people have these as have I on my first rifle. I have seen 1 person on here report his wouldn't line up properly but have seen many more report no problems.
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Thanks again for the info. They are just driving away sales by putting that message on the page. You'd think they would say it may not work on some models rather than the blanket statement that it will not work on any models.
In any case, I assume the "straight" adapters remove the downward angle I see on standard Vz. 58s. Is that correct? Why do Vz. 58 stocks have downward angles?
Also, they have two straight adapters. One is round and one is square. Besides the shape, what's the difference?
Thanks
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I had the round straight adapter on my first rifle and loved it. It did make it harder to line up the iron sights though. I had to cram my face more info the stock to line them up so if this is undesirable for you you might want to angled adapter. And the square adapter is for folding mechanisms I believe. Also, if you're concerned about wether it will work or not, send an email to the maker and see what he says.
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I'll send him an e-mail and see what he says.
So the downward angle on the stock is necessary to use the sights properly. I'll stick with the angle and not add any complications.
Thanks again for all the info.
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I recommend the Stormwerkz VZ adapters . . . Send an email to the maker and see what he says.
Here's what the Stormwerkz VZ adapter manufacturer said:
The Vz2008 has tolerances all over the map so sometimes the adapter requires minor fitting. But, since we cannot refund for fitted/modified parts, we simply state they don't fit the Vz2008.
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Message him again and ask him when was the last time he heard from someone that had an issue.
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With the universal -- the non-AR tube one) -- either one will work with irons. There are multiple holes to screw into the stock, so you can go w/ straight or angled and still get a good iron sight alignment.
I believe the angle of AK and VZ 58 stocks is sort of like the glock grip angle -- not ideal for minimizing recoil/the strongest mechanical position, but the fact that the angle accommodates a larger variety of shooters w/ different statures presumably is a net gain...
And an inline stock will always provide more control than an angled one FWIW.
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I liked the straight adapter, and I had no problem getting a good sight picture, cheek weld.
It's person to person,
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So that's two votes for straight.
Do you recommend the adapter or is there some other way to do it? Is their a stock and tube combo that allows you to do it without an adapter?
Thanks
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The fab stuff and then VZ58 stocks from the czech republic are your only options for direct fit.
I only mentioned the universal straight (one w/ multiple holes in it) as if it is your rifle then you can adjust the stock height to your specific eye to sight alignment needs, etc.
For the AR, I would go w/ the angled personally as you can move your head forward and back and try different width stock pads on the magpul stocks or whatever/different stock retaining holes on the buffer tube to get the ideal sight picture for you...
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The fab stuff and then VZ58 stocks from the czech republic are your only options for direct fit.
Forgive my ignorance, but I haven't used a collapsible stock before so I'm not completely familiar with all that's involved. For "direct fit", do you mean using the stock without an adapter?
I only mentioned the universal straight (one w/ multiple holes in it) as if it is your rifle then you can adjust the stock height to your specific eye to sight alignment needs, etc.
When you say "universal straight", I assume you mean a collapsible stock that does not have the downward angle. Are you talking about using an adapter or a "universal" stock?
So a "universal straight" would allow me to adjust it so the sights aren't an issue? Can you give me an example of a universal straight stock?
For the AR, I would go w/ the angled personally as you can move your head forward and back and try different width stock pads on the magpul stocks or whatever/different stock retaining holes on the buffer tube to get the ideal sight picture for you...
Are you talking about using the angled adapter that allows me to use any AR stock?
Sorry for being so dense on this. I just learned about "buffer tubes" in the past week. I know, pretty unbelievable. :'( But I don't own a rifle or shotgun with a collapsible stock or pistol grip or rails, so it's all pretty new to me.
If you could spell out the adapters, tubes, and stocks you are referring to, that would help my sluggish brain.
Thank you for all your input.
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Yes, no adapter = direct fit.
Stormwerkz sells AR tube and flat universal adapters. I am referring to the latter.
If you're wanting to do an AR stock, you're probably best served to wait for Czechpoint's adapter to come back in... Looks to be between straight and factory angle and also, from reviews here, higher quality than stormwerkz as it uses the standard folding stock screw...
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Thanks for the info!
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So, if I get an adapter from Stormwerkz, will each of the flat/multi-hole adapters (straight (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-3-straight/) or angled (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-4-factory-angle/)) allow me to adjust the buttstock to either straight or angled? Or is their a specific flat/multi-hole adapter I need for that?
Thanks
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So, if I get an adapter from Stormwerkz, will each of the flat/multi-hole adapters (straight (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-3-straight/) or angled (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-4-factory-angle/)) allow me to adjust the buttstock to either straight or angled? Or is their a specific flat/multi-hole adapter I need for that?
Thanks
Huh?
There are slanted adapters ("factory slant") and straight adaptors (although mine doesn't appear to be that straight) -- there is no adjustment, unless to take one off and put the other on. The only other Stormwerkz option is fixed tube interface or drilled for modular (e.g. ACE no boss, Stormwerkz, Tromix, others?) stock adapters.
http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-3-straight/ (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-3-straight/)
http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-4-factory-angle/ (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-4-factory-angle/)
http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-1-factory-angle/ (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-1-factory-angle/)
http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-2-straight/ (http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-2-straight/)
Vz-58 stock adapter allows M4 carbine stocks to be used on Vz-58.
This adapter mounts the stock at the angle of the factory stock.
This adapter was developed from original Czech receivers, aftermarket receivers may fit tight.
***Will Not Fit VZ2008***
I think some folks had some issues with the block modular adapters fitting up.