The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => Compact CZ 75s => Topic started by: Scarlett Pistol on August 17, 2015, 11:32:16 PM
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I am going to get a CZ 75 Compact, the steel model with a safety. I want to use it as a carry gun and a range gun. I'm going to order all the parts to make the trigger incredible, but I'm not sure what type of trigger to go with. Should I keep it SA/DA and get all the goodies to make it short reset and what not? OR should I get everything to make it an incredible SA? I'd love to do dry fire practice in the DA mode and it sounds like all the CGW and CZ Custom stuff can make for an incredible SA/DA. But I could get the SAO pretty awesome too. If it isn't clear I have an internal conflict... Is the SA/DA get a pretty good SA with all the goodies?
As a side note, can anyone reference me to any studies on the proven likelihood of needing a firing pin block? I've heard lots of opinions, but haven't seen any referenced research citing real numbers of how often guns are going off when the safety is on or in any other scenario where the FPB saved someone or would have saved someone. Thanks in advance for the opinions and any guidance on the research behind this safety mechanism!
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I am going to get a CZ 75 Compact, the steel model with a safety. I want to use it as a carry gun and a range gun. I'm going to order all the parts to make the trigger incredible, but I'm not sure what type of trigger to go with. Should I keep it SA/DA and get all the goodies to make it short reset and what not? OR should I get everything to make it an incredible SA? I'd love to do dry fire practice in the DA mode and it sounds like all the CGW and CZ Custom stuff can make for an incredible SA/DA. But I could get the SAO pretty awesome too. If it isn't clear I have an internal conflict... Is the SA/DA get a pretty good SA with all the goodies?
As a side note, can anyone reference me to any studies on the proven likelihood of needing a firing pin block? I've heard lots of opinions, but haven't seen any referenced research citing real numbers of how often guns are going off when the safety is on or in any other scenario where the FPB saved someone or would have saved someone. Thanks in advance for the opinions and any guidance on the research behind this safety mechanism!
I enjoy da dry fire with my pistol. Easier than cocking the hammer.
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Go SA/DA and have it all. Carry cocked and locked, still have second strike capability. Don't know about studies but when the FPB is all polished up there is very little difference to the trigger pull IMO so why remove a safety.
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Both points that led me to consider keeping it SA/DA. The FPB causes it to have a longer required pull length though, right? Does the SRT from CGW modify anything interacting with the FPB? Thanks for the opinions, keep em coming!
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Both points that led me to consider keeping it SA/DA. The FPB causes it to have a longer required pull length though, right? Does the SRT from CGW modify anything interacting with the FPB? Thanks for the opinions, keep em coming!
The fpb has nothing to do with length of pull and with it's factory springs it increases the perceived weight of the trigger pull in DA or SA only slightly. There are lighter springs available to reduce the resistance of the fpb. Disabling the fpb will increase the chances that the gun can fire unintentionally if dropped on the muzzle. I'd stay with DA/SA since going SA only on a carry gun reduces carry options to condition 1 or condition 2 in which case the hammer would have to be manually cocked before firing which could be detrimental in a self defense situation.
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I dropped mine the other day. 1st time in almost 30 years of CC. I was pulling my shirt out to untuck because it was hot out. The shirt musta snagged somehow and pulled the PCR right out of the IWB. WHAM, on the deck on the hammer. I believe I would leave the trigger and hammer mechanism function like they were meant too. That could have been really bad if it had been modified. The muzzle was pointing right at my leg when the dust settled. It was no big deal since my PCR has not been modified.
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I would go DA/SA. You always have the SA option. If I try to carry cocked and locked, I cannot deactivate the trigger on the draw without altering my grip, even on my Shadow with the extended safety. CZ safeties mount farther from the grip than 1911s. Your thumbs may be longer than mine and it not cause a problem for you. However, the SA trigger on DA/SA can be made to be very nice and still give you both DA and SA.
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Having the firing pin block adds in some pretravel movement in the action, because you need to have a little more room to make sure the sear and the block lever reset properly and reliably.
given that on a carry gun, I would probably keep the block intact.
that said, I would go with DA/SA with short reset, and then go with the old style trigger shape. ( 85 orignal or 97 )
the steel frame compact is still one of the best values out there. the gun new is under $500
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The whole safety/thumb/reach issue and cocked and locked issue's , are why I prefer the CZ (D) decocker models. Only an intentional trigger pull can make it go bang. Cant get much safer than that.
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Thanks for all the feedback, super appreciated! So what's the best route for short reset SA/DA? I see CZC will do a short reset in house, do they sell a kit like CGW? Any opinions on my shopping list for hammers, triggers, and so forth?
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I have a 75B DA/SA with most of the goodies. The trigger on this pistol is arguably as good and maybe even with a "cleaner break" Than my 75 Shadow with no FPB that also has all the improvements.
With CGW or CZC upgrades you will not be unhappy keeping the DA/SA and the FPB/safety.
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1SOW, I've tried figuring out if there is a short reset kit from CZC or if it is just a gunsmithing option from their shop. Was that your route or do you have the kit from CGW. Do you mind sharing the list of goodies you put into that trigger system? (hammer, Springs, trigger, and so forth?). I'd like to avoid reinventing the wheel...
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I could be wrong, but I believe the CZC short reset kit is an oversized disconnector. That disconnector is then sanded/filed down to the exact point giving you the shortest reset. So CZC charges for the hand fitting and part.
CGW sells a similar part to where you have to fit the disconnector, along with their drop in kits.
CZC has a pre b disconnector is a drop in part for pistols without FPBs.
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I could be wrong, but I believe the CZC short reset kit is an oversized disconnector. That disconnector is then sanded/filed down to the exact point giving you the shortest reset. So CZC charges for the hand fitting and part.
CGW sells a similar part to where you have to fit the disconnector, along with their drop in kits.
CZC has a pre b disconnector is a drop in part for pistols without FPBs.
Thanks TX for the clarification. I sent David, at CGW, an email today to get some clarification on parts, kits, differences, and recommendations. To be fair to the main 2 shops I'll send an email over to CZC as well. I don't have any preference or bias, just trying to navigate differences and get some understanding.
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TX_, ^^^^ what he said.
CZC uses the PreB disco and fits it for the full size 75s. I don't have personal experience with a compact. A practice range friend asked me about his Compact and I suggested contacting CGW with his preferences. He did, and I tried his trigger. VERY nicely set up for carry. Great SA pull and reset. Smooth DA.
Scarlet, my CZs both have improved hammers, all lighter springs (except the trigger spring), extended FPs and polished mating surfaces.
My Shadow has the CZC Comp Hammer and CGW short reset disco, while my 75B was worked on by David for his initial run of reach reduction triggers and has the SPO1 Shadow Hammer cut-to-fit my B by David.
My Shadow DA is under 5# and 2.4# SA. Haven't measured the B with a gage.
The CGW short reset disco is drop-in on "most" pistols. Some need a little fitting. I put mine in on my Shadow and it was a close fit. [The 75 Shadow didn't come with one when I bought mine.]
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I'd keep DA/SA and put in a short reset disconnector. For a carry pistol, its probably better to leave in the FPB but I'll say that I pulled the FPBs from my compact and my 97. CGW makes short reset disconnectors for both FPB and no FPB models, type 1 and 2 I believe. Sometimes, they require some fitting. Stuart can chime in on the CZC short reset disconnector but I think it definitely requires fitting in FPB equipped guns. I've got both the CZC and CGW disconnectors and they both provide for excellent triggers.
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Thanks everyone for all the feedback! Got my new CZ 75 Compact (steel frame, manual safety last night). It was a toss up, but I ordered a bunch of parts today and I'll be going with a SAO w the FPB for now. If I change my mind in the future I can just order a reach reduction trigger and CGW disco and I am in business. Here's the list of parts I ordered. Dave and Stuart have been helping out. If anyone has any other ideas chime in (obviously in reason... I've done about enough damage to my bank account this month).
CZC:
SAO Trigger (I have a TS and wanted to try this out to see if I want it for both pistols)
Competition Hammer (Low)
SS Guide Rod
14# recoil spring
Aluminum Black Checker Grips (compact size)
CGW:
Front Fiber Optic Site
Short Reset System 2
A bunch of pins
Thanks to all the posts here I'm feeling well equipped to do all the polishing and fine tuning for the trigger system and everything else. I've worked on 1911 and striker fired pistols, so it isn't my first rodeo, but I'm happy to hear any tips and tricks or be pointed to any other must read threads (I've read all the stickies in the gunsmithing section.
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As a carry gun I would keep the firing pin block and I do on my C100.
That said the ultimate range trigger is an SA with a flat blade trigger (pretravel and overtravel screws) with the FPB removed, I have 2 guns in this configuration and had a third one and they are all beyond what you can acheive with DA/SA 3mm travel and crisp break, almost no takeup and no, nada zero overtravel.
My carry gun the C100 is SAO with a FPB in place and I have no worries about it. If it drops I am more worried about damaging it than being shot by it.
I see you posted while I was typing.
If you still have time, ask david to add some FPB lifter springs to your order, I keep spares as they are tiny scissor springs and can fly out when you are reassembling the gun.
Also if you ordered the straight blade trigger (it is a great choice) make sure you allow enough takeup on the pretravel screw to allow for the FPB lifter to reset. Stuart and David probably already told you but the reset for the FPB is further forward than the reset for the hammer. And check it with the slide on since it actually changes between slide off and slide on.
No one wants to need their gun and not have it go bang at the appropriate moment.
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By the way the C100 is almost an identical gun to what you are building, You will Love it!
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Thanks Terry, great to hear someone else with something almost the same and loving it. I'll send David a message and see if it catches him before he sends everything. I'm really excited and can't wait for everything to come. Plus, I've found I really enjoy gunsmithing my pistols and this will be a good little project for a few nights amidst studying.
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Once you get used to the CZ sear design they are not hard to work on and very rewarding when you are done.
Make sure you polish all the bearing surfaces the hammer and sear will not need it on the faces but polishing all the other surfaces makes the trigger so smooth. There are literally dozens of articles including one I did on my C100.