The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ BREN => Topic started by: armoredman on October 13, 2015, 08:56:32 PM
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Oh, my....
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/10/12/cz-announces-cz-806-bren-2-improved-modular-assault-rifle/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
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Looking better! Non-reciprocating op handle (no more support hand thumb "ouch"); integrated mag well and lower receiver for different magazine types (the modular 805 mag well, as a separate piece, looked a bit weak in the way it attached to the lower receiver); improved left side bolt catch/release design with a second one located in the trigger guard; ambi mag release; cleaner/streamlined stock....that's the primary ergonomic changes that I gathered from the Czenglish. [emoji1] See anything else?
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Looks like they improved everything that was keeping me from a 805. Non reciprocating charging handle and better bolt catch/release are big. I wonder if that is why the US got a bunch of 805 Brens? Dumping existing stock so they can give the 806 to the CZ mil.
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I'd hate to think that, but it's plausible, plus the fact that all 805 pistols sold in the US are going to be collectors items someday, low production.
I am waiting for the 806 pistol and carbine.
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Possible price drop on the 805s that have already been made?
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We do have to remember there is no guarantee that the 806 will be approved for import. Just because it's related to the 805 doesn't grant a family exemption. :)
I think we'll continue to see the 805 for a while yet, and then the 806, not sure when.
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I did get some more info - it appears the press release may have been premature. Don't expect the 806 to hit any civilian market for a few years. :'(
However, the 805 is still a rockin' firearm that we can probably expect to see for a few more years. 8)
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I say get an 805 while you can. IF they import the 806's... those of us who choose to can upgrade. I know I am not going to take a chance and hope to pick up my 805 within the next few weeks.
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I agree - still saving up. :)
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IMO, they still should've just refined the VZ58... O0
If I'm reading it right, it will support both 7.62x39 and 5.56:
Bren 2 rifles family were announced at the DSEI arms fair in London (DSEI 2015: CZ Bren announced carbine 2, 2015-09-18). This structure formed on the basis of export varieties of CZ 807, which competed in the Indian weapon trials, canceled the program MCAR. Weapon referred to as the CZ 806 is adapted for ammunition 5.56 mm x 7.62 mm and 45 x 39, while maintaining the same drain chamber. The exchange will only be subject barrel, the castle and the magazine. In a variation of 5.56 mm would be a standard magazine M16, when the gun is supplied with the cartridge Russian model will be used for identical dimensions of the upper part of the hull.
For carbine's I prefer 7.62x39 and for rifles I prefer 5.56... So this is awesome.
The grip angle also changed which both the Bren and EVO both desperately need... Better yet, incorporate interchangeable grips via AK or AR patterns...
I also don't know why they dropped the 2 round burst... It's the only burst that's scientifically sound and should improve hit ratios... Seems shortsighted for a military weapon...
Unless CZUSA or others either opt to build rifles here, or to modify sporter versions here back to original configuration (still manufacture, just smaller factory), we will not see rifles in the USA only pistols under the current firearms legal regime...
So you all are correct about Bren pistols being collectors items... Especially considering that the Galil ACE, Bren, SCAR, ARX100, HK416 (effectively a piston AR15), and perhaps the Polish MSBS are pretty much the only legitimate contenders in any modern military weapon trials these days... (I consider the direct impingement AR15 to be previous generation technology so am not including...) Of the polymers, I probably lean towards the Beretta and the metals the Galil, but the latest changes of the Bren might win me over (the ugliness of the galil ace compared to the original would play no small part in swaying...).
SCAR is here, believe the HK is but haven't seen in person (MR556a1), Polish is supposedly coming, Galil is here in pistol, Beretta is here, and Bren is here in pistol.
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I don't plan on taking a chance with elections rolling around waiting on a "better" iteration of the 800 series. Truthfully, a new interchangeable magwell with an updated bolt hold open/release will be something they can fix without building a complete new rifle. The non-reciprocating bolt handle I suspect will require too much to just be an in-field upgrade. it is cool they're continuing to mature the platform though!
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I know I definitely won't be able to afford another rifle for years, anyway, so I'm eagerly awaiting the 806... when it (hopefully) eventually is approved for import, I might have enough pennies saved up by then :)
Also, very glad to see that the 806 is also multi-caliber like the 805. Hopefully the (future) import options will include the 7.62x39 version so my vz. 58 can have a buddy ;D
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/03/28/more-details-corrections-to-pakistani-trials-rifles/
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I know I definitely won't be able to afford another rifle for years, anyway, so I'm eagerly awaiting the 806... when it (hopefully) eventually is approved for import, I might have enough pennies saved up by then :)
Also, very glad to see that the 806 is also multi-caliber like the 805. Hopefully the (future) import options will include the 7.62x39 version so my vz. 58 can have a buddy ;D
We're in the same boat.
We shall see what effect this has: http://www.shotshow.org
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I was very privileged to go to SHOT 2015, never had so much fun ever. Someday, someday I'm going back!
I doubt this SHOT will have it, but with the massive sea change in Congress and Administration across the land, SHOT 2018 might, just might, (this is ME talking, no rumors or anything else, my wishful thinking), might have a BREN 2 Carbine for us lowly civilian types. What would be even better would be Scorpion EVO S1 and BREN 805/2 Carbine SBRs showing off due to the repeal of SBR/SBS from NFA '34...:) One thing I would expect for SHOT 2018 would be factory built suppressor models as I am fairly certain the Hearing Protection Act will slide right on through this year.
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If it happens, my Sig 556XI will be sold and I'll get a BREN 806.
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I doubt this SHOT will have it, but with the massive sea change in Congress and Administration across the land, SHOT 2018 might, just might, (this is ME talking, no rumors or anything else, my wishful thinking), might have a BREN 2 Carbine for us lowly civilian types. What would be even better would be Scorpion EVO S1 and BREN 805/2 Carbine SBRs showing off due to the repeal of SBR/SBS from NFA '34...:) One thing I would expect for SHOT 2018 would be factory built suppressor models as I am fairly certain the Hearing Protection Act will slide right on through this year.
I really look forward to the hearing protection act.
Gun industry is going to be in for an interesting few years. There was a lot of panic or preemptive buying over the past few years. I think there's going to be and has been a hard cool off. Likely won't see super sale pricing until around tax time to maybe mid-year after a soft tax sale season...
I don't think for weapons like the 806, etc, that are being produced regardless we'll see much change in import and distribution plans, but for mass market guns including ARs I wouldn't be surprised to see some builders closing up shop. Hope I'm wrong, but leaner times are ahead for the gun industry in the short term IMHO.
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Unless things change and priorities refocus, such as severely ramped up production of barrels with integral suppressors. :) Green Mountain is gonna have a bumper year. :D Yeah, some AR guys are going to go away - WAY too many players in that field. Time to sit down and think about that better mousetrap, guys.
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Better mousetrap is in part why I think guns like the CZ semi-auto imports of all types will remain strong... That and not having a president that will use the ban hammer in all ways -- from imports to outright possession of weapons w/ certain "bad" features will give folks on the fence the time (both budget and logistics) to acquire deep mag and spare parts stockpiles where needed for new weapon systems they've been desiring.
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If the 806 is released in the states it won't matter much to me. I am an AK guy and left handed. I prefer a right side of the rifle charging handle and could care less that it reciprocates. I'm so use to running the bolt/carrier assy every time after a reload. I'm sure the 806 will be great but there are a few of us that like the setup on the 805 just like it is. Maybe 20 years from now my FDE 805 will be rare lol
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Actually, probably will be, like mine. :) Quite happy with my 805.
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If the 806 is released in the states it won't matter much to me. I am an AK guy and left handed. I prefer a right side of the rifle charging handle and could care less that it reciprocates. I'm so use to running the bolt/carrier assy every time after a reload. I'm sure the 806 will be great but there are a few of us that like the setup on the 805 just like it is. Maybe 20 years from now my FDE 805 will be rare lol
How do you like a reciprocating charging handle in your field of view? I have shot as a lefty to assess, and found it distracting w/ my VZ58s and AKs -- but then I shoot right normally so everything seems off when shooting left-handed. Point being, 806 has a non reciprocating charging handle...
Also if I recall armoredman got some thumb punishment when he first shot his 805...
Both possible issues would be mitigated w/ a non-reciprocating charging handle -- yes, all things considered a reciprocating charging handle is more reliable/durable due to less parts...
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Yes I did...and then I moved the handle to the right side, AK style, and it was all good. :) I would like to have a NON reciprocating bolt handle, that's for certain, but with the forward pistol grip and the moved handle, it became a non issue. The bolt release, now that's an issue I wish we could fix with the 805, if there was enough room inside the reciever to make one work.
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The 805 S1 has no bolt hold open, right?
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The 805 has a bolt catch but no bolt release. The operator must use the charging handle to unlock the bolt once it has been locked to the rear.
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Looking better! Non-reciprocating op handle (no more support hand thumb "ouch"); integrated mag well and lower receiver for different magazine types (the modular 805 mag well, as a separate piece, looked a bit weak in the way it attached to the lower receiver); improved left side bolt catch/release design with a second one located in the trigger guard; ambi mag release; cleaner/streamlined stock....that's the primary ergonomic changes that I gathered from the Czenglish. [emoji1] See anything else?
Curious if reciprocating handle has some benefit i'm unaware of....i see the new HK 433 will have one. Seems odd to me but maybe i'm missing something?
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Reciprocating has less parts and is generally more reliable. Non-reciprocating can't get hooked on anything when cycling that might impede function but generally non can only control in rearward motion, not forward.
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Reciprocating has less parts and is generally more reliable. Non-reciprocating can't get hooked on anything when cycling that might impede function but generally non can only control in rearward motion, not forward.
Thanks much for the reply.
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Pretty much every reciprocating charging handle also acts as a forward-assist. That's not possible with most non-reciprocating charging handles (like the Evo). However, some guns have some means to still use the non-reciprocating charging handle as forward assist if needed. The Walther MPL SMG comes to mind.
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Pretty much every reciprocating charging handle also acts as a forward-assist. That's not possible with most non-reciprocating charging handles (like the Evo). However, some guns have some means to still use the non-reciprocating charging handle as forward assist if needed. The Walther MPL SMG comes to mind.
The new HK 433 will have a non-reciprocating charging handle with an integrated forward assist. I'm very excited for it, but I hope it's not SCAR-priced.
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The new HK 433 is a nice weapon, I have no doubts, but even anyone born today will die of old age before you see one for sale. They had plenty of opportunity to bring us the G36. HK could care less about public sales.
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Pretty much every reciprocating charging handle also acts as a forward-assist. That's not possible with most non-reciprocating charging handles (like the Evo). However, some guns have some means to still use the non-reciprocating charging handle as forward assist if needed. The Walther MPL SMG comes to mind.
The new HK 433 will have a non-reciprocating charging handle with an integrated forward assist. I'm very excited for it, but I hope it's not SCAR-priced.
Ha! HK cheaper than FN? Nonsense!