The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ Scorpion EVO => Topic started by: HBi on November 28, 2015, 04:01:55 PM
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Thank you again to everyone in this community for your daily encouragement and for showing so much support for our new products. HBI is proud to introduce our "Theta" family of controls for the Scorpion; including a machined trigger and charging handle. We will continue to post updates here as the different parts are released.
12-11 Update: Theta charging handles are now available! Both Red and Black.
- Theta Extended Charging Handle - http://hbindustries.net/store/shop/cz-scorpion-evo-3-theta-extended-charging-handle/
12-04 Update: Theta triggers are now available! We have two flat trigger geometries:
- Theta Stock Trigger - Stock location flat trigger - http://hbindustries.net/store/shop/cz-scorpion-evo-3-theta-stock-trigger/
- Theta Forward Trigger - 5mm forward trigger, reduces pull weight - http://hbindustries.net/store/shop/cz-scorpion-evo-3-theta-forward-trigger/
Both trigger variations are available in Black or Red.
Now for the pictures!
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/combo.jpg)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HB-Industries-ScorpionThetaRed-Trigger-Installed-Web-small-e1449285455149.jpg)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HB-Industries-ScorpionTheta-Black-Trigger-Installed-Web-small-e1449285466279.jpg)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HB-Industries-Scorpion-Theta-Charging-Handle-Black.jpg)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HB-Industries-ScorpionTheta-Red.jpg)
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Looking good guys!
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Can't wait to try one of these!
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Can't say I am overly please to see you used our charging handle construction method instead of coming up with your own. You even used two roll pins to secure the handle. If I were to take a wild guess I would say you looked at the rendering we posted in September and just added your design language the the handle portion.
I guess lucky for you I didn't file patent paperwork on our charging handle design. :P
Sven
Manticore Arms
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I would, personally, like to see one of these oversized handles skeletonized.
Regards,
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I would, personally, like to see one of these oversized handles skeletonized.
Regards,
Same here. I think that it would look really cool that way.
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I'd like to see a folding CH, but as M.A has stated, that may need a good amount of engineering behind it before it happens
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These look really nice, I am waiting for a folding handle though. I like the idea of having more surface area, but not permanently sticking out the side.
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A folding charging handle would be amazing. Manticore already offers several folding designs for other platforms, so it would be a natural product for them. Fingers crossed that Sven and his team can do it!
We don't have any plans at this time to make a folding version, but have been testing and evaluating a couple other shapes. Cue Jason's comment above :-)
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5043.jpg)
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5044.jpg)
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What's amazing here is the support these small companies have for each other, like the comment posted above. THIS is why I suspended the normal rules for this subfum, and to get the word out! Scorpions are gonna be the new wave!
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(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a581/amd6061/IMG_5043%20-%20Copy_zpsjn1q8g5a.jpg)
I thought I like the design with the holes but after seeing this.... definitely going to be my choice!
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A folding charging handle would be amazing. Manticore already offers several folding designs for other platforms, so it would be a natural product for them. Fingers crossed that Sven and his team can do it!
We don't have any plans at this time to make a folding version, but have been testing and evaluating a couple other shapes. Cue Jason's comment above :-)
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5043.jpg)
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5044.jpg)
That looks good man, definitely your own design language on that one. I support that design as each of our extended charging handles will be instantly recognizable, and fill a different niche of the market. ;)
We will have a folding charging handle available probably by the first of the year. Just finishing up the R&D on it right now.
Sven
Manticore Arms
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You should do that skeletonizatioin on your new triggers too, if they aren't already in the machines- has a very unique look to it. :)
Sven
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Theta Series triggers are now in stock and shipping :-) Charging handles coming soon...
http://hbindustries.net/store/shop/cz-scorpion-evo-3-theta-stock-trigger/
http://hbindustries.net/store/shop/cz-scorpion-evo-3-theta-forward-trigger/
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/DSC_0251-Small-e1449285822217.jpg)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/DSC_0243-small-e1449285809319.jpg)
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The triggers and charging handle look great! When do you expect the charging handle to be available too?
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Very cool!
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Very cool, guys congrats on getting it done and the pictures look amazing.
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Awesome...love the aftermarket that's happening for the scorp.
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Charging handles start shipping today :-)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HB-Industries-Scorpion-Theta-Charging-Handle-Black.jpg)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HB-Industries-ScorpionTheta-Charging-Handle-Red.jpg)
(http://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HB-Industries-ScorpionTheta-Red.jpg)
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Before I put in an order for a black one... Will you guys be making the skeletonized looking handle pictured in post #8?
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Before I put in an order for a black one... Will you guys be making the skeletonized looking handle pictured in post #8?
^ We are planning to add another "style" of trigger and charging handle to our line-up, and the skeletonized look is getting more nods than the others. SO, long answer is yes, we are making something similar to what we posted above, but it will not be ready this week, or this month. I wish that I could give you an exact timeline or date, but right now this is the best I can do.
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Before I put in an order for a black one... Will you guys be making the skeletonized looking handle pictured in post #8?
^ We are planning to add another "style" of trigger and charging handle to our line-up, and the skeletonized look is getting more nods than the others. SO, long answer is yes, we are making something similar to what we posted above, but it will not be ready this week, or this month. I wish that I could give you an exact timeline or date, but right now this is the best I can do.
No worries, that's all I needed to know, thanks! I'll be holding out to see what else you've got cooking. :D
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Anyone tried the new forward trigger from HBI? I just ordered one today, I liked the other one as well but prefer the trigger with the little hook on the end.
Both excellent looking products.
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bleep, I really want that charging handle but I'm holding out for someone to release a foldable one like the HK guns.
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Anyone tried the new forward trigger from HBI? I just ordered one today, I liked the other one as well but prefer the trigger with the little hook on the end.
Both excellent looking products.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIWUMAV2GY
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Looks awesome! The back handle and safety delete will be my first mods!
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Got mine in today and installed within 10 minutes. One thing I noticed, the roll pin did NOT want to go in. I had to press it in with a bench vise, then finish it off with a few solid taps. I was questioning if I was doing it right at first :)
After getting it back together I played with it for a bit. The pull does feel better, will take me a little while to get used to the sharp edges of the flat trigger but I like it. Definitely better than stock. I think HBI would be wise to get rid of the 90 degree angle on the front of the trigger. just to make it feel slightly smoother at the point of contact.
That said, fit and finish is as expected from any top company.
Good product and good job!
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just a quick ? dosent have to do with the triggers or handle
does the ak safety/selector interfere with the cz factory side-folding stock?
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No, it clears it with no problems. You'll love that safety, works great!
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When do you expect to have more of the red forward triggers for the scorpion in? Thanks
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When do you expect to have more of the red forward triggers for the scorpion in? Thanks
^ We are machining more right now. We sent a small batch to anodizing earlier this week, just to get them in the que before the holiday. Those should be done, inspected, and back in stock mid-late next week. Hard to give an exact date because anodizing is an outside process and we do not have any control on their lead time, especially with the holidays playing into things.
Sounds like we should post something here when they are back in stock.
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Looks interesting.
After your R&D, how would you compare the quality and, especially, strength of your charging handle to the OEM?
Any difference in charging rod, roll pin, handle material that you can comment upon that marks your's as equal or superior to OEM?
What is your warranty?
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Looks interesting.
After your R&D, how would you compare the quality and, especially, strength of your charging handle to the OEM?
Any difference in charging rod, roll pin, handle material that you can comment upon that marks your's as equal or superior to OEM?
What is your warranty?
^ Wonderful questions Cinco, glad that you asked :-) The factory charging handle is constructed by overmolding a carbon steel rod with a polymer finger catch. Our charging handle is constructed with a 17-4 stainless rod, precision ground and wire EDM cut to VERY tight tolerances. The precision rod is then outfitted with a machined aluminum finger catch. The finger catch is anodized per MIL-A-8625 either in type2 class2 red, or type3 class2 black (hardcoat). The 17-4 stainless is both durable and corrosion resistant, and the tight tolerance control ensures precise fitment with the aluminum finger catch.
Regarding performance, the factory charging handle on every Scorpion that I have ever handled has functioned flawlessly. They do not bend/twist or bind, CZ did a great job. However, we designed ours to not only last longer (more durable materials) but by extending the finger catch we believe that our charging handle geometry improves ergonomics by allowing better finger purchase on the handle itself, and less knuckle grinding on the picatinny rails...
The material selection is a scientific advantage, the ergonomics are going to be a personal preference. If you want to get your finger(s) away from the picatinny rails, or want to get a better purchase on the finger catch then our design might be worth looking at. If you are not having any problems with your factory charging handle, then we can't in good conscious tell you that ours will be of any ergonomic benefit for you.
Hope this helps.... Thanks!
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A folding charging handle would be amazing. Manticore already offers several folding designs for other platforms, so it would be a natural product for them. Fingers crossed that Sven and his team can do it!
We don't have any plans at this time to make a folding version, but have been testing and evaluating a couple other shapes. Cue Jason's comment above :-)
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5043.jpg)
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5044.jpg)
Hey Phil,
Any updates on whether this design will see production? I am really interested in a couple. As Sven alluded, will you be making a trigger in the same design?
Regards,
Jason
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Looks interesting.
After your R&D, how would you compare the quality and, especially, strength of your charging handle to the OEM?
Any difference in charging rod, roll pin, handle material that you can comment upon that marks your's as equal or superior to OEM?
What is your warranty?
^ Wonderful questions Cinco, glad that you asked :-) The factory charging handle is constructed by overmolding a carbon steel rod with a polymer finger catch. Our charging handle is constructed with a 17-4 stainless rod, precision ground and wire EDM cut to VERY tight tolerances. The precision rod is then outfitted with a machined aluminum finger catch. The finger catch is anodized per MIL-A-8625 either in type2 class2 red, or type3 class2 black (hardcoat). The 17-4 stainless is both durable and corrosion resistant, and the tight tolerance control ensures precise fitment with the aluminum finger catch.
Regarding performance, the factory charging handle on every Scorpion that I have ever handled has functioned flawlessly. They do not bend/twist or bind, CZ did a great job. However, we designed ours to not only last longer (more durable materials) but by extending the finger catch we believe that our charging handle geometry improves ergonomics by allowing better finger purchase on the handle itself, and less knuckle grinding on the picatinny rails...
The material selection is a scientific advantage, the ergonomics are going to be a personal preference. If you want to get your finger(s) away from the picatinny rails, or want to get a better purchase on the finger catch then our design might be worth looking at. If you are not having any problems with your factory charging handle, then we can't in good conscious tell you that ours will be of any ergonomic benefit for you.
Hope this helps.... Thanks!
Thanks for the very detailed explanation, I much appreciate it. Looks like a definite improvement in construction. I hope to place an order this week.
PS - What is the warranty offered?
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Cinco - I am so sorry, I completely missed your warranty question the first time around. All of our products come with a limited lifetime warranty. This means that at our discretion we will replace any part or assembly under warranty and free of charge for the original owner over the life of the product. We have replaced triggers for a couple customers that banged them up very badly during installation, no fault of our product, we just believe in offering the best support that we can. So in the above statement the word "discretion" just means that we reserve the right to refuse warranty support in the case that our products are intentionally abused or used outside of their design intent... IE: no using our charging handle as a prybar in your upcoming flooring project... things like that.
Jason - We are working on the skeletonized charging handle, and possibly a matching trigger (trigger requires a material change, will only be available in black). I don't want to promise any dates yet because we have not even sent them out for group testing yet. We have prototyped several variations internally, and are doing everything that we can to finalize the design. The skeletonized charging handle shapes want to hold dirt and debris much more than the cross drilled variations, trying to get clever with the internal angles/geometry so that debris always fall through or deflect out of our skeleton profile rather than trying to get stuck inside.
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^ HBi - Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions with detailed construction information. That combined with your great customer service here make me feel confident to go with your products.
Just ordered a charging handle and spring kit as a result. Good luck with your continuing ventures.
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Thank you Cinco! We really appreciate your business and support. Your parts will ship out today :-)
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^ Yippee! See great customer service. Much appreciated!
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HBi and Phil,
First, I wanted to thank you again for answering all my technical questions and then the fast shipment of the new charging handle and spring set.
Second, I wanted to comment how pleased I am with the Theta Charging Handle.
I was struck by the evident quality of the new unit when I opened the package. It certainly appears to be a MUCH more robust charging handle than the OEM unit. Installation was super easy using Buffman's video.
Manipulation of charging the bolt is now MUCH, MUCH better. I'm guessing the extended length lends itself to increased leveraging and a much easier charging of the weapon. In addition, the extended length now allows almost two full fingers on the handle. Operation was super smooth and seems to engage even better in the bolt hold open slot. I moved the OEM unit to the right hand side and I now have a redundant system.
Thanks for bringing such a high quality item to market. In addition, thanks for being a great American company providing excellent R&D, products and customer service. I wish you a very prosperous New Year.
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Just placed my order for the red charging handle to match my trigger. I hope I like it, honestly it looks a little big in the photos but I am the only one who has noticed/said anything about it so maybe its just my prospective. If its a little on the large side its not the end of the world, I am looking for improved functionality not perfect looks.
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(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5043.jpg)
(http://www.hbindustries.net/img/IMG_5044.jpg)
I like this charging handle. What's the status on this design?
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Flanneryevo3 - After more iterations that I'd like to admit, we do have a final skeleton design. This one is slightly more compact than our Theta variant, but still 6mm longer/larger than the factory design. This handle also has a deeper finger pocket with more dramatic angles that provide a very positive "purchase" when manipulating the charging handle. We have had great feedback on the ergonomics of this design, and unlike the earlier design posted above, this one does not hold debris nor does it try to eat the velcro closure on your glove when you give it the "HK slap"! (don't ask :))
We are machining the AR style selector levers right now, and will be making production fixtures and starting on both the skeletonized charging handles and matching triggers next week. We send all of our parts outside for anodizing, but as soon as they are back we will post something here!
(https://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/HBI-Skeleton-Trigger-Charging-Handle800x530.jpg)
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What happened to the pics? Broken link?
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What happened to the pics? Broken link?
^ We have tried this thread on several devices (pcs/tablets/phones) and in several different browsers... the pictures seem to all work alright for us; is anyone else having trouble seeing the pics?
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I can see them fine on Chrome and Android.
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that design is sick!! I'm definitely gonna buy both. Keep us updated.
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@HBi,
I was planning on ordering the Theta trigger, but I am interested in learning more about the skeletonized trigger.
Is the skeltonized trigger like the stock trigger or is it a forward type trigger?
When will they be available for ordering?
Thanks!
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I put the new charging handle in, along with the trigger and spring kit. WOW, what a difference! Joy to shoot now.
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CZTAK - Our skeletonized triggers will be available by the end of February (going to release at same time as charging handles). They are a forward type design. The center of the trigger arc is +5mm offset from the factory trigger, and the lower tip of the arc is +7mm forward. The center arc offset aids in producing more leverage about the trigger/sear pivot, and the increased lower arc offset helps to support the finger keeping it centered on the trigger for very consistent follow up shots (trigger feels faster). If that makes sense? If not, pictures are worth 1000 words :-)
(https://hbindustries.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/DELTA-VS-STOCK_MARKED-UP_20160208-e1454950719963.jpg)
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I put the new charging handle in, along with the trigger and spring kit. WOW, what a difference! Joy to shoot now.
Thank you for the kind words! Glad you are enjoying your Scorpion even more now; they are such a blast!
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Color choices on the trigger?
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Love the new charging handle and trigger that are coming out. The charging handle to looks to be a perfect size. I thought the original one was a little large, but the redesigned one looks perfect. Can't wait until these come out...hopefully in red. Keep up the awesome work HBi!
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Thanks HBi.
Excellent! I'll wait and order a skeletonized trigger at the end of the month.
Thanks again for the reply!
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Delta triggers and charging handles are up on the HBI website!
Just ordered one today.
Looking forward to installing with the reduced weight spring kit.