The Original CZ Forum

CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ82 & CZ83 CLUB => Topic started by: LusoDragoon on May 21, 2005, 02:09:26 PM

Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on May 21, 2005, 02:09:26 PM: Took some of my guns to the range today.

Bersa .380 - No problems with ammo (CCI Lawman & Remington JHP 88gr.)

1979 Bulgarian Makarov - No problems with ammo (50 Federal FMJ & 50 S&B FMJ). Suprisingly acurate @ 10 feet and pretty close to the CZ83 accuracy.

Cz 83 - (50 PMC FMJ & 40 CCI Lawman & Win JHP 85gr)

Win JHP 85gr - Had a FTF with a 10 round magazine loaded to capacity. It happened on the last two rounds. Loaded only 8 rounds and no more FTFs for the remainder 40 rounds.

PMC FMJ & CCI Lawman - Had FTF with every single magazine regardless of whether they were loaded with 8 or 10 rounds. It always happened on the last two rounds.

Any ideas on what is going on?
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: KingPolymer-III on May 21, 2005, 02:14:40 PM: I have never had a problem with my CZ83s feeding. This is very strange.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on May 21, 2005, 02:41:19 PM: I was able to reproduce the problem with snap caps.

(http://tinypic.com/5b2r1f)

Once it failed to feed but the slide was almost closed. When I pressed the trigger and nothing happened, I thought it was a dud. I removed the magazine (it was empty), turned the gun sideways on its axis (ejection port facing up), pulled the slide but no round was ejected. To my surprise there were two rounds stuck inside.

BTW: and a separate issue. the factory recoil spring has a "gripper coil" or both ends have the same diameter?
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: KingPolymer-III on May 22, 2005, 10:56:00 AM: I have thought about this and really don't know, its the first time I have encountered a problem like this. Perhaps you need to send it back to CZ. ? I am waiting to see what others will say.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on May 22, 2005, 11:48:36 AM: Cleaned the mags. Bought different ammo (Independence & Winchester & CCI/Speer Gold Dot). I will give it another try on Wednesday, before calling CZ (or the dealer that sold it to me).
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: Dos on May 22, 2005, 12:31:46 PM: Is there someone with another magazine you could borrow to possibly eliminate the mags as the culprit? The last two loaded rounds malfunctioning sounds suspicious.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: Walt-Sherrill on May 22, 2005, 12:58:08 PM: It may be, too, that you recoil spring is getting weak from use, and no longer has the ooomph needed to close the slide.

How old/many rounds on your recoil spring?
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on May 22, 2005, 01:06:43 PM: Quote
Quote:
How old/many rounds on your recoil spring?

The gun is NIB. Total of +-130 rounds fired (40 rounds win 85gr HP, 50 PMC, 40 Speer Lawman).
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: KingPolymer-III on May 22, 2005, 02:01:00 PM: One of my 83's has at least 10,000 rounds through it and has the original spring, so its an exceptionally well built gun. Whatever the cause, don't worry, it will be resolved, either by CZ or by you.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: Dos on May 22, 2005, 02:28:33 PM: I'm not sure if I fully understand your photo demo so bear with me.....

Your reproduction photo, with snap caps, appears to show the slide back and an unextracted spent round. If that's been the case, it is possible for the next round to slam into it and glance off above and to the rearward side of the partially unextracted spent case. Most of the time, the fired round will stovepipe sideways as the extractor prematurely turns it loose and the next round slams into it, but I have also seen them lodge off to the side many times in other autos. In this scenario you are looking at an extraction problem.

If you are trying to show a live round that will not chamber, then your feed ramp may be in need of polishing and or as Walt indicated the recoil spring could be undersprung. You can check the bullets for nicks or gouges when you chamber them manually This will indicate any feed ramp binding problem. This is all premature speculation and we need to take it one step at a time. Keep reporting and I'm sure it will get resolved
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on May 22, 2005, 04:46:08 PM: Quote
Quote:
Your reproduction photo, with snap caps, appears to show the slide back and an unextracted spent round.

The photo is not a reenactment . It happened during "cycling". After I started this thread, I decided to cycle "snap caps" to see what would happen. On my first "cycling" it happened. It is actually a failure to feed rather than a failure to extract. The "spent" snap cap extracted fine. What you see is a "snap cap" not chambering because the other round still partially in the magazine is pushing it up.

During the shooting session the round never got anyway inside the chamber. It would get stuck between the round in the mag and the top of the slide.

Something like this only the slide is not fully back and the round is positioned on a more pronounced angle.

(http://tinypic.com/5bqlud)

I will take my digital to the range coming Wednesday just in case. Hopefully, I will not need to document anything.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: KingPolymer-III on May 22, 2005, 04:54:54 PM: I am stumped.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: Dos on May 22, 2005, 05:57:59 PM: OK then, it's possible that the mag lips are too loose allowing the next round to fly up too quickly misaligning the chambering round.

Also with a full mag there is more tension on the rounds, holding them more firmly against the top of the mag. It stands to reason then, that when you get down to the last two rounds there is less spring tension holding them firmly against top of mag and they are flying up too fast and causing FTF. HTH
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on May 22, 2005, 06:59:19 PM: I'll will post again on Wed. Hopefully, it is just a new gun thing ...
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: KingPolymer-III on May 23, 2005, 06:22:10 PM: Please let us know because the curiousity is killing me.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: Unregistered(d) on May 25, 2005, 12:11:46 AM: Only FTF Ii ever had was with CZ-83 in 9mm Mak and Wolf ammo, runs great on Fiocchi and Brown Bear. Right now, my other CZ-83 in .380 eats a steady diet of MiWall reloads and WWB without hickups. .
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: troublemaker71 on May 26, 2005, 02:06:15 AM: Had the exact same problem with a NIB CZ83 .380, reproduced the problem with several types of ammo, cleaned and recleaned the gun and the mags to no avail, etc. Happened with both magazines that shipped with the unit.

New mags (under warranty) from CZ greatly reduced the problem, which now only happens once every now and then. The problem will probably be totally gone once I get around to a new recoil spring.

Was a real bummer as I was sold on the gun's reliability as reported at this forum. I'm still a believer, but suspect a run of 83's went out with bad magazines.

Does your 83 fling brass into outer space?

Tristan
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on May 26, 2005, 08:30:35 PM: Went to the range today.

Fired 40 rounds of Indepencence FMJ - no problems.

Fired 40 rounds of Winchester FNJ - no problems.

Fired 40 rounds of CCI/Speer Gold Dot - it jammed twice on the last round

1st FTF
(http://tinypic.com/5e7te0)

2nd FTF
(http://tinypic.com/5e7tr4)

It has improved quite a lot ... but I'm still not happy with the 2 jams on the gold dots.

@troublemaker
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but suspect a run of 83's went out with bad magazines

Which is the production year for your CZ ( also check the Hit Pattern Data Chart). Mine is 2003.
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Does your 83 fling brass into outer space?

I haven't notice it ...
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new recoil spring

Where can I get a new recoil spring ... Wolff does not cater for the CZ83
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: troublemaker71 on May 30, 2005, 01:37:36 AM: 2003 production

Call CZ and they will probably send you a recoil spring or give you a quote on one.

Just offhand I'd attribute the two jams to a dirty gun after firing the previous 80+ rounds, but would still approach CZ with a request for two new magazines since the problem occurs with the last round and not randomly. Try to get them to throw in a recoil spring (extras will come in handy in the future, I imagine).

Tristan
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: OMNICROMM on May 30, 2005, 12:28:29 PM: Well i primarly use S&B FMJ for my CZ 83 and she loves it, but i like to use the Speer Gold Dot too, but with this ones i have some problems too, there is not a big problem but anyway if the gun is no properly clean!! the bullet stock when i load the gun or it have some FTF nothing big!! but there is a problem, at the ranch when i have that problem i clean the gun put some oil and after that it will continue working properly before read here this i didnt think it have to be a big deal, but now i am little consern about it!!

Have nice day

Alex
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: sewagner on June 22, 2005, 12:56:07 PM: I just got a CZ 83 and it did terrible with federal Premium hollow points
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: n-106RR196LIB on June 23, 2005, 03:18:27 PM: My CZ 83 feeds, fires and extracts everything BUT as with any blowback you must keep the mags clean. powder residue builds up in the mag body and drags on the mag spring. Clean them thoroughly and then drylube the insides of the mag body.
Title: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: LusoDragoon on June 25, 2005, 06:31:16 PM: Went back to the range today. This time my CZ83 performed flawlessly, i.e. no FTF this time. Used Independence FMJ, Win FMJ and Rem JHP 88 gr.

The Makarov continues to impress me: 200 hundred rounds and not a single failure.
Title: Re: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: deltablade on August 18, 2016, 08:14:32 AM: I have the same problem with a used CZ I bought at Gander Mountain,

have sent pics to CZ so maybe there can help
(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag113/1deltablade/IMG_5444_zpsjajm9vsg.jpg) (http://s1301.photobucket.com/user/1deltablade/media/IMG_5444_zpsjajm9vsg.jpg.html)(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag113/1deltablade/IMG_5443_zpsylescgjt.jpg)[/URL[URL=http://s1301.photobucket.com/user/1deltablade/media/IMG_5442_zpskqqopzvu.jpg.html](http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag113/1deltablade/IMG_5442_zpskqqopzvu.jpg) (http://s1301.photobucket.com/user/1deltablade/media/IMG_5443_zpsylescgjt.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cz 83 .380 Failure To Feed
Post by: JoePfeiffer on August 31, 2016, 03:56:55 PM: The 82 and 83 use the same recoil springs -- I went ahead and got the shooting pack with three different strengths so I could decide which I liked (I wound up with the strongest they had, which tames its snappy recoil done at the cost of making it harder to work the slide).

When I've had getting problems it's been the sloppy lips others have mentioned.

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