The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ BREN => Topic started by: marcoc on March 23, 2016, 07:53:34 PM
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Ever since I SBR'd the Evo, I had said to myself that it should be sufficient for the moment as far as CZ's guns are concerned. It ain't happening. I just succumbed to something I have eyed from the time it was introduced...I just ordered a Bren and the funkier stock from eBay (I plan to pin a Spartan 3 on the Bren to make it street legal). Now, what is this retro magazine kit? If I purchase the kit, will it make me shoot better? What other magazines can I use with that adapter. Thanks.
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Hello marcoc. The retro magazine kit from CZ is just the Euro magwell and magazines that insert/release somewhat similar to an AK. The Bren comes with the NATO (AR-15) type magwell (here in USA). I have both and the NATO is faster release/reload ---- but I wanted both types just to have them. I don't know for sure, but I thought I read somewhere HK G36 mags would fit the Euro magwell too ????
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Thanks AK today....I'll stick with the AR15 mags for the meantime then.
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Bren is here....deciding whether to pin the can or file a form 1. And of course, I just read that another part is needed to install a stock. Just ordered one from CZ.......this never stops.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/marcoc74/Bren.jpg)
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Looking really good.
IMO, form 1 is the way to go to get the most out of this weapon, despite drawbacks:
Drawbacks of form 1:
-$200 fee
-Gov't registration
-Add'l receiver engraving
-Needing batf pre-approval/paperwork before taking weapon across state lines
-Others cannot have weapon in possession w/o you present (unless they are also listed on the trust)
-Secured storage required when not with you for same reasons as above.
-More difficult to sell, legally transfer since now cost +$200 instead of the usual $20 ffl I pay
Otherwise, Form 1 is a win all around...
Perhaps I'm a curmudgeon, but I always assume a degree of ignorance of LE too as it relates to "pistols" (legally defined) based upon systems originally designed as rifles. A piece of batf paperwork, IMO, saying my weapon is legal in current configuration lowers stakes if keeping secured in your vehicle, etc.
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Good views on options to make this street legal. Thanks. Ill consider these when I make the decision in a few days.
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You bet. W/ latest batf ruling regarding a pistol tube touching your shoulder making it instantaneously an illegal "rifle,: permanently and irrevocably, is my personal main sell for sbr vs "pistol" configuration.
For drawback w/ SBR/form 1, I forgot 922r requirement too.
The only way, technically, to make your "rifle" legal after above scenario (as I understand it) is to legally register as an SBR, and then file the paperwork to deregister it and return it to a pistol...
Not saying any of this actually has a degree of common sense to it, or that I agree with it, but it does appear to be the rules of the game and law of the land since Congress granted, in this case, the bureaucrats at the BATF the ability to legislate...
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CZ is supposed to be coming out with a kit; they have to make all the carbines they're importing 922r compliant, so the parts are here. Uncertain when the kits going for sale -- SBR kits for the Bren, just like w/ the EVO. Some members here have sbred, so there may be some other parts fabricators out there they can point you to.
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It'll probably be a few months before the kits come out. The kit for the Scorpion took sometime because of parts delay. In the meantime, I have been replacing as many parts as I can with US made ones, sights, take down pins, muzzle brake, charging handle, cheek riser, fore grip, etc. Some, unfortunately, may not even be in compliance with the requirement but you do what you can.
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Has anyone found a place to order Bren carbines yet?
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I would suggest contacting CZ-USA directly to see where they are going.
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Would contacting them by phone tomorrow and just asking for a list of several dealers getting the first shipments be the best method?
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Hello marcoc. The retro magazine kit from CZ is just the Euro magwell and magazines that insert/release somewhat similar to an AK. The Bren comes with the NATO (AR-15) type magwell (here in USA). I have both and the NATO is faster release/reload ---- but I wanted both types just to have them. I don't know for sure, but I thought I read somewhere HK G36 mags would fit the Euro magwell too ????
Is it true that the euro magwell supports G36 mags? While AR mags are ubiquitous it would be nice to have my G36 mags be usable in something else as well.
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Gone back to my original intent.....permanently pinned and welded suppressor to make it street legal. Took a couple of hours as I had to "excavate" the pin from the barrel extension...also had a hole drilled a bit off from where it should be. So it's again, not that pretty but it should work.
Before:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/marcoc74/35e0e6e5-a9f7-4c4f-961a-d7b4202f48f8.jpg)
After:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/marcoc74/19b09ea5-7e4c-4fe5-aa3e-b4f03a7df546.jpg)
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Trying out optics, the Lucid P7. I can now use the Bren as barbels.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/marcoc74/6e72aeed-759d-4cd4-af41-f8a4591f172f.jpg)
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And now, we are going to the range.....to see if my athritic hands can hold this thing steady long enough to pull the trigger.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/marcoc74/Bren9.jpg)
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I like a bipod ... Sorry for the crappy picture, but I've had my stamp for a couple weeks and just got my parts and was in a hurry to get to the range to try it out before it got dark!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/kimberkid/Toys/NFA/IMG_13161.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/kimberkid/Toys/IMG_1316a.jpg)
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You're right about a bipod. This is a heavy firearm and needs some form of rest for extended period shooting. I ordered one from IMI. It looks like the grip pod the Czech army (I think) is using. Just a note on the stock, I think we have now access to two types, one fixed/folding and the other collapsible/folding with a clip on cheek riser. I can get a good enough cheek weld with the former if I am wearing ear protection/muffs. The latter, I cannot seem to get a good one with or without the clip on riser. I looked around for extra risers I had and what works is the magpul AK riser, both the .5 and .75 height variant. Again, it all depends on the height of your sight, your cheeks' shape and the ear protection you are using.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a6/ac/91/a6ac91259e273739e38be29273963703.jpg)
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/4/4b/CZ-805.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130612153757)
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The CZ806 Bren drops weight by 1.1 lbs... It appears to be mainly from the receiver. Remember that the 805 bren was originally designed for a polymer upper receiver, so the 805 has a lot of extra aluminum in the upper that just adds weight: http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1083&page=3
That extra, unnecessary weight was stripped w/ the 806 upgrade. Worth noting that the weight difference between the m4a1 and the bren is pretty much nothing after the upgrade to the 806, which is interesting considering piston guns always have that excess weight for the piston vs the DI ones w/ just tubes...
All w/ 16" barrels.
Colt AR6720 carbine w/ lightweight barrel is listed at 6.2 lbs.
Colt LE6920 carbine w/ m4 profile barrel is listed at 6.9 lbs.
Colt AR6721 carbine w/ heavy barrel is listed at 7.3 lbs.
CZ805 bren pistol is listed at 6.7 lbs (no stock and short barrel) per CZUSA.
CZ805 bren carbine is listed at 8.02 lbs per CZUSA.
(http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/czech_republic/weapons/cz_805_bren_a1/pictures1/CZ_805_Bren_A1_assault_rifle_Ceska_Zbrojovka_Czech_Republic_Army_defence_industry_military_technology_004.jpg)
So taking 1.1 lbs off of the carbine, puts the CZ806 in at 6.92 lbs.
(http://www.janes.com/images/assets/293/55293/1643507_-_main.jpg)
Do note that the CZ806 does appear to have a shorter barrel than the 805 carbine, and barrel appears to be heavier profile from visuals, so probably not much, a few ounces, change in weight of the 16" lightweight vs 12" heavy.
(http://www.altair.com.pl/process/hotlink/files/news/photos/17/17650/bren23.jpg)
Slightly longer (~1" so, ~12" barrel which is great for suppressor use/balance not so w/o) the 805 pistol:
(http://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/cz-bren-806703913605-1.jpg)
I have a grip pod on one of my galils and posted this previously -- in brief, they're a good compromise (thinking about adding a front hand stop between grip pod and end of rail actually; otherwise evaluation hasn't changed...) BUT holding onto like the dude in the marcoc's picture above isn't exactly the best mode of use insofar as ergos go... W/ pressure switches, it might be an okay compromise but not ideal.... Also, don't forget that monopoding on a mag should not cause feed issues (if it does, symptom of something else wrong IMO) and will allow you get a lower prone than grip pod will -- for instance, still plenty of clearance between mag bottom and ground w/ grippod w/ galil 35 round OE mags; probably the same would apply here with 40 round magpuls too (someone w/ those 40s want to check and post back?)...:
I use Magpul VFG stubbies on a number of my guns. They are good as hand stops too. Never bought into the AFG hype.
Unsure what's "hype" about the AFG? If you want to bash the exaggerated C clamp grip, go ahead but the AFG's utility isn't just w/ that grip...
On my Troy/NEA railed VZ, I run the AFG with a Gas Pedal thumb rest. Basically it equates to a standard rifle grip with a firmer, more ergonomic hold on the rifle, and you can do elbow out or down, but I prefer down and think it meshes better with angles and force, etc. W/ Bonesteel, I'd probably just use the AFG due to wider railed lower and solid upper edge of side rail for similar thumb placement...
I look at the AFG as basically being the same hold across all weapons even if not AFG configured -- palm up and thumb forward vs knuckles and thumb forward. For me, this is important.
Magpul did a good slideshow when they released the AFG on the whys: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/02/new-magpul-afg-angled-foregrip/
I agree w/ pretty much everything here regarding the C clamp grip: http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/07/02/curing-the-tactical-turtle/
And here as well -- and agree that there are portions of this technique like the AFG and mounting stock on your pec rather than shoulder that help w/ weapon control (and slightly rolling your shoulders forward helps too): http://loadoutroom.com/5695/the-over-exaggerated-c-clamp-grip-hype-or-not/
Another good read: http://kitup.military.com/2011/11/afg-vertical-grip-or-no-grip.html
And using the vertical grip optimally is a lot like an AFG anyways: http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/how-to-hold-an-ar15-foregrip/
(http://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/foregrips-3.jpg)
And here's a great read on the whys of a grip pod: http://www.defensereview.com/the-grip-pod-system-vertical-foregripbipodweapon-stabilizer-is-it-a-viable-option-for-your-tactical-carbine/
Ultimately everyone has preferences and like any choice your foregrip is a compromise.
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Thanks for the links. It'll probably be sometime before we see an 806...in any case, lifting these rifles is my only form of exertion these days!
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Dual purpose device. :)
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Hey Armoredman...I need a spotter! ;D
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Drive one down, amigo, drive one down, got a nice free public range right around the corner. :)